She said: 'You finally understand what it's like!'

[Sunnygirl1]

Hello, my friend who is originally from Ukraine and has lived in the UK for 15 years asked me to ask some lovely objective impartial people on here about this situation.

Her friend has applied for a refugee help UK - Ukraine Scheme and is waiting for her UK Visa in Poland since the beginning of April.

Some Ukrainians have already arrived in the UK and had a lovely welcome from their hosts and are very grateful to Boris Johnson & the UK government for this chance to escape this awful war and to save their and their children's health & lives. My friend A asked her friend M how they liked it here in the UK.

М: It's lovely for them here in the UK but, of course, they miss Ukraine and their usual peaceful predictable home life there.

A: Of course. It wasn't a planned holiday for them. They miss their daily home life and peace in Ukraine. It wasn't a planned holiday for them to enjoy, to feel relaxed and calm. They are very stressed about their houses/flats not being bombed, burnt, or destroyed by rockets, shelling, or fire.

M: Now you finally understand it!

А: Do you think I didn't understand it? Are you serious or are you joking?

My friend A felt like it was a passive-aggressive sarcastic answer & totally unfair towards her.

1. My friend A encouraged her friend M to leave the dangerous war in Ukraine with her 2 children (her husband wasn't allowed to leave as well as all men between 18 - 60 in case they are needed for a full national mobilization).

2. My friend A and her British husband were helping her friend M & her 2 children to apply for visas online while she was going on a very dangerous journey by train (during a risk of shooting, shelling, and God forbid rockets killing people etc) from Ukraine to Poland.

3. She offered some financial help and was planning (and will help) to help her morally & financially how/with everything she could while she is waiting for this horrible war to end (hopefully this year) so she can live in peace in the UK where her children can start school within 1 month or so after they finally receive their refugee visas & get here.

How do you see this situation? Was it just a very inconsiderate thing to say during a very stressful time or is there more to it than just being unkind?

My friend A let her friend's M words go but told me what her friend M told her was totally unacceptable, rude & wrong.

What is your opinion on this and how would you feel if you were told that by your friend in a similar situation? Thank you.

Friend M is right. She’s experienced a catastrophic change in her life that most people will never experience unless they have been forced to flee their countries and become refugees. Friend A is tone deaf and lacks self awareness.

My opinion would be that M is bloody stressed about her whole life being turned upside down.

Your friend A really needs to get over herself. Ridiculous overreaction.

@BeyondMyWits · 09/05/2022 11:24
My opinion would be that M is bloody stressed about her whole life being turned upside down.

Of course, no one disputes it is an extremely stressful unexpected situation (like many stressful and extreme life events can be).

My friend A said that she would never ever say anything like it to any of her friends in any stressful situation. It's a passive-aggressive answer subconsciously blaming my friend A for what has happened as well and not being fair to her, not showing the gratitude she deserves for everything she was and is trying to help her with.

My friend A does understand what has happened and there is no need to belittle or mistreat her in a passive-aggressive way whatsoever however stressful/awful the situation can be/is.

M is quite justifiably angry and upset and probably suffering from PTSD, and is lashing out because she doesn't have the skills to manage it any other way.
A has done nothing wrong and will.need support to support M. Hugely sensitive and difficult all round. Contemplating similar in my own life (hasn't happened yet but my oldest friend is about to let a family of 6 Ukrainians live with her and her husband and I'm worried about all of them).

@Arrivederla · 09/05/2022 11:33
Your friend A really needs to get over herself. Ridiculous overreaction.

So how would you personally feel if you were in friend A's place and were told that?

My friend A has never shown it but she felt it was very unfair words towards her from her friend M based on how much she and her husband were and are involved in helping her in this situation and I persinally agree with her.

Your friend A certainly is making this all about her, isn't she? Ridiculous overreaction to a offhanded, irrelevant comment from a stressed and devastated victim of war. A needs to get over herself.

heldinadream · 09/05/2022 11:37
M is quite justifiably angry and upset and probably suffering from PTSD, and is lashing out because she doesn't have the skills to manage it any other way.
A has done nothing wrong and will.need support to support M. Hugely sensitive and difficult all round. Contemplating similar in my own life (hasn't happened yet but my oldest friend is about to let a family of 6 Ukrainians live with her and her husband and I'm worried about all of them).

Thank you for your empathy and a very fair and balanced answer.

So friend A is upset because a woman who has just survived getting two children out of a war zone on a train that might be bombed at any time was a bit snippy with her?

I'm sure friend M is grateful for friend A's support in getting out, but she can hardly be expected to show it in every interaction every day. Her life has been torn apart. Sometimes (if it was me, it would be all the time) she's going to be a bit pissed off about that.

I can’t see where M blamed A for anything.

Also not sure how A can full understand what M has been through, because (as I understand it) A didn’t go through the same thing. And maybe when M arrived, A really didn’t get it and said some insensitive things herself. That comment would suggest at one point, she didn’t get it.

Not sure why your friend is so offended by that.

and not being fair to her, not showing the gratitude she deserves for everything she was and is trying to help her with.

Tbh, this comment comes across as ‘this woman from a war torn country is simply not grateful enough for how wonderful I am’.
That’s really uncomfortable.

Your friend A is putting her own feelings ahead of the feelings of someone who has gone through an incredibly upsetting and disorientating life experience. This is understandable but not ok.

Also, don't underestimate how language barriers can affect communication in this sort of situation; even if M speaks very good English there are nuances which non-native speakers will often struggle to see. She may not have realised that her comment came across like that.

@BlueKaftan · 09/05/2022 11:22
Friend M is right. She’s experienced a catastrophic change in her life that most people will never experience unless they have been forced to flee their countries and become refugees. Friend A is tone-deaf and lacks self-awareness.

What would your answer (even to yourself), feelings, words, and inner reaction be if you were in friend A's place?

Is M not being grateful enough? Is that the real problem? A wants gratitude. M wants her life back.

@Arrivederla

What would your personal reaction/inner voice feeling and comment be if you were in the place of friend A and heard it?

@PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/05/2022 11:50
Is M not being grateful enough? Is that the real problem? A wants gratitude. M wants her life back.

A prefers open, honest, respectful & healthy communication without a passive-aggressive style which doesn't come across as grateful when it's passive-aggressive.

Of course, M is psychologically traumatized and A has never doubted or undermined it.

How would you personally react to that comment?

Having just read the first post, I'd assume there's some back story.

A's comments about it not being a holiday are a weird one to make to someone who's currently fleeing their homeland. I a rally find A quite patronising.

And the "you finally get it" I'd assume is based on some prior stupid comment from your friend where she's minimised the trauma of fleeing a wartorn country vs her own choice to come to the UK because she'd like to

A sounds really quite awful to this woman.

M said something. Explicitly. It wasn’t passive aggressive it was straight to the point.

A has taken it as blame and unhappy because she feels M doesn’t communicate as a wants her to.

Thats entirely down to A and her projections.

If I were A. My thought would be that at some point I had said something insensitive or come across as though I thought I knew what their situation was like when I clear didn’t. I would feel a little bad, that that’s how I had come across to this woman.

I would be thinking about my own behaviour. Not picking apart M because they don’t do things exactly how I want them done.

Perhaps M was simply meaning that A understands that getting out isn't the end of the worry.
Previously the focus was all about getting out and there was a sense of relief when that happened but just because it's nice in the UK doesn't mean all is okay?

The use of the word holiday is a bit odd. I would agree that a slight language barrier is an issue here as is the format of communication which doesn't allow for tone.

I think it just needs to be let go as a bit of confusion in a stressful situation and an olive branch held out to smooth over it.
I don't really understand the angst and think A does need to realise hurt feelings are pretty minor compared to the reality faced by people in the Ukraine and swallow her pride to continue to support a traumatized friend

It's a passive-aggressive answer subconsciously blaming my friend A for what has happened Jesus that's some ability to make herself the centre of the universe. It's not about her!! as well and not being fair to her, not showing the gratitude she deserves for everything she was and is trying to help her with.+ oohh so the friend, stuck in Poland, life on hold, life in tatters, isn't GRATEFUL enough.

What would your answer (even to yourself), feelings, words, and inner reaction be if you were in friend A's place? I'd do a little self reflection and see if I'd previously come across as a dick to warrant such a comment.

A prefers open, honest, respectful & healthy communication without a passive-aggressive style which doesn't come across as grateful when it's passive-aggressive and yet she felt the need to give a sermon on how its so hard for Ukrainians currently fleeing war TO HER FRIEND WHO IS A UKRAINIAN CURRENTLY FLEEING WAR

My thought would be that at some point I had said something insensitive or come across as though I thought I knew what their situation was like when I clear didn’t
Yes, I'm suspecting some "when we moved to the UK..." style comment from ops friend

I would remind myself that I was dealing with someone who had suffered a massive trauma (plus take possible language difficulties into account) and cut them a bit of slack.
I would try not to put my feelings ahead of theirs.

Is there a big back story here? If not, I'm struggling I'm afraid.

How would I react personally? Well tbh I can't really work out why A's so cross. I don't think anyone can possibly 'get' what it's like to suddenly become a refugee and flee across a continent unless they've experienced it.

Andromachehadabadday · 09/05/2022 11:47
I can’t see where M blamed A for anything.
Also not sure how A can full understand what M has been through, because (as I understand it) A didn’t go through the same thing. And maybe when M arrived, A really didn’t get it and said some insensitive things herself. That comment would suggest at one point, she didn’t get it.

A has gone through a traumatic experience in her childhood herself. It wasn't war. Her mum stayed in abusive & dangerous relations with an alcoholic man for 7 years so she knows what it's like and got through it by working on herself and never told any of her friends before her counseling or after they didn't understand her what it was like for her.

An empathetic solid person with good morals doesn't necessarily need to be in a dangerous war/extreme stressful situation to understand how traumatic this event is.

A is not offended. She is really surprised to hear it. M's words sound like blame when A did nothing wrong but has helped her and is helping her. These insensitive words from M have put A in a position to question their possible close future friendship. She will still help as a person with good morals but she won't feel the same about it.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/05/2022 12:05
How would I react personally? Well tbh I can't really work out why A's so cross. I don't think anyone can possibly 'get' what it's like to suddenly become a refugee and flee across a continent unless they've experienced it.

A is not cross. She was just very surprised to hear that.

I disagree with this. Any person with empathy can understand any traumatic life event and doesn't need to necessarily go through them themselves.

The way you're defending A as a person of "good morals" etc reads very much like you're A. If you are just own it.

You'd still be overreacting though.