Sad about no proposal - 6 years and baby on the way

[AmelieBear]

Me and my boyfriend have been together for 6 years, when we first got together he used to hint about proposing all the time. He even asked me once when drunk and I said of course but only if he asked me sober :) that was 5 years ago now. I have always said to him I would only want him to propose just to know he meant it/more romantic. We agreed a while ago now that as we had always wanted kids we would try after I turned 35, and now we have a little one on the way (I’m 16 weeks). I’ve never been desperate for marriage but always made it clear if he asked me I would say yes. We’ve also talked before about how much sense it makes legally/financially when we have both a baby and house. But it just never happens. I forget for ages, like I said I was never crazy for a wedding but I just assumed we would naturally have a low key one one day, but then something will happen, tonight it was 2 people on TV talking wistfully about their honeymoon, and I ended up in tears because I realised I will never get to have that proper baby free honeymoon I once just assumed I would get one day. Sometimes I convince myself he can’t love me anymore.

What do I do? Or how do I not feel shit? Or has anyone done a wedding and really really good honeymoon with a baby in tow?
should I just give up/get annoyed at him/give him an ultimatum? Am I being unreasonable to feel this crap?

If you buy together, keep your flat in your name and rent it out. This and your salary put you on a more even placing with his. Both save for the deposit and buy together when you can. Do not sign over your house to him, even if he says he'll pay more of the mortgage payments, if you broke up next year, he would then take half your flat.

Marriage isn't the be all and you can still get screwed over with that. Protect yourself, make sure you are paying into a pension, always have enough saved that you can leave (even if you don't want to) and dropping to 3/4 days for a few years is ok (you're having a baby, you should enjoy the time with them - they do grow so quickly), but don't give up work completely, this is true whether you marry or not. Your career will suffer and it's so much harder to restart with a big gap.

I really do think you need to discuss a few things e.g. both of your expectations on how the childcare etc will go. Double barrelled or your name is fine (not his). Yours is better and would open up a discussion I.e. "I've been thinking and without us being married I just don't feel happy with the baby not having just my name. I've heard it can cause lots of problems for me in the future." If you get married, the baby's name just changes with no issue, but if you want to change it to yours if you split for example, that is a lot harder and needs his permission which he is unlikely to give.

Don't be afraid to tell him how you feel about all this. What have you got to lose really? You should talk to him about your fears, life goals, plans for the future etc.

If nothing else, as others have said get wills set up and do not give him your flat!!

I agree with pp that if he out-earns you significantly he should be contributing more than 50%. I've been the major wage earner and the lesser, and in both cases we ensured the disposable income was the same for both parties. That's the only fair way of doing it when you share a life. So he should be paying more towards household bills.

Also, please don't, whatever you do, reduce your working hours when baby is born if you aren't married. You will take a financial hit (and from how he acts with finances it's only you that will be worse off, not him) and it could impact your longer term career prospects, pension etc. If you don't marry and later split up, it's only you that will affect, not him. Don't do anything that affects your income if you aren't married.

I agree with pp about surnames - the baby should only have your surname. Why would it have his? If you're going by tradition - it should have yours. He's led you along and is 'in control' when it comes to the marriage, keep this bit within your control. If you aren't married - he doesn't get to choose. (I also agree with pp that having a different surname to your children isn't a problem in practical terms - I was never once questionned at school / GP / airport etc etc, and have never met someone this has actually happened to. However, that isn't the point here).

His reluctance to get married shows he doesn't care (he knows how much this matters to you and that it makes sense financially), it means he was just paying lip service / stringing you along before, which means you won't have the same faith in him you might have. He needs to know this is serious and that this seriously makes you question whether you want to be with him. With that in mind, baby won't be having his surname and you won't be reducing your work hours or giving up your flat. And will be re-thinking if you want to stay together. His response to all of that should help you decide what to do next.

Its 2022, how are women still floating along like a rubber duck in the sea on the whim of selfish men, waiting for him to decide on the course of her life?

He's got absolutely no need to marry you. He's got everything he wants without being married. I imagine he's got thousands stashed away by now that he doesn't need to share with you. Its probably for the best he doesn't want to marry you because this way your property still belongs to you.

This isn't an equal partnership. Protecting yourself now doesnt appear to be marriage. It looks to me like you're better off not marrying him and protecting your asset for when you split up.

If you are not married you simply must NOT go down in your working hours or move out of/sell your flat, for the love of all that is holy!!

Legally you are a single mother with zero protection & he has ALL the cards/power here. You have made a mistake getting pregnant before getting married, and the fact that you did it intentionally is surprising, so you have to buckle down & protect yourself now.

I also agree hugely with the poster above who mentioned pro rata financial contributions. If full time nursery is £1200 a month, he pays as a proportion of his SALARY not half - like if he earns 90k and you earn 30k then his contribution is three times your contribution, £900 to your £300. That’s so important or you will personally slip into poverty or full financial dependency in no time. You simply can’t afford to pay half of his childcare costs.

Please continue working full time - yes it will suck, but he will have put you in that position by leaving you so vulnerable so place the blame where it belongs.

And make sure he KNOWS why you have to make these decisions to stay in the 1 bedroom flat and work full time with a tiny baby. There is a very easy solution, after all! Don’t silently put up with it.

Marriage is a legal contract which is designed to protect the family unit.

It's a very bad contract, in a business sense, for any more wealthy members of a couple. Or those with higher earning potential because they won't be having, or the primary carer of, children.

So it makes sense for men to be instinctively wary of marriage.

The nonsense of it being old fashioned and patriarchal, is so damaging to young women.

It's as old fashioned as women having babies is.

It's a romantic gesture because it is agreeing to a life long legal commitment to each other. Which is a huge thing to do.
The romance is not the staging of the scene, it's the action of the commitment.

Of course those women who are in positions of not requiring the legal protection may well not see it as important for them.

But this naive attitude ignoring the inherent vulnerability of women because of our reproductive role is leading to so much unhappiness for so many young women.

How many threads like this are there every week??

It's the old why buy the cow when you get free milk ...@AmelieBear step up and take control. There is nothing worse than living in limbo like this . Now is the perfect time to bring it up once and for all. You then know what you are facing.

I think you need to spell out to him “our getting married one day needs to be in the next 5 months - I’m going to leave it up to you to sort that by end of October”
If everything else is great and you haven’t mentioned or hinted at it for ages he’s probably thinking you’re not that bothered anymore. It needs to be on his radar. Then either he sorts it or he doesn’t and if he doesn’t then you know he doesn’t care and go your own way.

I’d like to know he really means it.

But you didn't want that before the baby? A baby is a much bigger commitment than marriage. How are finances going to work once you are on maternity?

Honestly I think you need to be practical now- ask him and sort a firm date relatively soon.

If he's says no then at least you know there is no future and can plan accordingly.

Please read the many threads on here from women who were a few years down the line from your position if you doubt the need to act.

@CJsGoldfish perhaps you could tell that to the women who collectively had the accrued unpaid child maintenance debt to them wiped in the past few years? A cool £10b total and that’s only the cms measured amount over a certain number of years. That’s the amount men haven’t paid in maintenance- marriage entitles a woman to a share of assets and pension, just having a baby entitles a woman to some child maintenance that might never be paid

Tell them what? That a 'proposal' is pointless? I thought I made that clear 🤷‍♀️

The whole idea of needing a 'proposal' because it shows committment but having a baby first which ties you together forever (and no getting out of that one no matter how you may feel later) is just silly.
If, however, you want a marriage, have a conversation and go do it. So many women just want a 'proposal' then are still in the same position years later with no marriage. Honestly, what's the point?

Not wanting marriage is fine. But leading someone on is cruel. That is the issue here.

Is he planning just to pay 2/3 of the new mortgage, or 2/3 of all bills? I agree the former gives him advantages if you split unmarried. The latter is fair and needs to include all child related expenses. As your relative incomes change, particularly if you cut back hours which seems a poor idea, so should the split.

Absent marriage and shared finances he should be making up all lost pension.

He just isn’t coming across here as a very thoughtful person.

We split things 50/50. He earns double what I do and of course when I am on maternity leave that will be a significant difference.

Why do you split costs equally when he earns twice what you do?

Only because we’re paying off my mortgage and the mortgage repayments are so low. When we first moved in together I rented out my place and moved in with him for 2 years and all was split based on income percentage.

This. He has had 6 years to marry you. But so did you. He clearly doesn't want to. Having a baby is a far bigger commitment. I think you need to be honest with yourself that he doesn't seem like he wants to marry you. At least you own your own home.

I should clarify on the bill split. When we first moved in together a few years ago I moved out of my flat and in with him for a couple of years, testing the water. We split based on income percentage. When he moved into my place and we were paying off my (small) mortgage, which he legally has no claim on, I said i felt it was fair we went 50/50 while there. That’s still my opinion and I stand by it. He’s paying half my mortgage. When we move again we will reshuffle the arrangement of course.

That’s really encouraging to hear about your wedding. Thank you x

Oddly I haven’t posted before. Must be someone with a similar predicament that I couldn’t find

I am sad about the romantic gesture, but the other thing that makes me worried is not being married and the lack of financial protection that gives me. Similar to your friends scenario. Bear in mind my career will be changed even if I go back full time, as it does for many women. Also if, god forbid, the worst happened, I am not legally his next of kin, not entitled to widows benefit from the state or his works life insurance and would be stuck with a baby to take care of alone and a big mortgage to pay off that i may not afford alone.

We have plenty of times, I thought I explained that above. He just always says he will do
it one day and wants to do
it properly but I am getting fed up now

Wanting to do it “properly at the perfect time”. I am fed up of there not being a single perfect time for 6 years. Annoyed I’ve had to complain to him about iT.

Thank you, this is such a helpful comment and yes, totally feels like you get my situation.

And yes, baby at 35 was always the deal, we felt it was the latest we could safely leave it and not have too stressful a time. Kids have always been a big priority for me. I just really didn’t expect to have got to this point and still feel like he’s unsure about marriage.

He has said all costs are his when I’m on Mat leave. He is good about that stuff. We only do 50/50 because I insisted in this place as he is paying my mortgage.

The stuff about wanting to do it properly and waiting for the time is pretty suspect, unfortunately. I'm not saying it isn't occasionally said in good faith, but there have been so many women on here over the years whose partners have kept them in line for years by dishonestly dangling the prospect of the perfect proposal over their heads.

Sometimes, when the woman starts asking too often, they move on to telling her they were planning to do it next week or on holiday or whatever and now they can't because she's ruined it. If you try and have a proper conversation with your partner now about getting married, and his response is along those lines, I think you'll have a definite answer.

I just wanted to know he really wanted it. If I asked I felt he would have felt pressured to say yes. I agree re: created equal, it’s just a silly thing

I hate that it might come to that, but I think you’re right.
And yes, personally I’ve never had a big desire for a big day, barely care about how we do
it, but I’m really starting to worry we haven’t got there yet.

I don’t understand why in 2022 men still hold the power in terms of getting married. it must be a powerful feeling as a 25 or 35 year old man thinking this.

come on, if you want to marry tell him. If he says no there is your answer. You have had a child with him! Why can’t you ask him?