Boundary vs ultimatum..?

[PlayYourOwnKindOfMusic]

Can I just get my head around something here?

When does a boundary become an ultimatum?

I set a boundary with my boyfriend. He agrees with me and is happy with it but has taken a passive (avoidance) approach to dealing with it rather than an active (direct) approach in the hope this other person will take the hint for reasons I completely understand. It's been effective in reducing this other person's opportunity but not their intent or persistence.

However, the hint hasn't been taken and so, unfortunately, a more direct approach is necessary. He says he will but really hoped it wouldn't be necessary and I can tell he's not comfortable with it which I understand. He doesn't argue or fall out with anyone..

However, I'm not prepared for it to be a repeat conversation. I'm not prepared to just discuss and discuss again until the cows come home. He either takes a direct approach and puts a stop to it now or I'll walk away.

I want to make this crystal clear to him. If he isn't comfortable/can't/doesn't really want to put a stop to it for whatever reason, that's fine but I will end the relationship and walk away because the situation is not something I want to be live with.

How do I do that and make it clear without it sounding like an ultimatum?

I suppose I haven't really set a 'boundary' so far, just said it's something I'm not happy about and why. He agreed and said he'd put a stop to it but his efforts do far have only been partially successful and aren't realistically sustainable.

Thank you, Zilla

About6 yearsago I had an attractive women in her 40s who worked with me and my husband- she suddenly started an awful lot of texting and whatsapping only to him- he kept it quiet (says he knew I would be annoyed) and it was only by chance she bombarded him one afternoon when he was in the shower that I saw it-- and all the back messages -nothing dodgy, a lot of general chit chat and gossip and asking favours, requesting to get paid early etc and I don't think she fancied him even but this was a single mum who seemed insanely jealous judging by strange comments she made, of the fact we had a nice big home (rented) and a fairly decent income and she struggled to find a decent partner because her criteria was a bit rigid.

I honestly think she was doing it to personally piss me off, the 'look, he will jump if I ask him a favour' kind of thing, when she was effectively MY PA --- once I got wind I told my H he was to stop responding to her - forward any to me and to tell her she was fucking me off- it soon stopped and i dispensed with her services 6 months later. I suspect this lady OP is one of the 'all men have to fancy me ' breed and enjoys annoying you. I would come right to the point and tell your H he's going to have to be really direct with her and block her too on every device.

@Crikeyalmighty , he's not OP's H, he's her fella of 6 months

I personally would speak to her privately and ask her to STOP flirting with MY bf or you will no be longer friends with her.

How would she like it if you did the same with her bf?

I would defend and protect my love territory 100% :).

Luckily my husband is very good and never made me feel jealous, has never provoked me in that way making me try to protect our relations/fight for him and our love.

He made sure he protected me from his ex gf too.

He is not "complicit" in your toxic frenemy flirting with him, wtf.

You seem to think it's easier to stop her flirting than it is. Especially when you are partly responsible for keeping the "friendship" alive by hanging out with her all the time - you are as invested in keeping the peace in the social group as he is, otherwise you'd have stepped back from it.

@KirstenBlest You are right- I missed that bit- after that short amount of time then I think you have to leave him to deal with it OP. If you don't like the way he handles it then it doesn't bode well further down the line.

Crikey

Yes, that has described her well.

The message I sent her a couple of weeks ago, that she didn't respond to, was a response to the fishing message she had sent to him. He gave her a perfectly appropriate response but it wasn't the one she wanted. I also replied to her (it was something we'd talked about previously) saying that he'd shown me the message. He suggested I replied because then she'd know there were no secrets between us. Anyway, my message was sincere and genuine but probably was more the sort of response she was looking for from him.

She didn't reply and hasn't spoken to me since other than basic courtesy. She's no different with him though.

Me speaking to her wouldn't work. It would need to come from him.

I'm not jealous. I don't think he's interested in her. Women often flirt with him. It doesn't bother me. But her level of disrespect is something else.

I'd walk away from the group tomorrow but I have committed to something for the next three weekends. I'd be causing a lot of trouble for everyone else if I pulled put now.

I'd be happy to forgo the weekend away and they'd have enough time to find a temporary replacement for me for the next time they actually needed me but the next three weeks would mess things up for an awful lot of people if I pulled out. If she pulled out, she'd be missed by people on a personal level but it would have no impact on our commitments.

And it's quite clear from everything I've said that we are not 'hanging out all the time' 🙄

And as for stopping her, if he just walked away or repeatedly told her to stop or get off or go away then she'd get the hint eventually.

My post was initially to ask if it was appropriate to make it clear that, if he allows it to continue without telling her to stop or even just walking away, I will be ending the relationship.

as you have an upcoming event with her, then i'd make it clear that you don't want her encouraged by your partner and see what happens.
it may well stop anyway as not been out for a while. Or he may say something more stringly to stop her from doing it again. (like Please, i told you before to not do that). And what can she do if you are there, with him, as is girlfriend? if she does it when you are there, you can easily remark "blimey Jane, thats a bit full on" and pull her up on it.

then work out after weekend what to do about partner, based on how he acts. Him saying "please stop that" to someone really shouldn't throw all group dynamics into disarray - at worse surely she just leaves the group activity, which you say is no big deal

(i am imaging you are DUNGEON MASTER and therefore have the dice and rule books!)

i am imaging you are DUNGEON MASTER and therefore have the dice and rule books!

Haha, I might as well be! Not blowing own trumpet but many of the others frequently don't do events. I've never missed one because it can't happen without me. I almost treat it like a second job because of it.

Your post suggests pretty much what I'd decided to do anyway but I just wanted to give him a heads up first that that is where I am. I'll keep my next few commitments but, if it still happens and he doesn't put a stop to it, I'm out. He doesn't encourage her and he stays away from her but, if she gets close enough to him to do something, he let's it happen to avoid an awkward situation and because he knows it means nothing. But all the while she's looking at me smiling slyly over his shoulder or around at me.

It wouldn't bother me such if it weren't for the fact she looks at me while shes doing it and has made the comment about knowing he fancies her.

I've just remembered that I did actually tell him I'd say something if he didn't and I'm a lot less bothered about conflict than he is. It would take a lot for me to speak up but I don't have the same social niceties filter as he does.

And, I agree, asking someone politely to stop doing something shouldn't cause huge problems in the group!

I really don't understand why this is your boyfriends problem. He's not encouraging this woman, he's not leading her on. If anything, she's sexually harrassing him and you're blaming him for it.

He has told her directly to go away, I imagine he'll do it again. It sounds like he's trying to deal with it without blowing up the entire group. I don't really know what more you want him to do

If you don't mind confrontation why not give her the ultimatum? "Stop harassing my boyfriend or I'll leave and won't do XYZ anymore." She's the one you have a problem with, and it sounds like at least some of the group would be on your side.

Your boyfriend is not the one at fault here, and he's not colluding with her behaviour. Has it occurred to you that as much as you don't like it, it's worse for him?

You could have a quiet word with her DH

Can you start a new group with Dp and the few people that you get along with?

Sadly not, due to the nature of it. And everyone else is friends with them both

I mean, we could arrange nights out away from the rest of the group but not the event stuff.

What does the rest of the group think? I'd be highly uncomfortable if this was going on in my circle, and it would be her that I'd want to leave, not you!

Is there anyone in the group who would speak with her?

I think he probably did 'collude' initially . Not intentionally but because he didn't know what she was saying to me behind his back and he wasn't really bothered. He has felt that some of her behaviours are odd or crossed a line but he's not upset by them as such. Obviously, he doesn't want her approaching him from behind and stroking his back/hugging him from behind/touching him - which are areas she has strayed into and he didn't like.

When she stands right up close to him staring at him all doe eyed and stroking his arm, he has stared to move away or just avoided being in positions where she can do it. But she isn't picking up on the hint.

I said on previous thread that he and I had got a bit of a private joke one evening after something that had happened at the weekend. She inserted herself into that and just kept on and on... it was weird. He also thought it was weird but hadn't really put all of it together because she was (supposed to be) our friend and he generally sees the best in people that was the first time I'd really noticed tbh.

I don't know how many of the others would have noticed tbh. The guy she used to be all over noticed the change and commented on it to him. I'd noticed that she was all over him too and felt it was disrespectful to his wife but, as he went along with it, I just assumed that his wife was OK with it. On reflection, she wasn't like it with him when his wife was there.

But she used to tell me how much this other guy fancied her too. According to my boyfriend, he didn't and was just amused by it. She's making a fool of herself as much as anything.

So I don't know if others would notice. I guess they must do

I just think a clear message that it's unwelcome needs to come from the men. It's not for the women to manage the situation really. And it'll look to her like we are all just insecure women who feel threatened by her. When it isn't that. It's just rude and disrespectful.

We spoke about it. He agreed she was being weird (apparently someone else in the group has also noticed and commented on it to him). We haven't really seen this particular woman much over the past couple of months. Sometimes, she doesn't do anything. Sometimes she tries to be all over him. Someultimes she'll maintain a physical distance but look at him coyly. The last time, she touched him he told her directly to go away and sounded irritated. She giggled and stopped but it hasn't stopped her trying to do it again.

Otherwise, he has just dealt with it (on the 2 or 3 occasions we've seen her) by making sure he's always with me/at a distance from her. But that isn't sustainable in the long term.

OP, I'm sorry that a new relationship isn't as easy as it should be.

But I'm finding it difficult not to have quite a bit of sympathy for him.

You say that this started after Christmas.
And you said that (during the interim) you haven't seen her for a couple of months.
And that your BF has seen her maybe 3 or 3 times.
He flinched and told her to stop when she touched him.
He's sent her an text to tell her to stop and are it clear that he and you were in agreement.
He doesn't know about the comment regarding her closeness to his DC.
You still socialise
You still have a weekend away booked
You haven't told him explicitly that her behaviour stops or you will end the relationship.

I'm not sure what else you want him to do? He's told her in person. He's told her by text. He's obv reluctant to create drama that will impact the wider group - exactly the same as you.

If he knew that you're considering ending the relationship, then maybe he would risk a big row with her and accept the consequences. But it's unfair if you're not giving him all the info.

Apologies - bold fail!

Pretty much.

He flinched when I touched him because his first thought was "shit it's her". He was relieved it was me. And that isn't fair on him.

He put a text in the group chat. She replied to him privately. I read the message - it was clearly fishing for, as he put it, a personal endorsement. He gave her an appropriate, neutral response and suggested I also reply as it was something she and I had already talked about so the specifics were unnecessary anyway. I replied giving a genuine and sincere response but that was more in keeping with what she clearly wanted from him.

She didn't reply and hasn't spoken to me since. She was still gushy with him last week but he deliberately led me to sit nowhere near her and had little to do with her beyond normal friendliness. She still grabbed him for a hug as we left when he clearly wasn't going for one and completely ignored me.

I think you need to read what you've wrote here, about exactly what he is doing - which is a lot. I really don't understand what you want the poor guy to do, other than blow up the group and everyone potentially loses your activity.

He's not complicit in anything, and he's not putting your feelings above hers. He's being harassed.