Boundary vs ultimatum..?

[PlayYourOwnKindOfMusic]

Can I just get my head around something here?

When does a boundary become an ultimatum?

I set a boundary with my boyfriend. He agrees with me and is happy with it but has taken a passive (avoidance) approach to dealing with it rather than an active (direct) approach in the hope this other person will take the hint for reasons I completely understand. It's been effective in reducing this other person's opportunity but not their intent or persistence.

However, the hint hasn't been taken and so, unfortunately, a more direct approach is necessary. He says he will but really hoped it wouldn't be necessary and I can tell he's not comfortable with it which I understand. He doesn't argue or fall out with anyone..

However, I'm not prepared for it to be a repeat conversation. I'm not prepared to just discuss and discuss again until the cows come home. He either takes a direct approach and puts a stop to it now or I'll walk away.

I want to make this crystal clear to him. If he isn't comfortable/can't/doesn't really want to put a stop to it for whatever reason, that's fine but I will end the relationship and walk away because the situation is not something I want to be live with.

How do I do that and make it clear without it sounding like an ultimatum?

I suppose I haven't really set a 'boundary' so far, just said it's something I'm not happy about and why. He agreed and said he'd put a stop to it but his efforts do far have only been partially successful and aren't realistically sustainable.

More information is needed

Surely "deal with this now or I'm walking away" is an ultimatum? I think ultimatums are okay if you're at the end of your tether and it really is make or break. I wouldn't use it lightly.

Sounds more like an ultimatum than a boundary. A boundary is something that is focused on your life and what you will and will not tolerate, an ultimatum demands someone else does something, which it sounds like you are doing here.

If you say he's agreed to something but hasn't really put a stop to it then he hasn't really agreed to it but just saying the 'right thing' to keep you sweet ... so walk away now.

In my view if you need to 'set a boundary' then you probably aren't that compatible in the first place. Is it something like smoking, drinking or taking drugs? Lots of people (myself included!) might agree to 'try' to give up but probably won't.

What exactly has happened?

What are you not happy about?

What is he not doing that you have asked him to do to avoid further disagreement?

Sounds like a third person is involved which makes things more complicated but I don't think there is much difference between a hard boundary and an ultimatum. If someone transgresses a boundary you should withdraw from them. If you let them know this beforehand it's basically an ultimatum. I don't think there's a problem with either.

Sounds like he's got someone trying to hop on his dick and he's failing to shut it down actively?

His passive approach to this situation may actually give a clue to his general life approach. "It's not my fault, it's so-and-so doing it, not me" - putting himself in victim mode.

What would concern me is the possibility that you lay down a "Cut this flirtation off now or I'm gone" and he presents that to the flirter as "I'm sorry but my GF isn't happy with our friendship and I'm not allowed to talk to you any more." If he actually wants to make you feel happy and secure then he'd have already made it clear to this person that he isn't interested.

(All of the above is assuming you're asking for something most people would consider reasonable - not something controlling like asking him to drop a friend or family member because you dislike them.)

Yeah, I know.

I've posted before about it. We are part of a friendship group. He and I have been together for 6 months.

Since we got together, a woman in the friendship group has started flirting with him. She and I were previously close.

She's told me she knows he fancies her and that I'm lucky I'm her friend because she won't do anything about it. All the flirting has come from her - he doesn't flirt back. She watches me when she does it to see if I react. I don't.

It's escalated in the sense that she barely acknowledges me anymore. We are civil in front of others for the sake of the group but the friendship is gone.

I can only speculate as to her motivation.

We spoke about it. He agreed she was being weird (apparently someone else in the group has also noticed and commented on it to him). We haven't really seen this particular woman much over the past couple of months. Sometimes, she doesn't do anything. Sometimes she tries to be all over him. Someultimes she'll maintain a physical distance but look at him coyly. The last time, she touched him he told her directly to go away and sounded irritated. She giggled and stopped but it hasn't stopped her trying to do it again.

Otherwise, he has just dealt with it (on the 2 or 3 occasions we've seen her) by making sure he's always with me/at a distance from her. But that isn't sustainable in the long term.

I feel that sometimes he's let it happen not because he wants her to do it but because its the path of least resistance and won't disrupt the group dynamics. He's hoping she'll just tire of it if she gets no positive reaction from him - prior to him, her focus was one of the other men in the group. But that just means she keeps doing it and I'm not prepared to tolerate it until she gets bored. It's just disrespectful - she was supposed to be my friend FFS!

She's also made odd comments about how close she is to his adult kids. He doesn't know she's said this to me - apparently they feel more comfortable talking to her than either of their parents (in reality, she barely knows them and he'd be pissed off if he knew she was saying that especially as one of them finds her overbearing and doesn't actually like her).

As far as I'm concerned, he should shut it down. I would if a man was behaving like that towards me.

I guess it is ultimatum time 🤷🏻‍♀️

He's not actually doing anything 'wrong' but he's not doing the right thing either.

He's not painting himself as the victim. He just isn't interested and hopes she'll get bored before too long.

I don't think for a second she's trying to hop on his dick either. Nor does he. It seems to be some weird powerplay thing where she is trying to prove to me she could have him if she wanted rather than about him at all.

He has said that, if she carries on, he will say something directly but I feel that time is now. He also said himself that he wouldn't mention me just say that he doesn't like it and wants her to stop and that he finds it disrespectful.

HNRTT but, in substance, how is a boundary not an ultimatum? I wouldn't get too focused on semantics, rather if this is important then you might want to decide how long you are willing for a passive approach to be given before you act? You might want to reflect a little on your 'boundary' though you are entitled to have whatever boundaries you choose. FWIW, I am not anxious and would have no interest in someone flirting with a DP, nor would I allow them to end a relationship in which I was happy.

It feels like it's more about me than him and he thinks it is too. That she is using him to try and upset me maybe? Or that she just likes the idea of other women's men fancying her?

They've been friends for a little longer than I've known then both (she's been married 20 years) but this only started after he and I got together.

That she is using him to try and upset me maybe? Or that she just likes the idea of other women's men fancying her? -
I know some damaged or insecure people try to get self-esteem by flirting with people in relationships. If you care what someone else thinks then why would you end your relationship and give them what they want?

I'm not anxious. I don't think for a second that he is interested in her. Or that she is genuinely interested in him.

It's that her motivation seems to be solely getting one over on me and that we were quite close friends and she now won't speak to me other than public civility.

I just find her irritating and disrespectful and, tbh, I just don't want to see it.

If it turns out he's actually happy for it to continue then he isn't who I want to be with anyway.

I'm not willing to wait.

We'll be seeing her tomorrow and at the weekend, for the following two weekends and then a group of us are all going away together.

It would be more that I was just taking myself out of it.

I feel that sometimes he's let it happen not because he wants her to do it but because its the path of least resistance and won't disrupt the group dynamics. He's hoping she'll just tire of it if she gets no positive reaction from him - prior to him, her focus was one of the other men in the group. But that just means she keeps doing it and I'm not prepared to tolerate it until she gets bored.

I don't see the problem with his approach. Not everyone is happy with confrontation.

It's a bit weird that you're blaming him for his reaction to unwanted sexual advances. Would you tell a woman who had chosen to avoid a man who'd come on to her that actually, she should call him out and create a confrontation?

What is the problem that actually needs to be solved? You're not worried he'll actually respond to her. You just feel disrespected. Not saying her behaviour is acceptable but there's no concrete effect on you or your relationship (apart from your boyfriend getting repeatedly harassed, which you seem less concerned about than your ego getting hurt).

If you want to confront her about that why don't you do it yourself?

Some people are conflict-averse.

Trying to be helpful, you want to make decisions that will end your relationship. If you're not anxious and you trust your DP, that seems courageous. Let's hope you find another DP with whom you have as good or better relationship.

If this behaviour continues tomorrow and he doesn’t say anything to her, you would be better to end the relationship rather than allow the behaviour to carry on. He’s being very disrespectful towards you by not dealing with it. It sounds like he’s ok with you being upset by one of his friends which isn’t nice. You deserve to be treated so much better than this.

I get that some people are conflict averse but the current situation is that he would rather risk our relationship than tell her to stop.

There doesn't need to be conflict - he's already told her to "just go away will you" once but she thought he was joking - or chose to ignore his boundary. He sounded pissed off and last time we were out, I walked up behind him, put my hand on him and he flinched and said "Thank fuck it's you" when he turned round.

He also showed me a message she'd sent him privately responding to a question he'd asked in the group chat. He felt it wasn't inappropriate but was unnecessary and fishing for, in his words, a 'personal endorsement which she didn't get'. He scrolled up a bit too far and there were a few recent messages from her littered with 🥰 and ❤. I didn't read them and he hadn't responded to them. But ignoring her clearly isn't working.

It's not my place to put a stop to it unfortunately. And it wouldn't work. It would need to come from him.

There doesn't need to be conflict - he's already told her to "just go away will you" once but she thought he was joking - or chose to ignore his boundary. He sounded pissed off and last time we were out, I walked up behind him, put my hand on him and he flinched and said "Thank fuck it's you" when he turned round.

So he has told her explicitly to stop and it hasn't worked. And he's clearly rattled enough around her that he flinches when touched. And you want him to escalate the situation even more?

He's dealing with unwanted sexual advances in the way that works for him. You're not actually the victim here.

If my partner told me that I wasn't reacting strongly enough to put off a man who unnerved me and had already ignored me - I would be rethinking the relationship myself.

he would rather risk our relationship than tell her to stop.

Alternatively to give agency to your current position and help you understand yourself, you would rather end a relationship with someone you trust and you say you are not anxious because of uninvited behaviour by a third party. Up to you but own your decisions rather than trying to blame your DP. Many wouldn't but good luck.

I don't think I am the victim! But if a man was doing the equivalent to me - given that its a recent thing and someone well known to us both in a friendship group, I think I'd have said "what are you doing? Don't be a dick." By now. In fact I know I would because I have in the past.

The thank fuck it's you isn't because he's unnerved, it's because he knows he'd have to say something if she did it and he doesn't want to.

She's a friend. Or was. Been on weekends away together, slept over at her house etc. She's massively overstepping boundaries not a sexual predator!

Op is there any way you can turn this around mentally to the point where you can laugh at her? Or feel sorry for her? If you feel happy in the relationship and you know that he isn’t interested in her then can you change your mindset?

I do understand how you must feel, when I first got together with stbexh I hadn’t realised that a ‘friend’ in the social group was also after him. It turned out she had also slept with someone I had slept with and seemed to want men to prefer her to me. I can’t remember the details now as it was over 20 years ago. I think my stbexh told her that her behaviour was inappropriate as he was in a relationship. I know that’s probably the result you’d like but now I’m old (and a bit wiser) I just see a very sad woman who needed validation by feeling that men find her attractive.

I would say that if everything else is good in the relationship then it seems a shame to end it. Obviously if you discover he’s too passive in all elements of his life and you don’t like that then that’s different.

Yes, I think I would...

Well it is his choice not to shut it down. It's my choice not to accept that 🤷🏻‍♀️

seemed to want men to prefer her to me

I just see a very sad woman who needed validation by feeling that men find her attractive.

Yes. She has told me that when she first me me she didn't like me because, until then, she had been the attractive one.

Sad thing is, she's completely ruined our friendship.

I should just ignore but it's hard when she's there calling him, inserting herself between us, copying me, trying to catch his attention... and all the while looking at me smugly like a fkn Disney villain! 😉

If you are otherwise happy in the relationship, then I think I would give him a few ways of shutting it down. A few phrases he could use in different scenarios.
I know you've said you've talked about it, and since then he has been trying to shut it down in his own way, but not enough for you, so I think you can reopen this conversation, and tell him the things he is trying are not working, so he needs to be more direct, tell him exactly how your feel and that you are reconsidering the relationship as he doesn't seem able to shut this down even knowing how you feel about it.
You need to know he has your back, life is long and hard and if he can't do this for you, then what's he going to be like when something big happens.