Husband says I don't get paid enough

[BrokenArrowzzz]

I am in a new-ish role (6 months) that I'm really enjoying. It's constantly changing, very creative and sounds a lot more impressive to people than the role pays.

I have undiagnosed ADHD and have struggled to progress and stick to a job for more than 3-4 years. I was really unhappy and failing in my previous role, and was fortunate enough to move into one that is really suited to me. The problem is it doesn't pay very well. I haven't had an increase in my salary for 8 years. (Less than £30k) In fact the new role I have taken is the same salary as my previous one, but a grade lower so I've lost my private medical benefits and taken a cut in any bonuses. I am 42 and everyone else in my team are in their late 20's or early 30's. I am the only one who is on a lower grade (they said because it's because the role is 4 days a week and doesn't have interaction with senior stakeholders).

Recently my job has involved me needing to do a small bit of travel within the UK - both day trips and overnight. This means my husband (who is always very hands on) is left looking after both children, getting them ready in the morning, doing drop offs and pick ups, dinners, bedtimes etc. He's getting very annoyed with me and the fact that my role is 'demanding' and requires me to be away from home sometimes and not around to help in the evenings. He tells me straight up that my job is taking advantage of me, that I don't get paid enough, that it's <the job> 'not working'. When I try and tell him I have to pull my own weight in the team and things work on a tight schedule that I just can't get out of he challenges me by saying 'well I bet they make more. How much do they make?' Like I'm supposed to know?? I don't talk about money with other people. I ask him what he would like me to do - quit my job? Work in a shop with an even worse (I assume) salary, but that's more suited to him. Each option I can think of would leave us financially worse off. He just says I need to 'think bigger picture' and find a way to make more money with hours that work better for the family. But he never gives me any solutions.

His comments leave me feeling worthless and like I don't matter. He's frustrated because he pays for almost everything including the children's school fees, most household bills, food, etc. Its taken me ages to write this out, and I honestly can't even remember why I started it. More just to vent I guess.

I think your husband has a point but I also think he needs to realise that how he wants to live isn’t necessary.

My DP isn’t paid enough. He’s a fire fighter, runs into burning buildings, supposed to work 12 hour shifts but can often be 16 and is constantly called in on his days off. He knows I don’t think he’s paid enough as I think this kind of job should be paid way more. But I say it lovingly, not with judgement. It’s his job and he loves it. I would never make him feel like shit about that. Your husband seems to be saying this in a way which makes me think it’s much more than him worrying your work are taking the piss out of you.

It sounds like his frustration is more with how much of the family burden he shoulders ( taking care of children etc ) rather than what you earn? He means you don’t earn enough to compensate for him having to do everything?

if your salary is low and you have to travel early into London once a week and go away for a few days a couple of times a month I can see how he would feel out out by having to solely do the kid stuff plus pay for all the family expenses on top of it. It’s almost like you would be better off as a family if you didn’t work because he could just focus on his job and u can focus on the kids.
my dh works crazy hours and I end up taking care of ds on my own way Up to 9/10pm weekday nights. I work full time as well and IMO, his job doesn’t pay enough either for me to get no break and no support . so I can see where your dh is coming from

He just says I need to 'think bigger picture' and find a way to make more money with hours that work better for the family. But he never gives me any solutions

Does he work in senior managment or in a senior role? There is no shortage of arrogant, condescending dickheads who will bark at people that they need to find a solution, that they need to 'THINK BIG'. They also tell people not to make excuses and aren't interested in hearing about pesky details that actually require them to think about the problem-solving task at hand. They expect results yet don't have the talent or intelligence to manifest it themselves, but make everyone else feel shit for not being able to do so.

He's frustrated because he pays for almost everything including the children's school fees, most household bills, food, etc

You must be living an expensive lifestyle in an expensive area. This is partly what's causing the issue, and I suspect he wants a career trophy wife for the status (that's why he's comparing you to that woman who earns 60k+). What did he expect of you when you first met OP?

The arts are full of exploitation. You are not going to get a high salary in most positions. In addition to sector related exploitation, a lot of people now leave their jobs after about 2 years because there is a financial penalty for loyalty - a lot of companies save their budgets for new hires and won't give their existing employees a raise unless they have to. If you do get a raise, it won't be as much as entering a new company because you are negotiating from a position of weakness - the existing company knows you are reliant on them for a wage and they take full advantage of that. If you add in sector-related exploitation, and the fact that some jobs are seen as a privilege or a 'calling', it further adds to the difficulty you face as there is an attitude you should put-up with less pay because you should be grateful that you work in that sector at all.

I'd look for a new job if I were you.

Mumsnet seems to be a bubble of high earners. With this attitude, how do teachers ever marry? We always hear on here about how low paid they are (are they? I don't know. But salaries akin to the OP's are often quoted). So who would marry a teacher, given their salary and the fact they can never do school drop offs and picks because they are organising those for their own pupils, plus they have to work inset days, have training days and go on residentials etc that require them to be away overnight sometimes. They are also degree educated etc. It is a joke that mumsnet masses seem to think a degree and a few years work experience should deliver a salary of £100k+.

He sounds like he expects you to earn lots of money without it having any impact on him.
You say he's hands on but also that you do bedtime and dinner every night you're home. You miss drop off once a week and possibly dinner but are home for bed and miss a few days every few months so 4-6 times a year. That isn't that much for a job that pays a reasonable wage and op loves.
DH has out three kids three fri-sun weekends a year just for my volunteer work and I don't work for a living.

How much does your husband actually earn OP? We've dissected your salary at his whim, what about his? I'm sure we can all quote people that earn a lot more than he does, yet do a lot more with their kids and around the house....

@PickAChew

It's a interesting and very privileged world where OP is regarded as low paid.

Indeed! I sit here with my 10k a year feeling rather inadequate haha

Ditto nurses. Degree educated, highly responsible and paid less than £30k at the top of Band 5 with no extra for unsocial hours, including night shifts.

This really resonates with me. I earn 4x what my DH earns and I’m far and away the main breadwinner for our family. It’s working out fine for us for now and we’re financially very comfortable.

That said, my DH recently took a new job that was waaaay more interesting than his previous role, but meant a 15% cut in salary, no pension, and reduced benefits (which impacts the whole family). We agreed this was ok for a period of 18-24 months as a launching pad to something better. If that role also meant a ton of travel and/or no obvious route to increasing his contribution to the family pot eventually, I don’t think I would be so supportive. I feel a ton of pressure needing to earn what I earn to meet our financial needs/goals in my stressful job. For now, I love it and I’m happy to do it. But I’m not signing up for this indefinitely, I just can’t.

@UpToMyElbowsInDiapers but it isn't a ton of travelling. Once a week she can't do drop off and pick up. She's home by bedtime. Re dinner perhaps she could cook double portions the night before or get something ovenable in but it is once a week, she does dinner and bed every other night. The trips away a "every few months" so... four? times a year. I do three Fri-Sun weekends for my volunteer job and DH has our three kids Inc two toddlers and cooks dinner the night I get home.

could you look for a different husband. One that supports you, your career and encourages you. That lets you know that you are enough, that you are brilliant and that he appreciates you, rather than comparing you to his friends wife and belittling you and your work

@BrokenArrowzzz perhaps you need to rrassesyour family budget. If you're on say £28 and he's paying the majority I assume he's on at least £110. Who wants the kids in private school? What kind of mortgage do you have? Perhaps the option is to reduce the family budget to that of a family on say £28+£56=£84 instead of £138 then he has capacity to reduce his workload or look for other work. If he isn't happy supporting your families lifestyle, and you can't magic up a £60k job, the lifestyle needs to change

Why doesn't the new platform allow likes on posts!

I can see both sides of this one.

• he is the main earner and shouldering the vast majority of bills. He works a stressful job to facilitate that.
• he is also doing the majority of childcare. (I think I read he did all pick ups because he works from home. He's doing one drop off daily, and both drop offs once a week when op is in London. Plus at least one three day a month when op travels for work and he does everything). Presumably that mental load also falls on him.
• OP has taken a job that earns less, has fewer benefits and increases the mental load on him. On paper, that's a crap trade off, both for the family as a whole and for him.
• OP works part-time, a massive privilege, but the family doesn't seem to be getting the benefits of a lower earning, part-time spouse in terms of family contribution (in fact the overnight work trips means her household contribution is lower).

I would be mightily unimpressed if DH took a lower earning job that simultaneously increased my workload in the home. She's contributing less financially and less round the house.

In fact, my DH did choose to take a lower earning and more interesting job. However, the trade off for this was less business travel and him being able to do far more around the house. In return, I've been able to take on a bigger role and earn more. We're both more balanced and happy now. But the crux is that the family benefitted from him having a lower income, because with it we bought time.

Yes there are plenty of men (and women) who work long hours and do business travel and leave childcare to their partners, but typically they earn MORE and that is the trade off.

I can understand why he's not happy.

On the other hand.

• He's a dick for saying ADHD doesn't exist
• He's a dick for not believing OP has ADHD (although I agree that OP should be getting a diagnosis as a priority)
• He's a dick for bringing what his pals' wives earn into the equation.

None of that is nice or constructive. But maybe he is at the end of his tether as he seems to bear most of the emotional, practical and family load.

I'm also very keen to hear about how chores and family management is broken down in the household...

He means you don’t earn enough to compensate for him having to do everything?
He doesn't do everything.
It's just that a man who does the school run (because he is the one WFH & has flexi time) is perceived as a veritable saint. Whereas a working woman who does the school run - & usually every-bloody-thing-else is just expected to crack on with being in 2 places at once ...

if your salary is low and you have to travel early into London once a week and go away for a few days a couple of times a month I can see how he would feel out out by having to solely do the kid stuff
But she doesn't travel that much. And her H isn't solely in charge of kid stuff by any stretch of the imagination.

Neither is a salary that provides a net income of approx £1500/month to be sniffed at, no matter the few PP who are being sniffy about if from the vantage point of their own well-managed (& I dare hazard neurotypical) career paths.
Which may well be why this H didn't sniff at the salary ... until 6 months ago, when it became a stalking horse to bitch at the OP about, because he doesn't like being in sole loco parentis a few times a month.

he is also doing the majority of childcare.

What makes you say that, @OnceUponAThread? Is childcare solely about school pick ups & drop offs?
Because that's the only childcare OP has referenced him doing ... & it's been a while, but I seem to recall it was a little more involved than that ...

Another PP has even solemnly advised her to cook double portions of dinner for the evenings she's travelling/late back from London. This PP wasn't being nasty - she was one of the more supportive & understanding replies, but even this assumes that it's OP's job to feed her family. WTF is wrong with the H cooking dinner (once a week!) ffs?

The assumption that OP somehow "ought" to be 100% available for childcare & household duty because she "only" pulls in maybe £1500/month net is so toxic I hardly know where to start. The way her H speaks to her it's like he sees her as an object & their entire marriage as a transaction.
I'm starting to agree with @Branleuse ... as OP now has a supportive boss & a plan to re-engage her career, it would be easier to change husbands than change jobs ...
could you look for a different husband. One that supports you, your career and encourages you. That lets you know that you are enough, that you are brilliant and that he appreciates you, rather than comparing you to his friends wife and belittling you and your work
Or at least remove herself from a toxic man who creates an environment where her MH issues are dismissed & she is derided for "not try hard enough" or "making excuses".

@EarthSight is bang on with this -
Does he work in senior managment or in a senior role? There is no shortage of arrogant, condescending dickheads who will bark at people that they need to find a solution, that they need to 'THINK BIG'. They also tell people not to make excuses and aren't interested in hearing about pesky details that actually require them to think about the problem-solving task at hand. They expect results yet don't have the talent or intelligence to manifest it themselves, but make everyone else feel shit for not being able to do so.

@LittleOverWhelmed

my husband refers to my job as “a hobby / vanity job” and would much prefer that I didn’t work. Great: I am a respected engineer and it is considered a hobby

Does he consider it a hobby because he earns enough for the both of you and therefore doesn't see the need for you to keep your job?

my husband refers to my job as “a hobby / vanity job” and would much prefer that I didn’t work. Great: I am a respected engineer and it is considered a hobby….

Yeah - I'm a little underwhelmed by that, @LittleOverWhelmed

You might enjoy this article - www.paulkipnes.com/i-mansplained-woman-and-i-liked-it/
& I hope the Rebecca Solnit piece that inspired it gives you a laugh. A tired, cynical one maybe, but a laugh - theorytuesdays.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Solnit-Men-Explain-Things-To-Me.pdf

@KettrickenSmiled I suggested double portions, but only as a trade off to stop his whining 😉.

Let's be clear re workload.

Drop offs - shared. But it's before work hours and he has no commute, she sometimes does, so it's fair.
Pick ups - he does them four days because they're both at cwork but he's flexible. Assume she does it on her day off.
For 7/8 weeks at a time, 6/7 days a week so does dinner and bedtime .
For 1/8 weeks at a time, 4/7 days a week she does dinner and bedtime.
Which let's face it likely means she also does the food shopping.

For 7/8 weeks at a time, 1/7 he does dinner and bed.
For 1/8 weeks at a time, 3/7 days a week he does dinner and bed.

She cooks for hi me very night she's home.

He never cooks for her.

Any chores that need doing once they're both home should be split equally. He doesn't get to do less because his salary is higher. That's bollocks.

If he's unhappy maintaining a lifestyle of private school etc then he needs to tell op that. Fair enough. She's never going to earn enough to pay for it so I believe he has the right to veto it.

He's not keeping them off the breadline, he's enjoying a good lifestyle.

If OP earning 30k more reduces his stress, given that isn't possible, they need to reduce their family budget

@KettrickenSmiled

he is also doing the majority of childcare.

What makes you say that, @OnceUponAThread? Is childcare solely about school pick ups & drop offs?
Because that's the only childcare OP has referenced him doing ... & it's been a while, but I seem to recall it was a little more involved than that ...

Another PP has even solemnly advised her to cook double portions of dinner for the evenings she's travelling/late back from London. This PP wasn't being nasty - she was one of the more supportive & understanding replies, but even this assumes that it's OP's job to feed her family. WTF is wrong with the H cooking dinner (once a week!) ffs?

The assumption that OP somehow "ought" to be 100% available for childcare & household duty because she "only" pulls in maybe £1500/month net is so toxic I hardly know where to start. The way her H speaks to her it's like he sees her as an object & their entire marriage as a transaction.
I'm starting to agree with @Branleuse ... as OP now has a supportive boss & a plan to re-engage her career, it would be easier to change husbands than change jobs ...
could you look for a different husband. One that supports you, your career and encourages you. That lets you know that you are enough, that you are brilliant and that he appreciates you, rather than comparing you to his friends wife and belittling you and your work
Or at least remove herself from a toxic man who creates an environment where her MH issues are dismissed & she is derided for "not try hard enough" or "making excuses".

@EarthSight is bang on with this -
Does he work in senior managment or in a senior role? There is no shortage of arrogant, condescending dickheads who will bark at people that they need to find a solution, that they need to 'THINK BIG'. They also tell people not to make excuses and aren't interested in hearing about pesky details that actually require them to think about the problem-solving task at hand. They expect results yet don't have the talent or intelligence to manifest it themselves, but make everyone else feel shit for not being able to do so.

She says she's not back till 6:30pm every day.

That suggests he must be doing - pick up (confirmed in post), any homework and dinner at the least.

I'd also expect baths and possibly even bedtimes by then (depending on the ages of the children, but I think we can assume they aren't teens / older and self-reliant).

So that's a lot of the mental load and admin and parenting.

He drops one child to school every day as well. I think we can assume from that, that she does the other child (except the one day a week she is in London).

She doesn't say who typically does wake ups, dressing and breakfast. But we know that he does it at least once a week when she's in London. Plus the three day trips on top. And we know he's up and dropping one child off daily.

Without a detailed breakdown - that looks like he is doing the majority to me. 100% of evenings plus a solid chunk of mornings.

I would be keen to know who is doing most housework. (Affluent area, private schools, is there a cleaner?). But I note that OP works four days a week, so there is one day a week that I presume is allocated to blitzing the house (or should be). Generally, if someone in a household has a part time job, I would expect them to be doing a big chunk of family admin / housework to compensate.

Incidentally - one of the key indicators for ADHD is struggling with household chores. Obviously everyone is different, but it would be unusual if there was no impact there.

Of course, we have no idea what happens on weekends... I suspect that by now if OP was doing masses of childcare and housework she'd have said so. When actually she has said he is hands on and pulls his weight.

The fact remains - op has chosen a more fun, engaging and interesting job (great) that pays less (not great), has fewer benefits (not great), and involves overnight travel and early starts / later finishes (not great).

Husband is main earner, who is now taking on a greater share of household responsibility to accommodate OPs step down.

I'd be annoyed in his shoes too. I'd be thinking that if she's going to have a low paid, part time job, she should be picking up the lion's share of the house / child stuff. Or if she's travelling and working longer hours, that should be financially compensated in the workplace.

I also agree that if he unilaterally decided to take a lower paid job that took him out of the house more and contributed less in terms of time and admin to the family - everyone in here would be in uproar.

Albeit (as I said) many of the ways he's expressed this make him a dick.

he is the main earner and shouldering the vast majority of bills. He works a stressful job to facilitate that

Does he? A large salary doesn’t necessarily equate to a stressful job. My highest paying job was the least stressful I’ve ever had. It would have been completely stressfree if I’d wfh.

@OnceUponAThread OP says Day travel into London requiring an earlier start before the children are up and then getting home about 6-6:30pm is about 3-5x a month. not every day

"Pickup" will also include after school childcare. Plus if DH is taking time out to do 2 lots of school runs he will be working late to make up for time missed. And OP gets one whole day off to herself and I doubt she spends the whole of it doing housework.

@Fere

@OnceUponAThread OP says Day travel into London requiring an earlier start before the children are up and then getting home about 6-6:30pm is about 3-5x a month. not every day

Op also says:

"Now that we are returning to the office or if I'm out away from home for work I would still be able to drop off one of our DC."

She adds that DH does all pick ups because he works from home...