April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

@DFOD I think there’s a part of jealousy in abusive MILs behaviour. We’ve replaced them in their son/daughter’s lives. We’ve taken away access to a supply of adoration or someone they can abuse. I totally get what you mean about being the people pleaser. I used to not see the signals too clearly - I thought she was weird - and try to make her life ‘better’. This is impossible.

You are right, she’s taken up way too much headspace over the past two years since January 2020 when she took up residence here for five LONG weeks to ‘get better’ after a hospitalisation. Then it was all unleashed.

Mr Monkey does now deal one to one with her. I do nothing for her. Nothing. I don’t even source things online for her now. She’s blocked on my phone, I don’t have her numbers, and I never pick up the landline when it’s her. I leave the room when she’s on the phone. It’s all so much better.

The big occasions are the only times I have to see her and that’s only for MM’s sake. Strictly time limited. We now don’t do anything for her birthday, Easter, Bank Hols etc - once I would have hosted her here for a meal. And the idea of a shit cheap pub lunch was a phasing out of Xmas as she knows it/expects it. Just scuppered, but I’ll think of something. At least it didn’t have me crying yesterday as anything to do with her used to do. I’ve come on MILES in the last year in my relationship with her. She knows Xmas is the only thing she has left to wreck. Think on, lady.

@Ydkiml thank you! It’s like a game of chess with her.
MM is like me - KIND. But he was the one last Xmas who said NEVER again and my mum and I agreed. His kindness about all this is worrying about his brother not having anywhere to go at Xmas. Slave Son never goes anywhere at Xmas, he drinks in his house and then goes to the pub. SS sees it as a day off from the Hag. No one invites him.

The reason I don’t want new Xmas plans announced to SS is that he’ll tell the Hag and she’ll be able to twist it into a spiteful drama. SS is unable to lie or ‘withhold the truth’. And it will become three months of drama.SS has Stockholm Syndrome and thinks this is normal. God, I can’t even believe I’m writing this on 27 September.

Misery and mints sums it up. I LOVE THAT.

Trying to explain to MM how she makes me physically sick with anxiety when I’m near here last night was difficult. I don’t want him to feel upset, her behaviour is NOT his responsibility.

He gets it, he’s not stupid or uncaring. I think, like his brother, there’s a certain amount of ‘oh, that’s the hag’ and delusion plus still feeling a little bit responsible for her, although far, far, far less than before. For SS he’s just battered into submission, for MM it’s more complex. Having said that, he’s changed hugely in his reactions to her. He’s LC. He stands up to her or refuses to engage. The counselling for his PTSD has really helped and he seldom has nightmares now.

i know Xmas for her is a way of yanking the chain and ruining things for others. I’m going to work out a plan to wrong foot her.

It’s dawning on me now that SS may have ALREADY told her re Xmas pub idea when it was decided earlier this year and that’s why we’re not having the Hag Christmas Front as usual in September. With that untainted (tainted by my mum and me) space taken away, there being no option of luxury B&B at my mum’s, the final alternative is HERE in the Bitch DIL’s house.

And she won’t like that and may well do a ‘I don’t want to trouble uou, I’ll just stay in my hovel and eat a ready meal’. Fingers crossed. If she does that, we’re off to my mum’s. MM is now brilliant and when she tries thar shit “well, that’s your choice, you’ve decided” and she’s cornered.

lots to ponder, but I will overcome.

@Sicario i really admire you walking away despite all the hurt. It’s also wishing a family was different. MM has that in spades. But the only responsibilities for dysfunction are the people doling it out. Mr Monkey is getting far better at that. Your sister definitely has something going on. Have they been in touch since you opted out of sorting your mum’s will out so they could get all the £££? Thar was the best bit of entitlement by a country mile.

ha ha re Xmas ready meal dinner. It’s certainly becoming more of an option.

The freezer makes me really laugh. She has a tiny freezer compartment in her fridge. She exists on a rotating diet of shepherd’s pie or lasagne.

During the worst of lockdown, I suggested she buy a small table top freezer so there was always food in the house because of shortages, SS not being in her bubble and MM doing the shopping for her.

We got deliveries from the Co-op as it was impossible to get deliveries from elsewhere cue moaning about the choice (FFS) and expense.

MM or I would walk it round and we’re working, of course. “Where are you? When are you bringing my food over?”

So, try and present a logical argument of getting a CHEAP one to get her more choice, cheaper food (bulk buy at Tesco), it being more convenient for us and if we were ill, she wouldn’t have ANYONE getting her food got SCREAMED down. Absolutely SCREAMED down. I think she was flailing on the floor when MM suggested it.

You absolutely cannot deal with batshit.

Hi ladies!

Have been catching up on your posts - @MonkeyfromManchester also have missed your updates. I agree with others, you're being too considerate to her. She has another son who can sort something out for her, I feel bad for him as he is so enmeshed but it's each man for themselves in these toxic families I think. Just leave them to it, whether it's pub or her slum, who cares! I also think taking her food round is actually too nice personally but if it makes Mr Monkey feel ok then worth doing. A little hamper would easier than cooking a meal and bringing it over. I do think it's a good chance to reframe how Xmas is going to be now, 'after last year, we've decided to have a quiet, stress-free Xmas going forward, hope you understand' - that could mean actually going somewhere like a hotel or Airbnb, stay with a family member or pretending to. Whatever excuses works for you.

Christmas is such a challenging time of year isn't it? Old synapses start to trigger our sense of duty and obligation. For most Christmas is about coming together and enjoying each other's company, but for us it's how to avoid them at all costs whilst creating the minimal amount of drama.

@Underthehills it's good you have created those boundaries and your DM is respecting them, NC isn't for everyone for a myriad of reasons but LC with very clear boundaries and a lot of 'grey rocking' can help keep you safe. Your dad sounds really creepy, how awful for you. It's amazing how common it is for narc fathers to be this way with their daughters. Mine treated me like I was his girlfriend for my very early years, love bombing me / putting me on a pedestal / overly tactile / using me to make my mum jealous... he would constantly take pictures of me, just one too many bikini shots to be normal I am afraid. And when I was older this did not stop, and all made me feel like I had zero privacy. Throughout my twenties he proceeded to send me these pics via email, with attached comments about my appearance, eg 'this is where you look good to me', 'this is where you do not look good to me' - he was incredibly sizeist, used to degrade my mother about her body and weight, and guess what, I had an eating disorder for over 10 years, largely because of it I think.

@briarhill saddened but also inspired by your story. How sick your mother was to dredge up and revel in stories of physical abuse in your own home. So glad you got them to leave early. I hope you find it in you to remove yourself further, maybe just in gradual phases. Perhaps start by blocking all of them on social media, if they ask and say why have you disappeared, then you've deleted your account. Then email, then WhatsApp, and go as far as you want to go. If you move house, do not give them your address. Stop giving them any updates. Put all that energy into the people that matter. The relationships where you get good energy back. You have created a beautiful life for yourself, now it's time to fully enjoy and never let them set you off course again. I have too made this mistake and it has take months of therapy to figure out what needs to happen for me to feel safe.

@ScoobyDoobyDoowhere so sorry to hear about your mum, what about your DF, is he still about? Your mum sounds like a classic narc tbh, your DS is the golden child and you are the scapegoat. Does golden child toe the line more, does she feed her ego? As hard as it is you have to mourn the mother and the unconditional love you should have had because it's not going to be possible to get from her. I had my daughter when I was 38, my mother lives about 4 hours away and immobile right now. She has never helped with anything. I wouldn't let her baby sit as I don't trust her (we were constantly left unsupervised and ended hospitalised a good few times) but to not even get the offer of help and support during the first few weeks of post partum. No care package ever came. When she met her for the first time she wasn't even excited. When we choose her name, she didn't even comment on it. Just little things that are just so utterly disappointing. My friend is just about to have a 4th child, between her and her siblings there are 8 kids now, every time one of them is born, their mum comes down to stay for a week or two, to help with laundry, making food... gosh I hope I can do this for my daughter somehow. Anyway knowing this made me realise how useless my own mother is... recently she expected to rock up to my dress fitting for my wedding dress, as if she was going through the motions of what she felt she should be doing... but this is the woman who prob took me shopping once during my teenage years, who never took me for coffee or lunch or any female bonding, just no mother / daughter time really, she did nothing by herself with us as kids even tho she worked part time. I'm due to be taking my daughter to a mother and daughter retreat soon, it's really important to me that we get that 1:1 bonding time.

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Update - I have found myself in a hard place for last couple of weeks. I just don't know what to do. My mother is supposed to come down for my daughter's bday party. There are a few reasons why she prob won't / can't come. I have said she cannot stay here, which is legit as we have DH's family here and my bestie who are all helping me with the party stuff. My mum won't be able to help with anything as she is largely immobile. I really regret inviting her. She hasn't said much about it tho so perhaps she isn't intending to come. We are currently in process of buying a house, I haven't told her anything about it. But she is sniffing around asking. I do not want her to have the address, because I don't want my dad or brother (nothing wrong with my brother but he can't be trusted with it) to have it, because I don't feel safe if he has. Somehow he has found out my address of the last two places I have lived and this has likely come from my mum. I also don't want her to visit me anymore. I am ok with seeing her for a lunch whilst we are up her way to see another relative, but that's it. I don't enjoy staying with her anymore for loads of reasons which have been enhanced since we have dependants / other people/animals to consider. She asked about house hunting yesterday, I wondered if it would be a good time to tell her that my mental health is in the toilet, that I have been having traumatic flash backs and that I am in therapy (again), some of those flashbacks involve damaging things you said/did, and that I need time to process everything / maybe it's best if you do not come to the party? But then I chickened out and said something vague about house hunting and wished her luck with what was going on.
In my mind I have two routes:

1. go mega LC, just keep everything super vague, chances are she prob won't come to the party anyway, make sure DH's family know not discuss the move around her if she does, maybe around the time of house move start to restrict her access to my social media?

2. blow this stuff up - tell her the truth that I have been having these flash backs, that have stirred up a lot of emotions and raise a lot of questions, and that I need time to process and then go NC for foreseeable, therefore making it 'acceptable' that I could move house and conceal new address without notifying her. I don't really want to cause an older lady unnecessary distress, and I don't want the arse ache either, I am not sure I have the emotional bandwidth to deal with the fall out. Either she will deny or she will beg for forgiveness. At the same time maybe giving her an opportunity to make peace with this would be good at this stage of life. Maybe calling her out for the first in her life would be cathartic for me? She has been truly awful for last year, since I got pregnant really.

The reality is we never formed an attachment. We don't have much between us, there isn't much love there, at least from my side, so what is in it for me? Sorry to sound selfish but seriously. I asked my DH what he thought of her, and he said that he felt she was very self centred. Her world is very small, mainly due to immobility... but then she was always a misanthrope who didn't venture out much, never really had friends. DH has complained that when we go round she just slags of everyone and anyone who has come into her orbit since the last time we saw her. Two of her partner's children do not speak to them, I reckon it's because of her tbh. She is rude to everyone she meets, it's not possible for her to maintain relationships it seems. She spends too much time in my head right now, mainly due to all this uncertainty and change going on in my life.

Any advice would be appreciated! Xx

@ScoobyDoobyDoowhere just one more thing to consider, your biological family or your family of origin (FOO) aren't the limit of your support network, we have brought people into our life who help with our family and make us feel like we have a network. Our part time nanny is a bit older and acts as a fake grand ma, I had a doula early on with the baby and we now do yoga together and she occasionally watches the baby, and we have a lovely cleaner who we get on really well with, they are part of our family in their own way, and then we have DH's family who are far away but i prioritise their needs over my family all the time (am NC with narc dad, and LC with narc mum and enmeshed brother) and when they are here we always have a lovely time together. They are my family now. I have stopped distinguishing. I also put more effort than I ever did into my friends and nurturing those relationships. Making them 'odd mothers' to my child, elevating their status in our lives so they know full well they are important to us. I am really proud of my friendships. I also think having parties and entertaining and bringing those people together and not inviting toxic people, and being honest about why if / when people ask (likely they will not). Anyway this is just a few ways I fill the gap, I wish it was different but you cannot leave the vacuum there, you have to divert attention and energy x

@winningeasy Thank you so much for your wise feedback.

That sounds like a tricky situation with your own mother. Both your potential courses of action sound legitimate. Do what feels most right and authentic for you and wishing you and all the brave women here all the best.

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your stories here. Truth-telling is such a powerful thing.

@MonkeyfromManchester

NC is often a process and it seems that you are very far along that path already as you have managed her out of many events.

It’s impressive to see you continuing to emotionally protect yourself by walking out of the room when the calls come in. You need zero info about her words, actions, life or plans. They will just trigger and pollute your mind and hijack your emotions.

Appreciate how far you have come - and then bite the bullet to take the final step.

You don’t need plans to wrong foot her - that’s giving her too much value and headspace.

Be calm, detached and determined that Xmas with you is the final string to cut.

Your DP is doing great but needs to keep going on his own path. If he wants to drop off a dinner and stay for an hour or so then that’s up to him to decide what’s reasonable.

I suspect that you might feel ecstatic if you decide that the final issue around xmas is decided and that you are 100% free of her for the rest of your life.

Spend the headspace, emotional energy and time which you once spent on her on other positive, enriching experiences proactively. Don’t let the next few years be shadowed by waiting for her to die for you to feel better - assume she is dead to you now.

Put her in the dust in your rear view mirror and speed on forward with a lovely fresh future.

This is exactly the proactive approach needed - choosing to fill that dark ugly hole left by toxic family with refreshing radiant people and positive experiences to neutralise the hurt and gain warmth, connection, fulfilment and fun elsewhere.

Couple of my closest friends have been honest and said that they are secretly delighted I have moved on from toxic family because they get more time with together and that time is light and fun and not shadowed by this weeks family histrionics.

My take is to never blow it up with the people who caused it because they didn’t ‘get it’ your whole life - they are but going to have a sudden empathy transplant get it now - also they will use it against you.

Its handing them the bullets to shoot you with. They will either smirk that you are as unhinged, hysregulated or unreasonable as they thought - or they will turn on the water works and claim an attack and then DARVO attack you - so you get hurt and sneered at.

We are always hopeful that our dysfunctional parents will “see” our point of view - it’s a natural innocent child-like expectation that should have been realised in childhood - but it won’t be because they can’t do it - they are not capable of healthy relating, of being humble and building bridges, of empathy ….. that’s why we are where we are - because they are not emotionally evolved.

We need to change our expectations in these cases (not lower them) - just to accept that this person can’t or won’t change so that the onus is on ourselves to manage our expectations of these characters realistically and move on to find closure and peace elsewhere - it’s not going to come from the person who let you down.

Just a rant...

It's my mother's birthday today - 81 - and even though I'm extremely low contact with her - I've not seen her in 13 years - I've sent a present and a text message (she lives on the other side of the world).

Got a thank you text, then another saying that my SIL and my SIL's parents have sent her birthday texts, but she hasn't heard anything from my older brother himself!

The background is that my older brother was somewhat the golden child growing up, but his halo has definitely slipped since he married (my mother hates SIL for no good reason) and a couple of comments he's made to his wife about our childhood (true and somewhat comforting to me because they confirmed I wasn't imaging how shit it actually was) SIL stupidly passed on to my mother...as you can imagine that when down like a lead balloon with my mother and whenever she mentions my brother now she makes sarcastic comments like 'oh yes, we had him working down the mines, he had to walk 10 miles to school everyday'...my mother refuses point blank to accept that her and my father made our childhood hell with their selfishness...

Older brother has always been crap at keeping in touch with family. I've not personally heard from him in 15 years! So I just replied to her text with 'Older brother is a bit weird', and I got the reply 'Probably thinking of his terrible childhood'...

I'm not replying. I have nothing to say. I'm not going to reassure her, I know that's what she's fishing for, I don't care if it's her birthday.

You reap what you sow.

@DFOD Amen to everything you've said.

@winningeasy bloody hell, what a lot to cope with. There is NO point blowing up or talking to her. It won’t heal a relationship with no attachment at the heart of it. Abusers refuse to acknowledge responsibility, to genuinely change, or they turn it on you. Concentrate on your lovely family and healing. Your mum is sniffing around because she senses something is up. You’ll get her out of your head by not dealing with her drama. It says everything that your DH says that and her partner’s kids won’t have anything to do with them. The mantra has to be you WinningEasy and what matters to you comes first. You’ll crack it. Keep strong. Xxx

@DFOD I’m going to work something out. I haven’t got an ounce of sympathy for him now and I can see how much she’s poisoned him against me. Do not give a fuck. He’s not someone I’d hang around with in real life. He’s a total idiot for allowing the last 30 years of his life to be controlled by Hag.

Personally, I wouldn’t waste our £ on a hamper. It will only be glowered at and rejected to be put in the foyer of her flats for someone to take. WTAF.

Last Xmas was hilarious. Gift wise, at Hag’s request, we didn’t get her anything. When we dropped her back at her lair at 3am Boxing Day (I wish) proudly displayed under her fireplace were the slippers her neighbour gave her. She kept banging on about the slippers. 😂 I think we were supposed to think Mary is her real child.

The thing that pissed me off was the Hag getting a (cheap) wall clock from my mum, the Hag waxing lyrical about it on Xmas Day at my mums and then when she realized she was GOING HOME getting more and more negative about it. “No, don't bother about the step ladders, it's too much trouble, Mummy Monkey” FUCKING RUDE AND. SPITEFUL but it’s actually laughable at how she makes gifts into weapons.

Money is a particular weapon.

There is a purse of hers with £300 in it which she left somewhere in this house. We put it somewhere when we were on holiday. There are 1000s stuffed in nooks and crannies in her flat. I wouldn't mind going through the gifts in her spare room. Some nice Prada perfume from my SIL. Just dawned on me the freebies she's giving away in the foyer are to stop me getting my grasping paws on when she croaks. Pathetic.

@noirchatsdeux yep, she wouldn't have liked SIL taking Golden boy away. They ALWAYS turn it on to their children. The text is definitely fishing and you are right to ignore her. Jeez, what are they like!?!? It's so predictable, but so fucking tedious and ANNOYING and RAKES UP OLD SHIT.

@MonkeyfromManchester The woman called me a bitch on my 11th birthday...probably because I dared to suggest I wasn't having a great one as we were living in what was then called a 3rd World Country. She fucking meant it, too. I've never forgotten, will never forgive.

I've not seen my 'ILs' (not married, but together 13 years) for 8 years now. FIL is a narcissistic cunt, MIL is a enabling lying moron. Luckily they live 200 miles away and I have pets (and no family in the UK) so I have a permanent excuse not to see them. Stupid bastards didn't realise that a woman who has cheerfully had no contact with her own father for 33 years wouldn't be willing to put up with their bullshit.

I'm sorry you are already stressing over Christmas. It's sad, I loved Christmas as a kid, fucking hate it now. I'm planning to spend this year in Venice on my own. Partner will be looking after the pets. Most people look at me a bit askance when I tell them my plans, but I don't give a flying fuck. Christmas on my own is my gift to my sanity this year.

@noirchatsdeux AWFUL. I'm not surprised you'll never forgive and forget.

Fantastic ‘excuse’ with the pets. I quite fancy getting a Rottweiler and leaving it at the Hag’s.

The narcs don't get it, do they? They would never EVER think that we can't fight back in some way and completely cut contact.

Venice sounds perfect. I had the best Xmas one year after my then abusive ex had behaved like a twat so I went back to my flat and watched Choir of the Year on TV and drank champagne. Gorgeous.

Yep, I'm going to try and dodge as much of Xmas as I can.

@MonkeyfromManchester

That's the narcissists greatest flaw, their Achilles heel... that they don't realise that there are people who just won't engage with them.

As a 54 year old, I often think of the War Games line 'The only winning move is not to play'. I was married before, back when I was in my very early 20s (to get away from parents) and I tied myself in knots for YEARS to try and get my MIL to 'like' me...what a waste of energy that was! It was funny, I only woke up and stopped straight after the wedding...she realised I wasn't going anywhere and started to be 'nice'...but for me, it was too little, too late. It was like a switch had been turned off in my mind...I no longer cared about her or her opinion of me.

I see so many threads on here, young women (usually) trying so hard to deal with awful inlaws ... I always feel like yelling 'just stop, it's not worth it!'

It's a shame you, Mr Monkey and Mother Monkey can't go away for Christmas.

The only winning move is not to play

I’m stealing that …. same sentiment as “drop the rope” - it’s very powerful to get your head out of of their game.

A real sense of release.

My rage is with myself for trying too hard for too long. I have ensured that my DCs have better boundaries and learn to identify and swerve the drama lamas and professional victims.

Smile and wave. And slither away. Best not to be noticed by these vexatious types.

Never be goaded into reacting.

@noirchatsdeux it so is! They’ll sit there seething about how ‘ they've been treated’. No self-awareness, not even a basic understanding of cause and effect.

I used to care about what people thought, less and less as I get older. I certainly don't give a fuck about her opinion of me.

It's a real shame about Xmas. I think I might say to Mr Monkey that he finds somewhere. I can't bear my mum’s sense of responsibility to the Hag and doing the right thing. I had to be really assertive with my mum over that last Xmas. By lunchtime Xmas day, my mum had said “the Hag is incredibly manipulate and I see what you mean”. By evening, she was putting narcissist on the scrabble board which had me in hysterics. So, my mum does know, but is ‘kind’.

@DFOD good on you with your children. So many women on this forum worry that they will parent in the same way as they were ‘parented’. No way, you don't arrive at the realisation of all that toxicity and repeat it all. So many women here working really, really hard to get out of the poison around them through reading, through talking, through therapy. It's all hard work, but worth it.

Roll up, roll up for a Hag CLASSIC. So, I'm cooking dinner, Mr Monkey calls the Hag, he's not spoken to her since Friday. To be applauded.

A classic conversation follows.

But, first CONTEXT.

During his day at work today, Slave Son phoned him. Apparently, someone on his street got SHOT. And there was a drugs raid when ten crates of cannabis was seized by the police yesterday. It is VERY dodgy inner city Manchester and it’s only going to get worse. A few years ago the polce were reported to smash his door in with a battering ram on a DRUG’S RAID until a neighbour said the den of inequity was up the street three doors down. 😂

MM: I think you're going to have to move, mate. That's not good.
Slave Son: yeah, I think I need to.

They talk about various solutions. A flat, sheltered place etc. Just the beginning of a conversation. This is all Positive as Slave Son is disabled and his slum is a death trap.

Hag starts conversation: have you heard what happened?

Cue huge drama and “I'm so worried about him there”. Attention seeking crap.

MM: “yes, it's terrible. I spoke to him this afternoon. He rang me.”

Hag: “oh, did he?” She can't stand them talking.

MM: “yes, he was saying he's thinking of moving. It's not safe.”

Hag: well, where would he go?

MM: “a flat.”

Hag deliberately doesn't ‘understand’. What's a flat? Total word salad starts. She's biding for time.

“Well, he won't like that. He's got a perfectly nice house. All his friends live there. How would he go to his club?”

THIS, ladies, is about her.

SHE used to live in exactly the same kind of house. Round the corner, of course.

The friends are people SHE knows.

And the club is where SHE was a barmaid for 30 years.

Absolute classic.

Instructed MM that he can sort it all out with Slave Son and that I'm not getting involved with the inevitable drama from the Hag and by extension Slave Son. I'm not doing flat searches, organizing viewings etc. De nada.

MM sees that it's all about her. I don't need to explain that anymore.

A normal person would bend over backwards to support her son, a 64 year old vulnerable, disabled man to move out of a street that is going to become like the wild west. But no, it's about her, it's not about what's right and caring.

Jesus, MM’s family.

I've just had to laugh into my wine.

Thanks all. Our DC are now 17 and 18 so we don’t require family support from my mum now thanks. SIL no kids is brilliant but lives over 3 hrs away, my best friend is also brilliant and like a surrogate auntie and my god mum has also come through for us.

My mums mum was absolute lovely but her father was really not a nice man and was forever playing games playing my mum and her siblings off against one another (which I witnessed and also how it greatly upset my mum) but history has repeated itself with her.

My niece and my sister are the golden ones as someone said. My father is no longer with us. He supported me more than my mother and he occasionally took my side but by enlarge they both idolised my sister and then my niece. When he died during covid at its height my mum phoned up to say niece (then 18) had said she had always wanted to speak at his funeral (he had been dead less than 48 hours) as she looked on my dad more like a father. My mum said she was asking me if that was ok as really it should be me as I was the eldest but she thought I might get upset and maybe better if niece did it. I said well I might get upset but would like to speak for my dad. I was then told well only one person can speak and niece has already started writing and planning her speech and she was so close to him my mum couldn’t really say no to her.

Niece and sister (and my disabled brother) make my mum feel needed which she enjoys and she looks up to sister and niece, respects their opinion and hangs off their every word neither are particularly smart/intelligent etc. I and my advice or opinion is ignored.

As my mum is early 80’s I don’t want to hurt her or fall out with her at this stage in her life (which she knows full well). Even though she thinks nothing of snubbing or hurting me. I am low contact. My sister and niece are falling over themselves more so than ever to visit and befriend my mum and I am sure they will inherit my mums house and money after her day I and my DC will get naff all.

Evening all. Lying in bed and it's occurred to me (not for the first time) that my insomnia is just 3 decades of anger finally beginning to spill over.

Long story but mainly- my parents have always had an extremely dysfunctional relationship... mainly due to lack of transparency/communication from DF. Pretty sure he's had/having EA's with at least one woman and this has been ongoing since my childhood. Some of you on this thread can probably imagine the damage that sort of insecurity and doubt about one's own parent, can do. It honestly ruined my childhood and has affected subsequent relationships- major trust issues.

I still have a relationship with my parents, who basically play happy families. But recently (since becoming a parent myself, I think), I cannot shake this rage. I feel so resentful and angry and DF has noticed a change in my demeanour towards him. He tries super hard with me which I find both sad but also absolutely infuriating. I honestly thought I could carry on with life as usual but the anger consumes me and I feel like unleashing the reality of what he has put me through, on him.

I am a crier. A big one. I've often considered confronting him about my childhood (and even adulthood I suppose) but chicken out at the thought of confrontation, and despise the idea that he would get to see me so vulnerable and upset.

I need your advice, fellow stately homes people: I'm considering writing him an email about it all. Am I being mad? It would be my final attempt at 1) trying to glue back what's left of my pathetic family and 2) finally release this rage and be able to f*cking sleep without ruminating over the same damn thing every night.

I don't want to go NC. I want to have a relationship with my parents, at least for the sake of my own kids. But things need to change. I can't continue like this.

Susb

Do not write an email to him. Write it all down on sheets of A4 paper and then shred it. ANY words you write, no matter how carefully written will be used against you by him so do not do that to yourself.

Your children are relying on you to show them good judgement. If a person or relative is too difficult/bat shit for YOU to deal with it’s the same deal for the kids too. Do not subject them to toxic relatives under any circumstances because they will also see you being cowed by them. It’s not your fault your parents are like this and you did not make them that way either.

you will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

am on holiday this week so will be around more next week.

@SUSB2016 I am sorry you are going through this, i know exactly how you're feeling with the anger and rage bubbling, and then the insomnia that goes with it. I too had lots of realisations when I started parenting myself - learning more about gentle/ responsive parenting etc - and other factors led me to lots of flashbacks, dots became connected and I can never under it now. My parents are not together, NC with overt narc father, and LC with likely covert narc mother. I have been having the same quandary. I have decided not to blow stuff up, but to go ultra LC. So this means not really giving information to DM about my life (she lives ages away which makes all this easier), no phone calls, just respond to her texts and keep any responses to prying questions vague, this technique is called 'grey rocking' (I believe). When you're around them, it's about observing their narcissistic behaviour, changing the subject if you feel triggered and calling them out when appropriate... moving from feeling mode to thinking mode. Also just being your authentic self in front of them, no excuses, no masking of who you truly are, no apologies for being you. Maybe also not being alone with them, always having DH close by. Just protecting yourself from their drama and bullshit. Minimising contact. Perhaps making less effort around birthday and Xmas. Not feeling like you have to bring everyone together. Have family time (family of origin or chosen family) with safe individuals and exclude them for your own sanity. Use your extra time and energy (that you are not spending on them) on expanding your personal support network and creating joy - hobbies, experiences.

Do you have siblings? What are they like?

Have you sought out any therapies?

The app Calm is good for sleep btw, it has sleep stories, they really help, and then stuff like lavender oil, cbd, ashwaganda, valerian etc can help you with sleep. I think for now focusing on getting the sleep aspect sorted and taking each day as it comes. You have to love yourself, sooth yourself and be the parent to yourself that you never had. I hope you feel better soon xx

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4642618-stately-homes-people-could-you-look-at-this-please-long-sorry

just pasting link for traffic & help for OP

I have posted above any advice how to deal respond with my mums behaviour. She texted me the day after I called her out on something. With something about the weather than asking how I was feeling today (as though i was in the wrong/in a bad mood) this is what she does.

I replied generally and didn’t get suckered into answering the how was I feeling today. Today I messaged her asking how she was doing and mentioned how my DS was getting on at Uni (which she won’t give a shit about as he is not my favoured niece or my favoured sister) not had a response back yet.

How do I deal going forward my mum is elderly but is a game player? I don’t want to go no contact as I’d feel guilty but ok limiting contact with her and trying to keep her at arms length if I can.

I imagined her funeral the other day brother, sister and two nieces on front row including favourite nieces boyfriend and his mum sister and parents. One of our cousins who my sister is as thick of thieves with on the row behind with my mums brother and his family. Then my sisters many friends. We will either be on the other side or at the back and no doubt niece will be speaking and sister will take on the role of organising it and being the big I am as she knows an undertaker but sister hasn’t got two penny’s to rub together so costs will have to come out of my mums estate.

Hey all

Been radio silent for a bit, hope we’re all doing well

I feel really down today about the whole situation with my DSis. Not much from her since she told me if I didn’t meet her, I wouldn’t have a relationship with her unborn child. Then said she wouldn’t expose a baby to this level of toxicity. I’ve messaged her a couple of times to see how she is, but all she has done is fire back questions of ‘when will you meet me?’

She wants to discuss our sister relationship and why it isn’t working and is refusing to have a ‘virtual carry on’. It is not working because she has bullied me over the last year, and I’ve stepped away from it. That is all. How do I say that plainly and not feel forced to meet her? Does it mean I should stop messaging her altogether? Feels so controlling

DM is repeatedly asking if I’ve heard from her and won’t drop the matter despite not getting on with her own sister, I thought she’d understand better factoring this in.

I have agreed to go on the annual family UK getaway again. I really shouldn’t have, looking back, but if I opt out it looks like just that doesn’t it. Last year all anyone could talk about was the wedding and this year it’ll be the baby (she will be in 3rd trimester by then). Anyone who brought something else up was spoken over the top of either by her or her DH - who does it pleasantly but I think genuinely just does not realise that the focus of attention must be on him. Sod what’s going on in anyone else’s life - my parents or ours. I get she’s excited but it dominates the conversation and makes me feel small and insignificant. If I don’t go, it’ll cause a war.
We are hoping to get a puppy around that time so maybe that’s a valid excuse, but I can’t keep making excuses forever nor do I want to feel like it.

I haven’t yet told my DM that my sister has used her baby as a bargaining chip, should I? Or is it pointless?

@chatterbug22 - don't get sucked into the drama and don't bother telling your DM that your sister is doing the baby bargaining chip thing.

If you're not going to go NC with your sister, then I highly recommend that you learn about Grey Rock Technique.

What your sister is looking for is "triangulation" which keeps the drama going. (Look up Triangulation if you're unfamiliar with it.) Don't rise to any of it and let her stew in her own juices.