April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

Of course NC is not unreasonable. It’s making my skin crawl reading about him. If your mother is so concerned she can have him for Xmas. Don’t on any account be persuaded by her against your better judgement. He sounds vile .

Frankly @Underthehills I think you should be NC with both of your parents.

I went NC with my father 33 years ago today, the day after my 1st wedding. I was 21. I was emotionally blackmailed by my mother to do so (he left her for OW while I was on honeymoon) but I'd barely had any sort of relationship with him for a good decade before that. He'd never wanted to be a father in the first place and started working abroad when I was 9 to avoid family life. I've never seriously regretted being NC with him since.

I've been LC with my mother for 26 years. I deliberately live on the other side of the world from her. She openly blames me for my father having his affair and leaving - I made him 'feel old' by getting married - he was 42. I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was 23 (C-PTSD 5 years ago), and it was my first psychiatrist who helped me realise how damaging my mother was to my mental health. In the last 26 years I've seen her twice, for a total time of about 2 months.

I don't miss the parents I have, I miss the idea of the parents I should have had. I feel so much sadness when I see my friends etc having the 'normal' sort of interactions with their parents, extended family etc. Both my parents managed to alienate their respective extended families while I was still a young child.

You have far more serious reasons to cut your parents out ... if my mother ever dared to call me a 'fucking martyr' she'd be cut out on the spot. Listen to your husband, he is right, your father is a sexual predator and shouldn't be anywhere near you or your family. If you aren't willing to go NC or even LC with your mother, you need to tell her that you won't discuss your father with her, full stop. If she starts you leave, or if she is at your home, you tell her to shut up about him or she can leave, her choice. I've always remembered that one of the first things my first psychiatrist told me was that I should tell my parents to fuck off more often!

Does anyone else have a mum who just barks orders at them? Never says please, thank you or sorry? Then gets highly offended when I don't follow said orders?

Funny enough the golden DC, first born only son would never even be asked a question by her, never mind given an order.

I'm seriously starting to think about going LC. The last time I did that (many years ago) I was accused of only speaking to her when I want something, as she'd called me enquiring about Christmas presents! You can't win with some people.

@Underthehills so sorry to hear about your parents treatment of you. They do not sound like good people and especially when it comes to your father (and most likely your mum too), you do not owe him anything. I think you could to start believing in and following your instincts, especially when it comes to exposing your daughter to your father. Your DH has said he doesn't want him around either. He's giving you panic attacks, that is very serious. There are some huge red flags so all I can say is, tune There is help available through SS but he's rejecting it. There isn't going to end well whatever you do or do not do, because you hate his guts for good reason. You're trying to be polite but putting yourself and daughter at risk.
Do you have any siblings who can help share this burden?
As for your mother, definitely tell her to fuck off. If she is so desperate for him to die alone then she can go round there and sort him out.
My mother (suspected covert narc) was like this about my father attending my wedding. I had been NC with my father for five years, I begrudgingly invited him after she manipulated me (they are divorced and have no relationship, I have no idea why she wanted him there), but he was terrible to me on my wedding day and left without saying goodbye. It was a big mistake and was so triggering for me. Anyway, all I can say is this is typical narc behaviour, trying to cause you pain and create drama.

Update on covert narc mother, now sending our family group chat (primarily as somewhere to share pics of my child) desperate messages saying she missed us all so much, and then deleted it a few hours later when no wonder responded and sent her more pictures which she demanded. Boo boo! She has obviously realised I am not happy with her after her poor behaviour of late.

Considering cutting ties with my mom.

I'm gonna start off by apologizing for how long this post is, as there is just so much needed background information.

I (21F) just had my first baby in June 2022. I'm engaged, got a new car, moved in with my fiance, and basically just living my life. My mom (41F) met my daughter for the first time while I was in the hospital and hadn't seen her again until she was 2 months old (despite me not feeling 100% comfortable with her doing so again), despite me attempting to schedule days she could come down to visit her.

My mom and I haven't had the best relationship in YEARS, starting when I was back in high school. She'd kicked me out and called the cops on me a total of 5 times, lied to the cops, our church, our family, and family friends about me (I abused her and my baby brother, I called her derogatory names, I put my hands on her, etc., ALL because I would stop talking to her - yes, I know now how disrespectful that was to her, but being a teenager and figuring that both arguing/not arguing with her didn't work, I decided to just go mute towards her). When I was graduating high school, I didn't want to invite her to my graduation because I was already incredibly hurt by her. And despite me telling her I don't like to be touched by people I'm not on good terms with, she still made it a thing to hug me and such (I kept trying to put my siblings between us, but she wasn't having it). She would also keep me from my 2 younger siblings who missed me very much. I wasn't even allowed to speak to them unless I spoke to her. She offered to get me a limo for my prom, but wouldn't give me my birth certificate unless I could speak to her (I told her I cared more about having my birth certificate than prom entirely as I needed a form of ID since I only had my school ID).

Long story short, after her kicking me out (which started at 15yo), calling the cops on me, lying to countless people about me, only to try to play the loving and caring single mother whenever I accomplished something nice for myself, I never saw her the same and kept her at arms length.

However, about midway through my pregnancy (idk if she was drunk, high, or whatever else), we were on the phone one night, and she basically ranted to me about things I have literally NEVER done or said to her. We were on the phone, and just so I could listen to what she had to say, I let her go on as I (unbeknownst to her) took note of everything she said to me.

I tried talking to her about a week later after I was able to talk to my therapist and evaluate my feelings and a good way to approach her about said topics. She started crying (as she always does whenever someone has a problem with her), proclaimed she wasn't perfect, again accused me of things I never did or said to her (WITH WITNESSES WE BOTH HAVE), and then tried to flip it on me as if I have never done right by her or supported her.

A few weeks later, she went on to curse me out via text, blame my feelings toward her on my pregnancy hormones, tried to talk bad about me at my baby shower to my fiance and future in-laws, yet still told me how beautiful I looked and how proud of me she was after the baby shower that night around midnight. I spent like 2 weeks crying because of some of the very hurtful things she had said to/about me, the lies she tried to spread about me, and just how much she was stressing me out.

AFTER I had my daughter, she continued to be "confused" as to why I cut communication with her, went around telling people she might have to take me to court for "grandparent visitation rights", and then went crying to her dad (my grandfather) about how I was being oh so mean to her.

Finally, after 4 family therapists and over 5 years of going back and forth with her, I feel like I'm at my wits end. I really want to cut ties with her, but I also battle morally and religiously about respecting my parents.

It hurts because she's the only parent I really had growing up, but at the same time, SHE isn't good for my mental/emotional health and, despite how kindly and loving she may have interacted with my daughter, I fear her kindness and love is only temporary until something doesn't go her way. And the last thing I want is for us to butt heads again, and then she tries to down talk me to my own kids in an attempt to make me seem like a bad daughter to her and mother to them.

what sort of professional services should I be pointing them towards?

What ever their needs are - financial planning? inheritance planing? elderly care provision in the home or alternative housing? professional emotional support? Etc.

Hello, wonderful women, I've been reading and treasuring your posts before gathering the courage to post my own story. I would love to hear some advice from fellow survivors.

My family of origin was very toxic. My father was an alcoholic who was verbally and emotionally abusive and who also inappropriately touched me and made inappropriate sexual remarks to me. My mother worked shifts so she was never there at night and I was left alone with him. When I tried to talk to her about his behaviour, she told me to stop feeling sorry for myself.

I moved out as soon as I could, worked my way through university, and then moved overseas permanently. I went NC with my father, which caused all kinds of fall out, including flying monkey letters of doom from my eldest brother (Golden Child) who came down on me like a hellfire preacher. So I went NC with him, too. I tried to salvage my relationships with my mother and other brother. Sometimes it seemed to work, sometimes it was uncomfortable and sometimes my mother could say extremely hurtful things, like I'm lucky my husband married me because "he could have married someone pretty." Her actual words!

Meanwhile my father and GC brother both died. (GC was, surprise, also an alcoholic who died of his alcoholism).

Meanwhile, an ocean away from my family of origin, I thrived. Over the years I built up a beautiful, successful career. I am very happily married to a caring husband and I have wonderful, supportive friends. I made the choice not to have children. Finally, after decades of working hard and saving, my husband and I bought our beautiful dream house in a dream location.

On the "Daughters of Narcissists" site, a woman go goes by the alias of "Light" wrote how going NC with a toxic family is like leaving a horrible dark attic and building your own beautiful home from scratch with safe boundaries and clear perceptions. Building my new life has felt like that for me.

Recently my surviving brother and SIL wanted to take my mother to visit me in my new home. I felt a bit cagey about having them all in my space at once for longer than a week, but I felt like I couldn't refuse. My mother is getting older and I was told it might be the last time she is fit to make this overseas journey. My body said NO, but, out of social conditioning/emotional blackmail, and I said yes.

For the first three days of their visit, things seemed to go well and I got my hopes up that the dysfunction was in the past and that we had all healed and could move on. But then my mother started to say some very shaming, emotionally abusive things to me, even reminiscing about the "paddlings" she used to give me when I was a very young child and how much I cried when she "got carried away." She told this as an amusing story. Meanwhile my SIL was preening to her, as though competing with me to be the better daughter and auditioning to be the new GC. The mobbing and verbal abuse continued until I felt that the worst of my childhood traumas were being re-enacted within what was meant to be the safety and sanctuary of my own home. I barricaded myself in my home office and my husband managed to get them to book an earlier flight home.

Even after they've left, I've experienced flashbacks and nightmares where I wake up screaming. Even though, before their visit, I thought I was "over" all this.

I no longer phone them because that would be way too triggering after the visit, but meanwhile I get email and social media messages as if nothing bad happened and I'm supposed to pretend that everything is marvellous.

How can I set my boundaries and take the space to heal without creating more conflict and drama? Thanks for any advice.

You did brilliantly to get away and build your life.

This last experience just shows that you need to block them all and go NC.

Be satisfied in yourself that YOUR intentions were good but they just couldn’t make the cut.

I say it lots on this thread but I find it helpful to see them as specific animals - it’s their nature. It’s not “if” it’s “when” they will sting, savage, maul, attack.

Mine are scorpions and hyenas - they don’t come in my home.

I would invest in some professional emotional support after this emotional crisis to move you on to another chapter. Seems that you always had the hope - understandably - that your mother would come good after your father and brother death.

Lots of shock and grief to process there.

But you have a great foundation of support and distance to work on - don’t let this destabilise you.

Thank you so much for your feedback, DFOD. That's very valuable advice. They are very much like hyenas and scorpions.

To everyone here, hello!

Been busy with work, health, life.

@DFOD you sum up perf3ctly how to deal with the abusers. Me and Mr Monkey have put this into practice and as you say, it is NOT easy to push through it. The abusers hate it and will fight back with every tool in their box: abuse, martyrdom, using flying monkeys, guilt trips. But to anyone struggling every step of that is hugely helpful.

It does get easier. I've not seen my toxic mother in law in any great way since Xmas 2021 which she wrecked, then sometime in spring (I think, but probably not), then in the summer for a meal with her grandchildren where she was DREADFUL. I'm veering on the NC end of LC now. Both Mr Monkey and I have had counselling which has helped immeasurably. His boundaries are fantastic.

She's returning the favour with VERY deliberately forgetting my birthday but remembering my mum’s the day after. She's also been leaving any gifts we've ever given her - chosen by me obvs - in the foyer of her flat for people to help themselves to.

So, it's war. That's fine. I'm not going to my grave any time soon knowing that I'm hated.

Thing is I'm not engaging, so it must be hugely disappointing for her.

Normally, in early September she starts the shit about Xmas which is all about muscling into the nice Xmas we have with Mummy Monkey. It runs and runs, ramps up every day, and then Xmas day is a car crash as we invite her. NEVER AGAIN AFTER 2021.

She took great pleasure in wrecking it and I think she wanted an invite for 2022 with the line “you won't invite me again” (to guilt trip) on Boxing Day. Long silence from Mr Monkey and I.

So, this year because of no contact by me I think she realises that no invite is forthcoming. It's bliss.

There MAY be a cheap Xmas meal somewhere, but she is NOT going to my mum’s or coming here. Moving to laptop to book meal after this post!

TBH if she was my ‘mother’ I would not be in contact and I would leave her to rot. It's all she deserves.

It's funny that so many people report that Xmas is far from the most wonderful time of the year. They just like the drama and spite.

@IMadeNarcMumBingo that made me howl. Bang on.

@winningeasy thank you for your reply. I’m an only child and the only living relative either of them has, otherwise I’d have gone NC with both a long time ago. My relationship with my mother is better these days. I’ve done a lot of therapy and went NC with her for some time so she knows I mean it and is more cautious. That day I gritted my teeth while she ranted at me until she pushed me too far, so I stopped the car on a country lane and told her to fucking get out and walk. She behaved after that. She is a baggage but has some good qualities so there is a bit of light in the relationship.

@SilverLiningPlaybook he really is, isn’t he? He’s a covert narc and hides it under being excessively polite and making people feel that he’s vulnerable, which I have fallen for for years. It was only when I saw him flirting with a pretty junior doctor at A&E that I realised he treats me in just the same way. It was a horrible realisation but made sense of far too many things. Since then I’ve not been able to unsee it in every interaction we have. It’s only when I put it down in writing that I acknowledge just how bad it is though. He has a thin veneer of extreme niceness which makes it feel very difficult to challenge him and he switches to very nasty in a flash so in truth I’m a bit scared of him. It’s crap. Time for NC. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

So how do you go NC with a parent? Do you tell them? Just disappear? Write a letter? I’m a bit afraid of his reaction - anger or a guilt trip or both.

And they both took me to so many stately homes that I now work with them for a living 🤔

@noirchatsdeux thank you for your reply, I howled through the Queen’s funeral as I realised I’ll only ever grieve for what should have been. It’s such a void. I am definitely better at telling people to fuck off in better time these days - years of therapy, living the life I want and a wonderful DH who defends me fiercely. The rest of my life is devoted to doing better with my DCs.

Can I join please? I am mid 50’s eldest child. My mum wasn’t much of a mother to me after my brother was born just before I was 3 (he has a disability so as a mother and adult I get this at times each of your children sometimes need you more at different times for different reasons). She then went onto have my sister when I was 8.

I remembered being told look after your sister and take your sister for a long walk I’m old and tired and need to tidy up I was 8 1/2!! Yet my mum was significantly younger than I was when I had my first DC and I received no support from her whatsoever). I couldn’t hang about with my friends at Secondary School as I usually had to look after my sister and take her out with me. I didn’t really feel loved or liked and felt largely invisible until I was 15 when she seemed to suddenly realise I was growing up and wanted to behave like my best friend (it felt too little too late). My sister was totally spoiled money wise and everything else wise by my parents and over the years she has received money for different things.
Anyway fast forward my younger sister had a baby just before I did. My sister ended her relationship with her DD’s father days before my first DC was born. Then she played the single parent, postnatal depression, feckless youngest child card to ensure neither myself or my two DC close in age rarely if ever got a look in. My niece was always there at my mums house and she was treated like my mums fourth child and was always held in high esteem as the first grandchild. My mum always talked about my niece and how funny she was or later what a hard time she was having as she had no dad and almost as an after thought would say to me how are the children (like they were no relation to her or she didn’t know their names).
Yet my sister got free childcare for work, frequent nights out, to tidy up, to have time to herself, to go shopping etc. Whereas, we had to pay for childcare or a sitter and never got a night out unless my IL’s visited from 3 1/2 hours away and rarely even got a visit or to spend time with my mum when my niece wasn’t there. I couldn’t even see my mum on her own with my DC ever. If I ever suggested is their a particular day a week, an afternoon or a morning when my DC could see you on their own at yours, you could you visit us on your own or we could have a day out (as my niece screamed if my mum even glanced at my DC. It was always a no as she couldn’t possibly ask my sister not to call round with my niece, she liked to stay in and have a day off if she wasn’t looking after my niece and she wanted to stay in and she often didn’t know my sisters plans in advance she just calls round incase she was needed or incase they called round etc. If I didn’t phone or go round weeks would pass before my mum would make contact even then it was a quick call she was never in the wrong and couldn’t help it didn’t realise, didn’t know if hat she had done wrong and I was either imagining it, was petty or being unjustifiably jealous etc.

Now she can’t go out with me for the day if I ask her to go uptown, go for a meal, go for a coffee, visit a relative yet when my eldest DC
left for Uni because of her anxiety my mum declined our offer.

Yet if my niece or my sister invite her out somewhere the day before or the day after I have asked she is off like a rat up a drain pipe. If I say anything even when my mum has let it slip and its rubbed in my face I am being over sensitive, it wasn’t her fault they just phoned and said they were picking her up she didn’t know she was going there until a short time before she didn’t mean to hurt me or offend me.

@Underthehills your story is really hard. I’m so sorry that you’ve endured that.

The sexualisation thing is another form of entitlement. Did you see an interview with Trump, Uber narc, where he talked about his daughter Ivanka in such a dodgy way? It was shocking.

The charm switch is so familiar. Horribly so.

Please, please, PLEASE don’t take the care on. It’s another form of control and the narcs get far more entitled with age. Just phase out the contact if that’s easier than just ending it. That’s what I’ve done with the Hag MIL. Nothing is to be gained by talking to bad parents as they will guilt trip or abuse you. Huge hugs to you.

well, I’ve fucked up. Rang the pub to book the cheapest most basic Xmas lunch snd they are FULLY BOOKED. Since April!!! I should have booked it in January. It’s put me on edge all day. To be honest, Mr Monkey should have done it, but didn’t. It’s the age old story of women doing the emotional labour. Eye roll.

I’m in a foul mood.

However, I’m not ringing round to find somewhere, and I’m certainly not spending £66 a head for her to be an absolute c**t to us and the waiting staff as experienced on my past contact with her in August. I don’t actually think I can go back there - it’s a favourite place - as she was so rude.

And she is NOT coming to my mum’s. Xmas Day will be my mum, Hag, me and Mr Monkey here in our tiny dining room. Three hours tops. She gets really tired anyway and dosing her up with wine shuts her up. Mr Monkey can cook. And I’ll sous chef so I don’t have to sit in a room with her.

Then on Boxing Day we will go to my mum’s for the rest of Xmas. Hag can rot in her slum.

I have categorically told Mr Monkey that he doesn’t engage with her Xmas bullshit which normally starts in early Sept, and does not tell of the plans as she will be HIDEOUS for months.

TBH she’s not asking as she knows she’s not having ANY kind of invite to my mum’s ever again. She can’t cope with the fear of rejection; but on the other hand, the fucking Bitch is probably waiting for an invite because she’s so entitled. But I actually think she knows she’s fucked it up. Most people would apologise if they upset someone so badly. Not her.

I’ve told MM that he’s not talking to his brother the Slave about it as he’s so battered into submission that he’ll tell her now. I’ve vaguely said to MM that Slave Son could come here, but he won’t cope with our stairs. TBH I don’t want him here either. Seeing the dysfunctional relationship between Hag and her Stand In Husband is stomach turning. With any luck she’ll have a huge outburst of martyrdom on Xmas Eve and not come. Praying already. I don’t think MM has realised what an ordeal it is for me to have her in our house. I've just explained. It’s like he’s forgotten the TEN weeks of HELL in total over two years (20/21j the Fucking Bitch was here. I've just spelt it out.

“It's terrible having her here. Have you forgotten about the counselling we both had to have?”

Awful as it sounds I hope something happens so she doesn't come or it is my last xmas with her.

CHRIST ON A BIKE.

MonkeyfromManchester . Good to hear from you again . I have missed your updates . I’m just wondering why do you feel you have to invite her at all ? Let her stay home with other son . She doesn’t deserve your families company at all !

@MonkeyfromManchester there really is no need to endure this. You have no obligation here to this woman - but you do have an obligation to your own emotional well-being. It sounds like this arrangement will cause you mounting distress for the next 3 months.

Do your own thing. Make that decision right now and you will be so relieved. Don’t have her in your home. Send your DP over with a cooked meal to her for a couple of hours. But do your own thing.

I didn’t see my MIL for 4 years before her death. I have zero regrets. Best decision of my life as I spent far too long trying to make the miserable cow happy. Totally pointless.

@Ydkiml thank you. This place keeps me sane. I honestly don't know why I have to think this way. It's not pressure from Mr Monkey. I think it's the way I've been brought to be kind. There's not a lot of self-kindness in having her remotely near me. I'm going to give it serious thought. Talking to my therapist about it.

@DFOD that’s a good idea...my only thing would not having Xmas lunch with him. Slave Son wouldn't go. He quite fancied the pub, but sitting in her slum living room wouldn't appeal. Going to think it through.

Ridiculously, she kicked off about fuck knows what in 2020 on Xmas Eve - we had the honour of bubbling with her 😂- and had a massive strop and didn't come to ours on Xmas Day. This after the three months of hell which was based on god only knows what toxic shit in her twisted head. Me and Mr Monkey got so pissed with relief slash joy on Xmas Eve that we slummed it in our PJs with pizza on Xmas Day with shocking hangovers. My mum had a great time with my brother and his boyfriend. Not spending the next three months dealing with her shit. MM is forbidden talking to her about anything Xmas related.

She's going to LOVE that we’re taking my mum away next week to Wales for a holiday. Wine, open fire, good food. Hag can never get her head around the lack of an invite. Jesus, a HOLIDAY with her. The thought.

I totally get giving up trying to please the toxic MILs and having NOTHING to do with them. Was she jealous of your relationship with DH? Going virtually NC with the Hag has been a blessing. Not 100% there, but getting better at it.

I hadn’t considered it in terms of jealousy before - but that’s likely an element. She was just a very bitter negative person about everything and everyone. A grandiose, deluded alcoholic - what a combination!

I am raging that I spent any of my finite headspace, time and emotional energy focused on pleasing her and then seething about her.

All I had to do was look behind her to realise she didn’t have a single friend her whole life - everyone swerved her - I was the only ‘people pleasing’ fool trying to make her happy.

What a waste of time until I silently detached and chose to proactively and intentionally spend my time, energy and emotions on mutually fulfilling relationships and activities which enhanced my life no end.

Don’t let her live in your head rent free. She is still yanking your chain and preoccupying you negatively. Let your DP deal with her one to one - she will be delighted with this. Drop the rope. Allow him slots of time to ‘manage her’ in the knowledge that she thinks she is winning the battle but you have won the war. NC - no need to announce it!

Totally agree with the above suggestion, NC but don’t announce it to her. It’s kinda your secret . Let your partner tell her that after her behaviour last Xmas , you have both decided that you both prefer a quiet Xmas and this is what’s happening from now on . Of course she will make every effort to spoil it for you all but you’ll be prepared! You owe her nothing . She does not deserve being in your home . She can stay at home on her own , in her own company with the telly because that way , she can enjoy her own selfishness , rudeness , and bitterness . Sounds like a good Christmas for her ! He could take some dinner round and a lovely mince pie , some wine and after eight mints . ! What a lovely Christmas she’d have . !! But not as good as yours 👍

Misery and mints ! I actually think she’d enjoy that !

Oh and also , what a lovely / kind / thoughtful thing to do for her ( and I’m not being sarcastic this time ) a 3 course Christmas meal served with wine , with no added arsenic, delivered to her f**k off flat !

I can't believe the shit we all have to put up with. Except I can.

In answer to the question "how do you go NC with a parent" from @Underthehills - it doesn't really matter, because however you do it they will kick off and you will become the villain of the piece.

The way I did it was to say one day at my mother's house "I'm sick of being slagged off and I'm not doing this any more". Then I left, never went back, never spoke to any of my FOO again. The main agitator was my Toxic Sister, enabled by her arsehole husband. I'd been the scapegoat and emotional punchbag for years and one day I had just had enough.

Going NC isn't easy. I felt utterly heartbroken by the way I had been treated. But toxic people are bad news and I have learned to stay away from vexatious people who thrive on causing trouble and drama.

A bit further down the line I moved house and kept my new address confidential. None of my FOO know where I live.

I am certain that my sister has a personality disorder. Not sure if it's narc, or borderline, or emotionally unstable, but sure as shit there's something going on there. I'm well out of it.

@MonkeyfromManchester - I remember all the drama over Christmas run up with The Hag. You know that her Christmas day is not your responsibility, right? Mr M feels bad I guess as he's still caught up in the FOG, but frankly I'd be putting a turkey TV dinner tray in her freezer and leaving her to her own devices. DO NOT HAVE THAT WOMAN IN YOUR HOUSE!

Hugs and solidarity to all.