April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

Hello!
Just popping to jot down latest with my parents to get it out my head. We are in the process of moving house, this week has been insanely stressful and I can't see much will change over the next couple of months.

My mum responded to me saying we are scraping together every penny to get as big a deposit as we can with
"We've decided to sell the holiday flat. We're going to use the money to do more travelling"

Fair enough. I'm not asking them for money but the tone deafness was pretty stark!

@chatterbug22 definitely don't check in with her anymore, it's giving her more leverage. And definitely don't gossip about her to your mum. Go on the family trip if you feel you have to, but perhaps set some boundaries eg you will go for one night rather than two, or just stay for the day, or stay in a different accommodation to them.

Focus on your new puppy and your family - and try to enjoy the peace and quiet instead of being sucked in again and again x

@Spotchnot get it on the market and run for the hills! Totally tone deaf.

My mum was the same when her partner got a load of money recently and we were struggling to pay for wedding / new baby / get deposit together etc - she just kept banging on about her new kitchen. Everything was about that kitchen for months and months.

If you are so self centred then your world becomes smaller and smaller as life goes on... that's part of the reason the narcissism escalates as they age I think.

I've managed to evict thoughts of my mum from head this week thank god. I almost blew up but avoided it. I am just doing nothing.

@Sicario @winningeasy

Thank you, you have sound advice. I don’t know why I can’t just hear it once and need to read it over and over for some reason. I need to establish better boundaries. It hurts that I feel I’ll always have second place in the family dynamic, but I suppose that’s not my burden to bear. My mum’s close friend is more like my auntie, I’ve known her all my life- I think she detects something amiss, she has messaged me tonight saying I can tell her anything and she won’t tell. She also messaged me prior to DSis wedding - really early in the morning (I think it was 5am) and told me she knew the day would be hard and to keep smiling and being me. Bit cheesy and possibly entirely unrelated but I had wondered why she’d be up that early and thinking to message me. I have to wonder if she sees it. I would have her round for a coffee but that is really going behind DM’s back - least she’d see it that way should she ever find out - so probably not smart. I just want to give her a hug for checking on me and caring enough to notice… but perhaps it’s obvious to everyone all around. At least, my friends have never met her and although possibly biased have expressed reservations on her long before I did.

I just wish it didn’t have to be this way. How do you stop wishing the person was different?

@chatterbug22 no harm in you striking up a friendship with this woman if she brings you comfort. Honestly, stop giving a stuff about what impact you living your life joyfully has on your family. Any normal mother would not begrudge you striking up a friendship with their friend. Your mother has not raised you and your sister as friends, you have clearly been pitted against each other and this is why you are where you are with your sister.

I would say this woman probably does see it, doesn't mean that has to be the main crux of the relationship, I would just focus on trying to get external support outside of your frankly unsupportive family and maybe she is one route to that.

I know it's hard to not wish for someone to be different, but there's honestly nothing you can do.

For me, I see my family as more like a weird micro cult and I've broken free. I am here for anyone else who can see and recognise it but I don't grasp for it anymore.

Hugs x

Anyone else keep a dossier of wrongs from narc relatives?

For me it's useful to refer back to if I am ever doubting myself or think 'well maybe they are not that bad' / 'maybe i am the problem'

I have one for childhood memories / flashbacks and one for more recent stuff considering things have got so much worse recently with my mum since my child was born

It's useful to refer to during therapy sessions too x

Also find listening to Lily Allen 'Fuck You' very cathartic too!

Yes I call it “My Little Book of C**t” (if you remember “My Little Book of Calm”?)

Very helpful to spot the “plausible deniability” incidents - because often most bullying episodes on their own are calibrated enough to wound but at the same time leave you with self doubt / confusion as to if you are “over-reacting” - so you don’t speak out at the time.

When you see the totality and consolidation of these all in one place - the repeated patterns there is no doubt what is going on.

I do too. Just to reassure myself when doubt sets in and I start to question myself if I over-thought it, if I was too sensitive about it (that ol’ chestnut!) etc.for confirmation that yep, those situations really did take place ☹️

Even now, I find there are still situations to add to it….at school pick-up a sentence that another mum innocently says will out of nowhere bring back a memory of a painful situation.

@Parishcouncil yes new memories unlock every day, some of my earliest memories. Most recently it was my mum telling me 'well you know magic doesn't exist' at a very young age (the age where you're supposedly be preserving the illusion) and just feeling so bloody gutted. She did it to be spiteful and to hurt me, after I had asked for a magic kit for Xmas. This is how she has been throughout my entire life.

Anyway I believe magic exists at the age of 40! And I am so focused on creating this for my child.

YES!@winningeasy re giving our children what we didn’t have…categorically yes. To the point where I drive myself up the wall questioning myself if I did the right thing by my DD yesterday, the other day, in that situation last month, doing that thing last year, giving her that response to that query that time….it literally is all-consuming. Even told a friend recently that sometimes I feel the need to speak to her Headteacher to make sure I haven’t mucked her up psychology.

In this house we purposely have so, so many photo albums of experiences and happy memories as a unit, the 3 of us, of times that we had that unconditional love, quality love, the solid foundation I never had but that my sibling did.

It is no coincidence that I went into childcare for my work, either….

I know for a fact that other people see how difficult my sister and BIL can be. I have seen people walk away from them at social events. My sister is very quick to criticise other people and is unable to have a conversation of any depth. My BIL is all about bragging and bullshit, trying to impress people. They are narc co-dependents.

So it's not just us who see it, although the dynamic we have is different - it's more hurtful and extra fucked-up.

My toxic sister is obviously still slagging me off - I know this because I had a very nasty message from my SIL which clearly came directly from toxic sister. Why they can't all just fuck off and get on with their sad little lives I really don't know.

You might all remember that toxic sister and BIL had me removed as executor of my late mother's will, changed her will, and cut all the grandchildren out (they were all due to inherit a modest amount of cash). Well of course it turns out that they are totally incapable of executing a will and have hired a lawyer to do it. I sent DH to deal with the lawyer - DH reported back that the lawyer was an arrogant little dickhead in a cheap suit and that his offices were absolutely filthy.

Toxic sister has no experience of having to hire a lawyer for anything. She couldn't even hold down a job in the local pub because all she ever does is upset people. So the money meant for the grandkids will now be spent on legal fees. It would be laughable were it not so tragic.

@Sicario absolutely sickening!

Today is hard, I’m struggling.

It’s my sibling’s birthday. Know they’re all playing ‘Happy Families’. In the last call I had I confronted them, asking if they had any idea about how they all made me feel finding excuses for excluding me from ‘family’ events. Met with silence of course.

Today is bringing it home though, the rawness. My aunt who knows everything who I thought was on my side hasn’t checked in on me but I know would have sent him a card and whacked up a FB post and of course, that’s her right, but it’s now
making me feel ostracised even more because she was the only blood relative who ‘got’ me. So this is painful.

His email telling me they have hearts of gold and he can’t think of anything they did to deserve being treated so poorly by me is pure poison. He said himself he doesn’t know the facts yet still sees it fit to assume & judge that it’s me in the wrong.

I haven’t done anything wrong, I didn’t deserve this. I hate them. Pure hate. And I hate myself for it.

@Sicario our situations sound identical. I wish I had more comfort/reassurance for you, but I don’t. Is your sister older or younger than you? Has she always been the same?

@Parishcouncil I get that entirely, you must feel betrayed. She probably just doesn’t want to rock the boat and would rather be seen to outwardly appease. No doubt that it’s fickle though.

@winningeasy thank you for your kindness x

DM now giving me the silent treatment, which is unlike her as usually she’ll message multiple times a day almost to excess. She’s read but not replied to my messages (non offensive, just nice pics of birds and the like), this is the 2nd day now.

DSis had news for the family yesterday, I was invited by my dad to pop over but I declined as I’d had a busy day at work and didn’t particularly want to as she would just be enjoying the attention on her. I tried to message her separately about the news, she has again reiterated if I won’t meet her she won’t tell me. Don’t want to know that much, so long as she’s happy that is absolutely fine but withholding things from me deliberately is a bit manipulative.

Think my lack of attendance is why my mum is now ignoring me but can’t be sure. Feel deflated and really does make me the scapegoat, doesn’t it. I can get over it as I’m not compromising my comfort and general weekend wellbeing for the sake of her convenience.

My dad has recently said that she is ‘on my side just as much’, I don’t really see it. It’s funny as I used to clash with my dad growing up but as time goes on, we seem to understand each other better. He is caught in the middle and ultimately only wants my mum to be happy so will have her back over everything else. Largely though he’s quite neutral and I think he’s perceptive enough to see the wrong, it’s just not worth it for him to challenge it. I don’t overly blame him for that I don’t think - so long as he accepts my position and right to make own choices on how much contact I have with my sister. That’s all I want.

Do feel gutted about my mum and still can’t believe it tbh, though maybe I am overreacting

I am honestly really taken aback that my DM is quite literally just…. ignoring me. Every message I send. In my last message I asked if she was alright since she’d not responded all day… opened and ignored again! It really hurts. Really thought we’d turned a corner and she’d accepted the boundaries I’m putting in with my sister. How do you think is best to navigate this going forwards? Feels honestly like the bloody silent treatment!!!

@chatterbug22 your mum is playing games with you unfortunately. From your messages it seems like she is possibly the root cause of the issues between you and your sister and the roles you appear to play. Your dad seems like he is fairly passive to everything going on which is unhelpful and enabling.

I do think putting some space between you and your family for the time being would make sense as their treatment of you is understandably causing you some pain. The more you are grasping, the more they are withholding and rejecting... if this happened in a friendship or romantic relationship it would be a huge red flag, so make of that what you will.

I would strongly suggest seeking some therapy to unpack what appears to be a fairly toxic dynamic going on here.

@winningeasy You’re right. I just don’t know why some people benefit from playing games, how they even have the energy is beyond me! I know the dynamic is not great and I have enquired with some counsellors and will firm that up in the working week it just really is rubbish and still can’t believe that I am where I am. I don’t know if it will ever sink in at any point! Not sure if you’ve ever felt that way in your situation x

@chatterbug22 Its really hard. I think we all feel a sense of loss and have to mourn the family we deserved but didn't get. I've been filling the gaps since I was in my mid teens and have prioritised other people for as long as I can remember.

I have always been low contact with my family since I left home at 17 (kicked out and went to uni), instinctively I know I needed to keep my distance it was made easy when my parents divorced, my mum moved away and brother left to join armed forces. Four lives scattered.

I have been ultra LC after I didn't turn up to a party he organised to celebrate 10 years of being with his new woman (they don't live together) and nobody from our apart from my enmeshed brother turned up. He sent me a very harsh email about (I had been ill at the time, but it was also in the middle of nowhere and I lived ages away, did not drive at the time and didn't have money for hotel etc) and after they we just slowly drifted apart so it was just Xmas cards. He's never met my partner until the wedding where insulted me and ignored me and left without say goodbye. When we bought our first house i invited him over / he is an electrician so I asked if he could help us with something related to this, and he ignored me. After that I just stopped bothering.

So yes it's been a slow gradual decline and now I'm at the point where I am severing the ties completely as we prepare to move house. I am not enmeshed at all in their lives so it's easier. But there is still that energetic cord (there's a lot of stuff about this if you Google) - these were our first care givers, they kept us alive and gave us the basics at the very least, so it's hard to break the cycle of obligation because of this. On top of this often, they also had it rough (post war generation, poverty etc) so may be of the mind set that providing the basics was enough. However there have always been and will always be beautiful family dynamics full of love even in the poorest and deprived environments.

@chatterbug22
I am dealing with some issues myself (finally) after years of being unable to see the wood for the trees. A lot of my issues are focused on my relationship with my sister also and I totally get what you are saying about it not sinking in.
I am constantly trying to justify how I feel about things and thinking that I am exaggerating the issues and am a terrible person for feeling how I do. It really is exhausting and I don't know what the solution is other than to unpack it all in therapy. I wish I had tackled all this stuff a long long time ago but there we are. Better late than never I suppose and some days I feel I an making good progress only for it all to come crashing down again at the slightest thing.
You really cannot win here by trying to please any of them and your mums treatment of you is v wrong so all I can say is stop trying. Let them all get on with it. Don't fight for scraps of love by texting etc but take the power into your own hands and ignore them all.
Your posts show you to be a caring , empathic person who doesn't deserve their treatment of you . IT IS NOT YOU ! Hold fast to that and be your own best friend by prioritising your emotional needs
I just need to take my own advice now !

Hi,

I’m just reading through the thread and thought I’d say Hi. I can relate so much to what you are all saying.

I read the stately homes thread some years ago and it always stuck in my mind. I’ve been grey rock with my family for many years because otherwise everything is always my fault.

Its come to a head recently because my mother had an operation and I didn’t visit her after (had own stuff going on and she never asked me to visit plus she never supported me during health issues). So she sent me a stroppy text and hasn’t spoken since.

I’ve realised that has brought me some relief although it’s messing with my head a bit too.

I think I’ve been so gaslit for years I actually can’t remember a lot of what’s gone on. It’s like my reality is skewed.

chatterbug

You are going to have to walk away from your parents and sister here because they will all in their own ways keep on hurting you otherwise. You are very much the scapegoat in the family and you are being treated as such by the three of them. Your sister's H is also complicit and is very much like your dad in that he is both a bystander and enabler too; neither man here can be at all relied upon.

You will also have to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got; that is part of the overall healing process.

thisisme2468

Ignore and otherwise delete her stroppy text if you have not already done this and let her stew. I'd enjoy her imposed radio silence in the meanwhile but she'll be likely back when she wants something from you like you giving her more adoration and narcissistic supply. I would also consider blocking all her access to you entirely. Toxic parents also leave their now adult child fear, obligation and guilt and those are three legacies that are hard to overcome.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up either and she has not really changed in all the years since. Abuse like you've described can take time, many years even, to recover from. I would see if you can find a therapist who is thoroughly versed in trauma therapy.

You do not mention your dad here; is he in your life at all now?.

@flapjackfairy thank you, you have the best advice - you really should follow it you’re right! But I know it’s far from easy. Hugs. Always here if you want to DM about our unfortunately similar situations!

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you, you are right. Both very much bystanders. Do not care in the slightest about BIL being the way he is, but I still can’t believe my parents being that way daft as that is. Seems to be reaching a bit more of a head at the minute, what with my mum ignoring me. Met my dad yesterday for a coffee and he listened to me but couldn’t understand on the whole why things had to be the way they were. He said he would have to re-examine his relationship with my sister after what I’d told him as she , according to me, is clearly very calculated. I stayed very calm and responded that they were his words and his reaction to the info I’m giving him is his choice. He said my DM was at home hoping very much that he would manage to resolve this with me… I said, in other words, she’s hoping then that you find a way of making me compromise on my boundaries for the sake of the wider family’s convenience? He didn’t really know what to say to that but told me he had argued with DM about it at the weekend, whatever that means I don’t know. I think he sees my point but it’s not worth it for him to stand by me entirely, which, as you say, isn’t great.

Meeting again with both parents (along with my OH) tonight, at my dad’s request. He wants to find a way to move forward. I was crystal clear yesterday and I will just reiterate what I said if pressed. Made it very clear they will compromise their relationship with me if they continue to push me. I would rather not inevitably feel challenged after a long day at work but if they would like me to be upfront I will do it till the cows come home. Don’t know if this is the right approach mind or if I should bow out, considering I don’t owe them an explanation.