How to make it work if your DH is selfish?

[NCselfishmarriage]

Looking for inspiration / tales of those who have made it work…

I’m in a v long relationship with DH, we have 3 kids under 7. We’ve recently had some marital issues (no cheating or anything just not getting on) and after marriage counselling etc I’ve realised that the core problem for me is that he is a selfish person, and will never ever put me first unless all his needs are taken care of. This first manifested itself when our first, high needs, baby was born and I was on the floor with exhaustion (went back to FT at 4 months) and probably PNA / borderline PND and he utterly failed to show up for me in any way shape or form. This has continued on, with some big examples but also everyday small ones eg if we both go out late, I am always the one to get up early with the kids while he sleeps in until 10am because he’s “tired”, if we’re on hols and we get to the airport he will peel off straight away to go to the loo & get a coffee while I get the kids sorted and then he’ll appear 5mins before boarding and get shirty that we’re late when I try to down a coffee in 2 mins. Just tiny things but they’re cumulative and I’m now so aware of the pattern I can’t unsee it.

BUT. We are 20 years in with 3 kids, and there’s lots of good stuff. I don’t want to split up. I want to just figure out how to manage my own expectations and accept the man I’ve married.

Any tips? (And yes yes LTB but I’m wondering for those who do decide to stay how you manage it. FYI we have a very nice life, no money issues, great sex life etc etc.)

My ex was like this. I lost all respect for him in the end.

I agree with @AnyFucker re: individual counselling.

I was married to a very selfish man. Not a “bad person” I thought but someone who just put his own needs first as standard and had little empathy for me. He did “help” at times but only if it didn’t conflict with his needs or agenda.

It was only when I left him that I started to realise it wasn’t just as it seemed. He wasn’t just a “naturally selfish” person, he was actually very controlling. He was determined to maintain power in the relationship at all costs (after all, when you are exhausted OP, and trying to do everything alone and in a miserable marriage, it is hard to maintain your own sense of power and agency.) There was a whole other side there. OP, I think @AntarcticTern is probably on the right track with your DH.

For what’s it worth, I am remarried to a wonderful man. I am still continually surprised by how much he takes my needs into account, and notices and cares about my feelings. He is also a great step-dad and carries the daily and practical load with me, because even though the DC are not technically “his” responsibility, my DH sees us a team and it just comes naturally to him to share our energy and time. He would never want to see me struggle.

Ex was happy to be an EOW father (and doesn’t like to do too much more than that as he is far too busy and important and tired) and got himself a new partner, very shortly after I left him, who he treats in the same way he did me. If she leaves then he will probably find another one just the same (like replacing an old appliance )

You are describing something a lot like my situation. Kids are 5 and 9. I find the airport/ service station thing infuriating. I sometimes walk off but the moaning afterwards is almost worse. The lie ins are also painful and we have been close to splitting up over them. I now get up as so used to it but ‘hand over’ in the afternoons to do something on my own. I feel happier with this unsaid agreement and quite like the quiet mornings without the groaning. When I need a lie in I tell him very clearly. Sorry, not much help. Comforting to me to know I’m not the only one. X

Oh for gods sakes. This kind of selfishness is standard in men. There are huge Facebook groups of thousands of women dedicated only to this subject. Every bloke in my family for generations. If everybody left a selfish bloke the divorce rate would be 90%! This site is ridiculous sometimes. Of course it shouldn’t be that way but it is. This is still a man’s world. Her life ain’t gonna be any better if she dumps him. She’s then going to be resource poor and trying to co parent with a giant man baby. He won’t do 50% and she’s got to over organise to compensate. How do you think these successful resource rich families operate? The bloke isn’t knee deep in nappies at 3am! For christs sakes…

Also OP, I notice you said :

I don’t see that being divorced would be any better for me, as he’d still be dictating my every move and I’d be wanting to make things ok for the kids

I noticed that looking back. So you are aware that he is dictating your every move and that, on some level, he will attempt to make life more difficult for you if you leave. That isn’t accidental and it isn’t just thoughtlessness on his part.

The happiest group of people in the world are unmarried childless women. For a reason. Men are drains on female resources. It ain’t ever gonna change. The only answer is don’t have multiple children with selfish men.

@Ionlydomassiveones

The kids won’t suddenly wake up and ‘see’ what a selfish horror their dad was. They’ll think it’s normal that women are the domestic handmaids and that men shouldn’t be expected to lift a finger. Great role modelling there.

And they will believe that this is all they as children deserve - minimal and resentful care from their Dad …. then their self worth and expectations of any relationship from friendships onwards will be submissive.

They will also see and experience an exhausted agitated Mum but won’t know why - but will think it’s their fault and this is all they are worth.

Your children are the recipients of this dysfunctional dynamic. This is the toxic soil that they are growing up in. It’s not good enough, it’s deficient and it is already having consequences.

They must feel so rejected by their Dad and a burden to their exhausted mother.

I can’t actually believe that you would consider a weekend nanny to cover his contribution to weekend family life when you have a nanny all week - what is the point of him practically and emotionally to your children and why would YOU go this far to enable and facilitate his dysfunctional behaviour towards your DCs?

why do you think the private schools with week long boarding from age 8 are heaving and over subscribed? It’s not because Daddy loves spending time with his kids is it? It’s because that’s the only way the woman with multiple kids and zero help/support can get her life back and have her own successful career. Just stop trying to fix him and take him out of the equation. Don’t have any more kids and do what you need to do to get your life back

@needmorethanthis it's a bit of an extrapolation that most DCs are in boarding because of selfish men and women trying to get their careers back.

Just as it's not quite right to assume that most men are the same as OPs H.

I do agree that more men appear to be more naturally selfish than women, but OPs H seems somewhat extreme and - let's remember- isn't Mr Big old busy and important high earner as OP earns more.

@rookiemere I completely disagree. I have many friends across all resource levels. Multi millionaires down to struggling resource poor families. Children from babies up to late teens. In every single case apart from two this is a common issue. Lots have divorced because of this. This is common. It’s not unusual. The resource rich women handle it by chucking money at the problem. One of my friends handled it by taking the children and threatening to board a plane back to her home country. She is a high earner. She meant it and would have carried it through and only then did he step up his game but it’s still not 50/50 but better than it was. The OP either needs to deliver an ultimatum that she’s prepared to carry through or take him and his contribution out of the calculations of running family life and downgrade him to a bystander.

and he’s not extreme at all! That’s hilarious. He’s small fry compared to lots of the stories I’ve heard. How about the sick kids at home and husband refusing to come home and help because they are all about to go to the pub for happy hour..,so many examples of shit like this…

Become selfish yourself. Leave the kids with him for an afternoon and go off and enjoy yourself. When you find yourself bending over backwards for him, or thinking about what he likes for dinner (that type of thing) say fuck it, and do what you want. Change your mindset and if he complains, have a list of his shortcomings ready to reel off.

It looks like you’re making progress. There’s no quick fix for you. It’ll be a continual slog with you stating what you need at every turn.
You know certain things like his toilet timing so just pre-empt situations by ‘do your toilet business after you’ve done such and such’

@WinterSunglasses

I'll take the resentment over him doing very little over his moodiness and tantrums.

And this is the crunch. He knows this so plays on it. Same with the moaning when you get back from a trip. I imagine you are then compensating for being away, even if you haven't fully realised it, in subsequent behaviour.

Try working on being unmoved by this. Show verbal sympathy, but do not do anything differently. E.g.
Him: SOO TIRED, moan moan
You: Aww, you are, aren't you (still carrying on with making your own cup of tea or whatever)
Him: MOAN continued moan
You: Aww. Never mind. I'm going to go and catch up on Strictly (leaves room with tea)

You're not criticising, you're just verbally acknowledging but without it affecting you. Not easy as you'll be conditioned to pander. But if it stops getting results, his motivation to do it also fades.

Not saying this solves some of the problems around household labour. But it is something you have more control over.

Good idea...say oh dear..sorry your tired...thats parenting for you..its hard

@Hillwalker1 I am sorry you have the same issue. Your post is spot on for me.

I guess I am looking for more women like Hillwalker who are in similar situations - fore solidarity and tips. As another PP said, I don’t believe this is at all an uncommon situation.

The PP who talked about the getting au pair etc - I think the difference between me and those women is that presumably they are all SAHM and their lifestyle is dependent on their Hs. Their kids have one stable parent (the woman). I am FT at work, if we opt out of parenting anymore our children will literally be raised by nannies and that is my red line. Plus I am financially independent - to the PP who asked what happens to me if he found someone else and left, I’d be absolutely fine, I am a high earner / financially independent in my own right and could continue without a penny more from him and indeed if he took the family house it’d still be fine.

Why did we have 3 kids? We had the first via ivf and then had oopsie twins - I fell pregnant from a mini pill fail when no 1 was 14 months old. I cried when I found out. But there you go.

I am in individual counselling fwiw and my therapist actually says she can see the holistic picture of my DH and that I have positive reasons for staying. (The other more practical reason is that we live in the US, DH is American and I’d be stuck here with my family in the U.K. if we split.) But I will continue with the counselling.

All food for thought though, so thank you to all.

Were your DCs born in the US? What would happen if you left him, does your eligibility to work rely on remaining married to him?

I read your update. Every independent high earning woman I know (other than those that have willing grandparents/sisters in the same town) have an au pair/nanny/cleaners/gardener/dog Walker. A friend of mine earns six figures and the au pair lives in the house and does all of the school drop offs/pick ups. It’s standard I’m afraid and the only way they can go to late meetings etc.

Another friend who is a high earner had a toddler then twins and she also had a live in nanny/au pair. Not a huge detached house but a terraced town house with a loft conversion for the live in help.

If you are really determined to maintain this relationship, then I'd say buy in help... but not for him, for you. Yes, it does mean that if you want a lie in you have to pay for it (literally) but do not even consider buy-in in any help for any of the things he does do.

I honestly think that there's something about the way society has indoctrinated men to make them take a "me first" way. A bit like on a plane when they do the safety video and they always say, "get your face mask on first before helping others". This seems to be a man's default position. I used to get SOOO annoyed with DH as we'd come through the door and he'd make himself a sandwich before organising food for DS. His view was that he was so hungry he couldn't look after DS or stay calm if he didn't eat. Mine was that he was the bloody grown up and if he'd allowed himself to get that low in the first place, he was being a dick.

The airport thing is really shocking. I don’t know how you come back from being treated like that to be honest. If you really won’t leave I think you have to act as if you are a single parent. Don’t expect anything from him but as the same time don’t do anything to help him.

I haven't RTFT, just the OP's posts & a selection of others. However, I have an extremely clear memory of DC being 8 months old and my sitting on a beach with one of my aunties.She said, in the manner of one passing on uncontestable wisdom, "Elegant Puma all men ate selfish. Even the best of them. And if they do do something you ask, it will be because it suits them anyway." I've never forgotten that, although it was twenty years ago. She was right.

Are! Are, not ate!

@needmorethanthis we do have a nanny - 55hrs a week. During the week. When we work.

@ElegantPuma well yes exactly I do sometimes think that’s what men are like. Especially a lot of the (successful professional) men I tend to come into contact with.

@EatSleepReplete I have a green card but I don’t know what happens to that if I divorce. I think I keep it. DCs were born in England but are US citizens as children of DH.

At the airport, beat him to it. Bugger of the millisecond you get through security.

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