How to make it work if your DH is selfish?

[NCselfishmarriage]

Looking for inspiration / tales of those who have made it work…

I’m in a v long relationship with DH, we have 3 kids under 7. We’ve recently had some marital issues (no cheating or anything just not getting on) and after marriage counselling etc I’ve realised that the core problem for me is that he is a selfish person, and will never ever put me first unless all his needs are taken care of. This first manifested itself when our first, high needs, baby was born and I was on the floor with exhaustion (went back to FT at 4 months) and probably PNA / borderline PND and he utterly failed to show up for me in any way shape or form. This has continued on, with some big examples but also everyday small ones eg if we both go out late, I am always the one to get up early with the kids while he sleeps in until 10am because he’s “tired”, if we’re on hols and we get to the airport he will peel off straight away to go to the loo & get a coffee while I get the kids sorted and then he’ll appear 5mins before boarding and get shirty that we’re late when I try to down a coffee in 2 mins. Just tiny things but they’re cumulative and I’m now so aware of the pattern I can’t unsee it.

BUT. We are 20 years in with 3 kids, and there’s lots of good stuff. I don’t want to split up. I want to just figure out how to manage my own expectations and accept the man I’ve married.

Any tips? (And yes yes LTB but I’m wondering for those who do decide to stay how you manage it. FYI we have a very nice life, no money issues, great sex life etc etc.)

How have you stayed so long, and continue to have sex with, a selfish entitled man like this, even when you are the higher earner?

Perhaps you need to work on your self esteem, or the role models you had growing up?

Rules? Like, if he doesnt feel the need to be empathic and kind, he has to have rules such as - at the airport I have to take responsibility for xyz before I can have a coffee, or we take turns to get up with the kids. Takes the emotion out of it a bit. But ultimately, unless he has a spectrum disorder, he knows he is selfish and doesnt care. Which would be a deal breaker for me.

I read your thread title and thought why would you want to make it work with someone selfish?!

I've read your other posts and still think that!

@RachelGreeneGreep exactly....another Geller.

But Polly at least accepted how toxic the whole set up was for her girls.

The OP doesn't seem to understand that her lazy, selfish, self absorbed waster of a husband who could care less about anyone but himself, will be utterly transparent to his children in no time.

Children miss nothing.
The see it, they know it.
The may not have the language to explain it, but they know when a parent is a waster.

OP, that you can have great sex with someone so selfish is extraordinary IMO.

He sounds ghastly.

I suspect you may well be one of those women who stays but ends up buried by her regret at a wasted life.

Both your children and yourself deserve better.

Why bother, honestly. I don’t think any of your opening examples were small things, they all sound like dealbreakers to me as they tell me not to grow old with him. Split, let him pay for weekend nannies his weekends out of his own pay check instead of your larger joint pay check, or do you think he’d never see them again for more than a few hours?

If you do stay, make a promise to yourself that you won’t be his carer, that you’ll just leave if it comes to that. He will never be your carer, and you should not have to sacrifice your later life also to the altar of his selfishness. My Dh would never help either me or with the dc even when tiny babies when I was sick. I told him I wasn’t growing old with this version of him as there was no chance I’d be caring for him when old and unwell after this so I’d better leave now and have a chance to live a full life and find someone who was worth sticking with in their old age, and I meant it. (He saw how selfish he was and changed)

@timeisnotaline

Why bother, honestly. I don’t think any of your opening examples were small things, they all sound like dealbreakers to me as they tell me not to grow old with him. Split, let him pay for weekend nannies his weekends out of his own pay check instead of your larger joint pay check, or do you think he’d never see them again for more than a few hours?

If you do stay, make a promise to yourself that you won’t be his carer, that you’ll just leave if it comes to that. He will never be your carer, and you should not have to sacrifice your later life also to the altar of his selfishness. My Dh would never help either me or with the dc even when tiny babies when I was sick. I told him I wasn’t growing old with this version of him as there was no chance I’d be caring for him when old and unwell after this so I’d better leave now and have a chance to live a full life and find someone who was worth sticking with in their old age, and I meant it. (He saw how selfish he was and changed)

Wow good for you for giving him that ultimatum

He will take on caring for the kids when I’m sick and do a great job. Just not when I’m sick AND he’s sick. Or I’m sick AND he has some important work to do. He does step up sometimes, but not when it’s in conflict with his needs. Which is what makes it tricky.

Another thread worth reading, a much happier woman now that she has ditched the deadweight.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4125147-Divorcing-sulking-DH-it-WILL-happen-in-2021?

If he is the one making it broken then all you can do, if you want it to not bother you, is pretend it does not bother you.

Not a great option, really.

You earn most of the money, you do most of the work of parenting and you endure his childish whining and victim-stancing. You say the sex is great but I honestly don't understand how your vagina hasn't dried up completely and formed a salt crust seal.

If you already have a nanny and you're even considering hiring one for the weekends because your husband so useless that he can't parent two days a week, I absolutely cannot fathom how a separation wouldn't be a better outcome.

He can only continue to dictate your life once you're separated if you allow him to do so.

Surely he will just hire a nanny to cover whatever share of the childcare he's left with and nothing else will be different except you will gain the chance to find someone who treats you with love and respect and thoughtfulness, so you can role model healthy relationship for your children, instead of the one they have now, where they're learning that daddies get to be selfish and half-arsed and mummies roll their eyes, look unhappy and put up with it while doing all the work.

I know your kids are young now so presumably you are late 30s , early 40s, but think ahead.
What about when the kids are grown and you are left alone with this self centred man, and he will get worse when he is older /sick.

My df became like this later in life but it turned out he had a rare brain disease. But I’m assuming your DH has always been like this? I’m hearing how tiring this situation is, both physically and emotionally I imagine. Many posters here telling you how awful he is and to just leave him. That’s quite easy to say but a different matter when you’ve been with someone for 20 years and have 3 young children. People have attachments and am I right in thinking you love him, he has good qualities and as you’ve said he does step up some of the time? So frustrating. It sounds like you just want a practical solution and then you’ll be okay with it. Out-selfishing him is exhausting. Hearing him complain is exhausting. Can you get him to pay to outsource any of his share of things he doesn’t want to do?

But how is this not affecting your relationship with him? What is your perception of why he acts like this? I ask because you say that one of the good things is the sex but how do you manage to feel you want him? Genuine question btw. There must be a reason, a perception of him that keeps you with him. Because I’m also wondering why on earth he can’t just man-up and help? If it truly is just selfishness - he just puts himself first - if you know that, how can you have a relationship? If you issue consequences you say he then complains you’re cold to him. He sounds like he’s playing the victim. I mean, from an outside perspective it sounds like we’re discussing a child. Are you falling for it /have another explanation /seeing through it?

Practically speaking I’m guessing you’ll have to pay someone to do the stuff he should be doing.

basically I’m living with someone who’s pained and tired all the time because of the demands of family life (my demands) as opposed to being able to do his own thing.

So it boils down to you wanting a 'normal family life', but he would rather outsource anything to do with family life to lead a selfish life unencumbered by any family responsibilities? And this was apparent after child #1 but somehow you ended up with 2 more kids?

I can see how this happened. You are a kind person who thought surely he'll have a wake-up moment at some point and he'll step up because he loves me and surely he will realise that this isn't right... Except he didn't.

And here you are, accepting all kinds of shit from him....... and asking about the best way of accepting all this shit, and more shit in the future. Because it will get worse. The idea that it gets easier when the kids are older is a fallacy.

You say you have a great sex life now, and maybe this is the glue that is still holding it all together right now. But is it enough..... and will it last... I bet all this shit is slowly but surely eroding your love, and at some point the well will run dry, both emotionally and physically. You'd be wise to prepare practically for that moment so you'll have choices.

As someone who was married to a selfish man, what happens when he hits middle age and decides that he no longer want to to married to you but wants the new younger model without children? This is so very common that it is worth doing the thought experiment about how you would manage financially if it happens. The divorce groups for middle age women are full of talk of covert narcissistic behaviour. Does this fit your husband? My opinion is that it is just a way of saying that the men are selfish but that doesn't sell books.

The bottom line is that you can't change him. I understand that you don't want to leave because you are loyal, you want to make it work and the children, but if he operates true to type you may not get much choice.

Since you can afford it, get a weekend nanny and a holiday nanny.

Would this not solve all problems?
Your DH doesn't want to parent most of the time and is happy to pay someone else to do it.

You want to find a way to live with him as easily as possible and don't want to LTB.

I think you should continue with some individual counselling. To find out why you set the bar so low in your own life and why you seem fixated on ensuring your children get to model such an unequal relationship.

As a start, I think you should stop listening to him.
It sounds that when you do insist on 50/50 parenting he will do it, but with a huge amount of moaning. Could you just have a few trite phrases to trot out as in "As it is for me" when he complains about struggling to wake up early.

On the airport example, I'd probably refuse to go on a trip abroad with him ever again unless he agreed not to sod off at the airport. Treat him like another DC remind him to go to the toilet before you set off.
Or alternatively go without him as doesn't seem like he adds much to the equation.

I know lots of women married to men like this. It’s usually wealthy guys who work in high powered jobs. Not always though. I know very few women married to decent non selfish guys. On the whole, the wealthy ones buy in help. The guy is not expected to do anything. So my friend has a daily house cleaner, dog walker, babysitter etc etc. the guy comes and goes as he pleases. So he goes out for drinks after work and comes in at 3am. He’s never expected to get up and drive to weekend clubs for example. She gets other mums to help. Holidays involve expensive hotels with a kids club so she gets respite that way. Basically the help he might provide gets paid for. It has got better as the kids got older and lockdown meant he was at home lots and kids now demand him BUT he meets his own needs first and she’s super independent doesn’t need anything from him and there’s no birthday/anniversary celebrations (for her) and it is never raised as an issue. She has lots of female friends who help meet all of her needs. So my advice is to buy in all help (he pays though) and build up lots of female friendships. You focus on that rather than focusing on him. He is just someone who is there to provide income and a peppery to live in. Nothing he does bothers you, you always have a back up plan and you put zero effort into caring about his opinion on anything but you treasure and put time into female friends. For example, got a baby who wakes up during the night get a night nanny for respite. This is what people with resources do. If he moans about the expense then you do what my friend does and say “oh ok, sure that’s fine then you’ll be up every night with the baby from 9pm until 6am? Right? You’re going to do that then?” One weekend she stayed in bed the entire weekend. Friday through to Monday morning. Did not move only to get herself food and drink. It was chaos but he never ever questioned any help that she spent money on ever again.

Oh and the holiday thing you do what everyone else does. Take an au pair. This is normal for most people with resources. You don’t see the royal family parenting on holidays alone! That’s my experience with most families with resources that I know. Or if you have an involved grandparent they go on holiday too

OP, if he honestly can't see what he's doing wrong and genuinely believes there's no pattern here, I think he's more than 'just' selfish. Possibly narcissistic?

How would he justify staying in bed late when you are just as tired as he is?

But OP is the main earner. Is she supposed to do everything/pay for everything so the manchild can have an easy life?

Why would you think this is okay, OP? I agree with a pp who said some individual counselling is a good idea.

I know it's very frowned upon to mention this, but his selfishness was apparent from the first few weeks of DC1. Why did have 2 more DCs?
Did he want more DCs ?
Sorry I'm genuinely trying not to be snarky here, just trying to understand the motivation for a larger family.

@TambourineTimesThree

Those are not little things. Really they're not. You're describing a family dynamic where you take all the parenting responsibility and load.

There is a massive imbalance in your relationship.

My DH was brought up to have quite a selfish mindset and works hard to counteract it. He has been known to try similar things to what you describe, but very quickly gets sense when the inequality is pointed out. I tell him it's not acceptable and things change - does your husband recognise or accept that his behaviour is not on?

They say people can't change, but my DH is very embarrassed now at some of the things he did or suggested doing when the kids were little. And he's horrified if he sees similar from others. His mindset has genuinely changed over the years. But I admit that it took a long time to get there. And I seriously thought about leaving. If I posted here at certain points, I'm certain there would have been a chorus of LTB.

I can't remember what made things really change - probably when I stopped being nice about it. I asked why a lot. Why do you think I should be responsible for that thing when we both live here/we're both parents? Why do you think I enjoy cleaning the bathroom? And I made sure to be very clear that I don't, and the only reason I do it is because it has to be cleaned. That kind of thing.

This makes a lot of sense. A lot of times men have a mental block due to how they were brought up. They need to have it pointed out to them in clear english. If you have done thi sand they refuse to hear it then leave. @NCselfishmarriage i eould try this tactic