How to make it work if your DH is selfish?

[NCselfishmarriage]

Looking for inspiration / tales of those who have made it work…

I’m in a v long relationship with DH, we have 3 kids under 7. We’ve recently had some marital issues (no cheating or anything just not getting on) and after marriage counselling etc I’ve realised that the core problem for me is that he is a selfish person, and will never ever put me first unless all his needs are taken care of. This first manifested itself when our first, high needs, baby was born and I was on the floor with exhaustion (went back to FT at 4 months) and probably PNA / borderline PND and he utterly failed to show up for me in any way shape or form. This has continued on, with some big examples but also everyday small ones eg if we both go out late, I am always the one to get up early with the kids while he sleeps in until 10am because he’s “tired”, if we’re on hols and we get to the airport he will peel off straight away to go to the loo & get a coffee while I get the kids sorted and then he’ll appear 5mins before boarding and get shirty that we’re late when I try to down a coffee in 2 mins. Just tiny things but they’re cumulative and I’m now so aware of the pattern I can’t unsee it.

BUT. We are 20 years in with 3 kids, and there’s lots of good stuff. I don’t want to split up. I want to just figure out how to manage my own expectations and accept the man I’ve married.

Any tips? (And yes yes LTB but I’m wondering for those who do decide to stay how you manage it. FYI we have a very nice life, no money issues, great sex life etc etc.)

If he's not going to change them the only thing you can do is reset your expectations. It'll get easier as the kids get older, but you'll have to realise that your needs and wants will always come second to this man.
Holidays - where he wants to go and do what he wants
House - he gets final decision
He'll retire as soon as he can without thinking of you
Finances - you'll always be worse off then him
Life admin = yours
Housework -= yours
Etc etc

I think the only way to be able to get through it is to pre-empt his uselessness.

Airport- immediately send the children with him to the loo.

Night out-when you make the plan, say and it's my turn for a lie in the next day

This works for him so why would he change?

Let me guess - he puts himself first, has a wonderful confident aura and can dig in fantastically in his behaviours because he IS the most important person in the family. You, on the other hand perhaps, are a people pleaser and go along with things for an easy life. Perfect storm. That was me. It takes a lot of breaking down but it can be done. Explain to him you’re going to say ‘ting’ (like a little bell) every time he puts himself first to the detriment of you. Then you’ll explain to him, nicely, why that behaviour he’s just exhibited is wrong when you love and care for someone. You’ll need to consistently do it to the point of annoying yourself.
Men like that need to have it pointed out. Every. Single. Time.
He is selfish. He has learnt it over the course of his life. It works for him though so while there’s no incentive to change, he won’t.
So you’ll have to be more tenacious than comes naturally to you to put a stop to it.

How will this play out when the kids are older, they might realise that he is a nasty selfish man and want nothing more to do with him?
Also, how will it play out when you get older? At the minute I presume you are busy with family and work. What's it going to feel like when it's just you and him and you have retired? What happens if you have health issues?

Are you a people pleaser? Why didn't you realise he was so selfish after having one kid?

Do you pander to him a lot? What are you teaching your kids?

If money isn't an issue and everything else is OK why not move out and do 50:50 custody but still maintain a romantic relationship?

So you're basically like boyfriend & girlfriend but split kids and have your own homes.

Honestly just leave him. I lived like this for years and years. I thought I was happy, worked around the selfishness etc. then he left me for someone else.

Life is sooooo much better easier now! Even as a single parent life just flows.

Don't waste the rest of your life making allowances for a selfish man.

Do not sell your own self let alone your kids down the river here for such a man. At least you have not written that he is a good dad because he is really not that or a decent husband to you.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. Divorce is not failure here, stuffing your own self down is.

I’m sorry there is no way I could be with someone like this.

Why do you think he can't change? He now knows you are unhappy. He now knows why. Why is he not doing something about it?

But how can he not get it? In your airport example, how can he not see that he went off by himself and left you with three small kids? What does he say when you explain this (or similar examples)?

@AntarcticTern

But how can he not get it? In your airport example, how can he not see that he went off by himself and left you with three small kids? What does he say when you explain this (or similar examples)?

This. If next time you said 'no, I need to go first this time' or 'no, I'm really tired so for once I'm staying in bed and you're getting up' what would he say? Would he refuse? Have you done this?

I would work on breaking the habit of doing so much and going along with his selfish ways and take back agency over your own life.

You mentioned him dictating your every move. Does he do this now?

I like the PP idea of hiring a childminder on the weekend. You could hire them for half a day. During that time you do whatever you feel like doing. Have a lie in, read in bed, early morning outdoor activity.

Stop going out with him if you know it'll be late but you have to get up early the next morning he can't be arsed.
You can say, "I prefer not to" or "that doesn't work for me."

Take a few thing off your plate that you do for him and just stop. If he wants it done, he can do it.

I think just changing these few things will free up more of your time and you'll have less stress and less overwhelmed by his selfish ways.

Sounds like you're just using him for sex and money/lifestyle. And he's using your for sex and childcare. So your equal, in a way.

*you're

I don't think the airport example is a tiny thing at all. You need to properly look at this

I couldn't live with someone who was so selfish, lazy and uncaring about me.

The only ways there are of getting through this is my you accepting you will have to work harder and have less free time, you making more compromises, you swallowing down your resentment, you accepting that you live with someone who cares only about himself and doesn't think the children are his responsibility.

Not much you can do, get selfish back, be cunning about it, race off to coffee and loo before he gets a look in etc. Force him to agree on whats fair and enforce it - you sleep in Sat then I get Sun type of thing. Take up a hobby that means youre out of the house a lot. Its not much of a way to live but those are the options you have. Tbh once the kids are a older you'll probably find life much much easier without the giant baby in tow.

@Keepitonthedownlow I am the higher earner so no I’m not using him for “money/lifestyle”. Nice little dig tho.

Thanks for perspectives. Re the counselling - we ended up there as I essentially started trying to “outselfish” him, his response was to tell me he didn’t feel loved anymore and I had become cold towards him.

I can dictate/manipulate his behaviour in a situation but it’s exhausting. Eg we do 50/50 lie ins right now but I get a lot of huffing and puffing about how tired he is and how horrible it is to get up early because he’s a night owl and he’s TRIED to change his body clock but it doesn’t work. I point out that I’m also a night owl and dislike going to bed at 9pm but do it because I know I’ll be shattered anyway and he just looks mournful and says that I’ve managed to shift my body clock so it’s different.

Airport eg - I have called him on the loo thing, he just looks blank and says “well I need to go to the loo”. If I said to him that this happened every time he’d outright deny it was a pattern. Same as the lie in.

He’s not financially selfish and would have a nanny all weekend if he got his way. I’m currently resisting this as we both work ft and have a nanny during the week so feel weekend time should largely be about family. But maybe I need to accept defeat and allow him to outsource his bit.

If he does not want to change then the only thing I can advise is be very specific about your needs.

Eg 'I am having a lie in tomorrow and the same time to myself that you are. Please do not tell me you are tired or complain about any of this - we have had this discussion so many times, and it ruins my life in/leisure time to know that someone resents it and doesn't think I deserve it. If you complain about it or imply it's easier for me then I'll ignore you or leave the room'

At the airport tell him not to go for a wee until you've sorted the kids, tell him to be back from getting a coffee in 10 min so you have time to go or tell him you'll go and bring one back for him

Then you will have to try and ignore the passive aggression and little digs.

If he found the same way you acted to him 'cold' though I'd guess he does notice this behaviour, he just thinks he is more important than you are.

Has he ever been the default parent? This might make him see the impact on you.

He’s perfectly capable of taking care of the kids and I do travel for work etc so CAN do it. It’s just it seems to completely drain him and eg if I get back from a work trip (which are 2-3 days, not weeks on end or anything) all I’ll hear is about how he hasn’t had a MOMENT to himself and he’s SO BEHIND with all his stuff etc etc. basically I’m living with someone who’s pained and tired all the time because of the demands of family life (my demands) as opposed to being able to do his own thing. Again, to emphasise, he is totally happy if it’s not me doing it, he doesn’t have a thing where he expects his wife specifically to do everything - he’d happily outsource the lot. It’s just he doesn’t want to do it himself

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

I'd be racing to the loo in the airport if I was you. "I'm dying to go, byeeeeeee, I'll meet you in the bar order me a Prosecco thanks" or stay in bed until he gets up. You've choices, you pull back massively and start saying "no, you can't have a lie in", Or "no bring a kid to the loo" and come back. You stay as you are, or you leave. What will never happen is him deciding to change by himself, so defo don't wait for that.

This only works if they don't get pissed off at having to do things they don't think they should have to. Here it just creates bigger problems. I'll take the resentment over him doing very little over his moodiness and tantrums.

Thanks for perspectives. Re the counselling - we ended up there as I essentially started trying to “outselfish” him, his response was to tell me he didn’t feel loved anymore and I had become cold towards him.

And he still didn't get it?

There's a very long running thread on here, the couple have finally separated and he keeps telling her how difficult his life is. Mostly because he has had to step up, parenting on his own when he has the children.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4496983-Tick-tock-the-one-where-Geller-discovers-Polly-is-no-longer-a-doormat

OP, you sound like an intelligent person and you've stayed in this relationship for 20 years. Does your DH have positive character traits or behaviours that help to balance his selfishness and his habit of whining and moaning when he's asked to step up?

I'll take the resentment over him doing very little over his moodiness and tantrums.

And this is the crunch. He knows this so plays on it. Same with the moaning when you get back from a trip. I imagine you are then compensating for being away, even if you haven't fully realised it, in subsequent behaviour.

Try working on being unmoved by this. Show verbal sympathy, but do not do anything differently. E.g.
Him: SOO TIRED, moan moan
You: Aww, you are, aren't you (still carrying on with making your own cup of tea or whatever)
Him: MOAN continued moan
You: Aww. Never mind. I'm going to go and catch up on Strictly (leaves room with tea)

You're not criticising, you're just verbally acknowledging but without it affecting you. Not easy as you'll be conditioned to pander. But if it stops getting results, his motivation to do it also fades.

Not saying this solves some of the problems around household labour. But it is something you have more control over.