How to make it work if your DH is selfish?

[NCselfishmarriage]

Looking for inspiration / tales of those who have made it work…

I’m in a v long relationship with DH, we have 3 kids under 7. We’ve recently had some marital issues (no cheating or anything just not getting on) and after marriage counselling etc I’ve realised that the core problem for me is that he is a selfish person, and will never ever put me first unless all his needs are taken care of. This first manifested itself when our first, high needs, baby was born and I was on the floor with exhaustion (went back to FT at 4 months) and probably PNA / borderline PND and he utterly failed to show up for me in any way shape or form. This has continued on, with some big examples but also everyday small ones eg if we both go out late, I am always the one to get up early with the kids while he sleeps in until 10am because he’s “tired”, if we’re on hols and we get to the airport he will peel off straight away to go to the loo & get a coffee while I get the kids sorted and then he’ll appear 5mins before boarding and get shirty that we’re late when I try to down a coffee in 2 mins. Just tiny things but they’re cumulative and I’m now so aware of the pattern I can’t unsee it.

BUT. We are 20 years in with 3 kids, and there’s lots of good stuff. I don’t want to split up. I want to just figure out how to manage my own expectations and accept the man I’ve married.

Any tips? (And yes yes LTB but I’m wondering for those who do decide to stay how you manage it. FYI we have a very nice life, no money issues, great sex life etc etc.)

I would second @Drinkingallthewine

You can get on and continue your life with him but surely it'll break you down bit by bit unless you address this with him properly. X

Honestly if you don’t want to leave him and are comfortable with your life otherwise then I think the only sensible option is to structure your life so that his selfishness has as little impact as possible.

Ie - if you have a night out then stay over at a friends house or hotel or arrange for kids to stay at family / friends etc - I know this isn’t necessarily do able for everyone but you get my point. Make it so that you DONT have to rely on him.

Get to the airport, book the lounge for you and the kids, get the kids sat down with their iPads / books - you have a relaxed coffee and chill. Leave your DH to it. And when he asks why you have the lounge pass just say well you never stay with us so what’s the point.

Organise days out that you and the kids enjoy - don’t try to please DH. Go with friends / family etc.

My point is that if you are going to accept that he’s a selfish arsehole he will have to accept that his behaviour will have consequences and the consequences are that you have to put yourself and the kids before him every single time - because you know he won’t do it.

Personally I don’t think it’s Sustainable for a relationship to be so heavily weighted to one side but if you’re insistent on staying then it’s not so much trying to fix him - because he won’t change - but finding a way that his selfishnesses doesn’t impact you and the kids

Men like this don't change. It's been twenty years of deteriorating behaviour. The next twenty will bring more of the same, the entitlement and selfishness will become more ingrained.

You're starting to 'see' his behaviour more and more, how long before resentment sets in?

You asked for tales of those who 'manage' it.

My mother went through this in middle age with my Step-father, it started with talking and counselling, moved on to her pleading against his refusal to change. She moved into the angry stage for a few years where they argued - which was more like her shouting or crying and him refusing to engage.

They are now in their 70s. My mother lives a quietly unhappy life. She's now accepted he won't change. Their relationship is pretty cold and they live silent, separate lives under the same roof. She feels too old to leave and her anger at him is matched with her anger at herself for facilitating his life for years and putting herself last. His life is much the same as it always has been, he knows my mother is unhappy but doesn't care.

He doesn’t deserve someone as understanding as you. He sounds like a dick.

Those are not little things. Really they're not. You're describing a family dynamic where you take all the parenting responsibility and load.

There is a massive imbalance in your relationship.

My DH was brought up to have quite a selfish mindset and works hard to counteract it. He has been known to try similar things to what you describe, but very quickly gets sense when the inequality is pointed out. I tell him it's not acceptable and things change - does your husband recognise or accept that his behaviour is not on?

They say people can't change, but my DH is very embarrassed now at some of the things he did or suggested doing when the kids were little. And he's horrified if he sees similar from others. His mindset has genuinely changed over the years. But I admit that it took a long time to get there. And I seriously thought about leaving. If I posted here at certain points, I'm certain there would have been a chorus of LTB.

I can't remember what made things really change - probably when I stopped being nice about it. I asked why a lot. Why do you think I should be responsible for that thing when we both live here/we're both parents? Why do you think I enjoy cleaning the bathroom? And I made sure to be very clear that I don't, and the only reason I do it is because it has to be cleaned. That kind of thing.

I am wondering what the outcome of the marriage guidance was if you realised you're living with such a selfish man. What strategies were suggested/discussed?

I can totally understand you not seeing this before as we often imitate the patterns we saw in our own childhoods. They seem normal. And that's the point, if you don't challenge this behaviour and it doesn't result in him changing his mindset, what are you modelling for your own children? You don't state their gender but do you want your girls to think that relationships/marriage means subverting their needs/wants to a man? Do you want your boys to think that females do the grunt work while they indulge themselves? It happened in my family, all of my siblings fell into poor relationships.

I lasted twenty years with a selfish man until I couldn't take anymore. I got out, got into therapy and now have a partner who treats me like an equal with respect and kindness. My daughter sees that, fingers crossed she achieves that. Her father hasn't seen her in years and is going through his second divorce. I wonder why

He doesn’t see any of it as an issue. He genuinely expresses sadness that I don’t feel happy, but he feels we are quite evenly matched and he doesn’t get it. This was one of the big revelations of marriage counselling - it’s not that he is being manipulative, he genuinely doesn’t see it. (Won’t go into the reasons why but there’s some big family stuff etc , he is quite damaged in some ways.)

I know he won’t change. I get it. I think those who talked about lowering expectations are on the right track, I just need some tips to figure that out. The How To Talk So Kids Will Listen idea is GENIUS - I will reread that.

For those saying leave - I get it. I really do. I am simply not even close to that yet though. I’m financially independent and was pretty independent in all other ways pre kids, which is why we had such a great relationship for so long. I don’t see that being divorced would be any better for me, as he’d still be dictating my every move and I’d be wanting to make things ok for the kids. Just need some bridging strategies to make it through to a time when the kids are a bit older - I do think it’ll be better then.

I’m also really curious to know how he responded and what he said about these issues during counselling? Did he say he wasn’t going to change? That he’d make an effort (but hasn’t)?
An important question: what does he do that makes this a good relationship in some respects? I’m guessing there must be good things otherwise how would you bring yourself to have sex with him.
The only way this might work is if you stop doing anything for him but make it specific to the occasion. So let’s say you normally make him lunch on a Saturday but he’s had a lie-in, you can stop doing that and say you didn’t have time. Ask him if I’m future he can get up with you to help so that you’re not so rushed. (Not a good example probably but I hope you get the idea).
It could be he’s too used to doing what he wants with no consequences. What happens when you actually just ask him to do something??
There are some good comments here about this only working if you have no expectations. Basically that’s not a relationship. But I don’t think we have the full picture yet in order to give more appropriate/helpful advice….???

DF was like this. They get worse, esp after retirement. You have a sweet spot once the DC are reasonably independent to get him out, which I strongly advise you to take advantage of. People like this are an awful burden to carry.

The other factor is the kids - DH puts them last, too. They’ve noticed, believe me.

I missed your comment op because we posted at the same time. He’s saying he doesn’t get it and doesn’t see a problem. But you have said it’s a problem so it makes no sense that he won’t help out or make an effort in response. That’s basically saying he doesn’t care about you.

If it were me, here’s what I would absolutely do: Whilst the kids are still young and need your attention, stop giving him anything (including sex). You simply say you just don’t have anything left to give unless he helps you. Have a financial back up plan in case it all goes to s*. And use whatever spare time you have on yourself. You match his energy/efforts. So if he is selfish, do that too. You can always communicate that you would prefer things to be different, but in order to make that possible, he needs to do X so that you can do Y.

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

I'd be racing to the loo in the airport if I was you. "I'm dying to go, byeeeeeee, I'll meet you in the bar order me a Prosecco thanks" or stay in bed until he gets up. You've choices, you pull back massively and start saying "no, you can't have a lie in", Or "no bring a kid to the loo" and come back. You stay as you are, or you leave. What will never happen is him deciding to change by himself, so defo don't wait for that.

This. If you don't want to split up and assuming he won't attend marriage counselling, your options are (1) booking him in for a personality transplant, (2) accepting that things won't change or (3) seeing if you can 'outselfish' him and then starting a dialogue about making reasonable compromises in a relationship.

If you're at the airport, sprint for the loo first. Leave him with the children and duck into a coffee place around the corner.

At the weekend, book a babysitter so you can have a lie-in too. If he complains about the money, offer to split lie-ins with him. Otherwise, you're paying for a babysitter.

Go out some weekends by yourself and text him, 'Just out for a walk. See to the kids, please.'

Practice putting your needs before his. Tell him 'You're in charge. I'm having a bath' and lock yourself in the bathroom with a good book.

Make scratch meals for the kids and order takeout just for yourself.

It's up to you whether you want to live this way, but I wouldn't be prioritising someone who didn't prioritise me.

I don’t understand how he doesn’t see it.so when you say he never ever lets me have a lie in. We go out, he sleeps in. He knows he wants and enjoys a sleep in, does he think you’re some kind of alien who hates sleep ins that he says that’s fair? I can only comprehend this if he thinks he loves sleep ins and you hate sleep ins and that you never ever want to miss out on a single moment with the children so he’s doing you a huge favour? (Which makes him very incredibly unattractively unfuckably stupid)

Would you be happy for your children to be in a relationship like this? Because that’s what you are setting them up for right now.

This post is so sad.

He doesn’t see any of it as an issue. He genuinely expresses sadness that I don’t feel happy, but he feels we are quite evenly matched and he doesn’t get it. This was one of the big revelations of marriage counselling - it’s not that he is being manipulative, he genuinely doesn’t see it.

Does his complete failure to comprehend very basic concepts often work to his detriment?

@NCselfishmarriage what happens if you say "I'm having a lie in on Saturday" or "you'll need to finish work early to sort the kids today, I've got an appointment"?

Will he step up if you say exactly what you want?

So what would happen if you preempted everything? So after going out for an evening you said to him ‘you got the lie in last time, it’s my turn tomorrow’ and then you refused to budge?

If your kids are so young still then you’re surely looking at another decade at least of this behaviour until they are all into their teens which would make it 30 years. Why would he change the way he behaves after 30 years if he hasn’t after 20 and three children?

How old are you both now?

If you’ve had counselling and he refuses to see an issue I really don’t know what else you can do except accept it and that he comes above you and the children. I don’t think that’s the best of ideas since that’s a lot of resentment to carry around and not the greatest example to either sons or daughters of how relationship dynamics should be. Is he selfish around them as well and doesn’t put their needs before his? They’ll notice that as they get older if they haven’t already.

He doesn’t see any of it as an issue. He genuinely expresses sadness that I don’t feel happy, but he feels we are quite evenly matched and he doesn’t get it. This was one of the big revelations of marriage counselling - it’s not that he is being manipulative, he genuinely doesn’t see it. (Won’t go into the reasons why but there’s some big family stuff etc , he is quite damaged in some ways.)

Aaah, the old, "I had a difficult childhood so of course I don't understand why my wife gets annoyed that I sleep in 7 days a week while she gets up...."

This would do my head in.

Like a PP, my DH didn't always just naturally "get it". But over time, because he's a good man, he has listened to me and considered my arguments. And then, when he realised how unfair he was being, changed his behaviour and is now HORRIFIED when he thinks back to some of it.

It really suits him not to see it, or should I say to claim not to see it. That way he gets to continue on being selfish. It is fairly plain surely, that leaving you the responsibility of the children at the airport, then being bitchy / shirty about it when he deigns to return is the height of selfishness.
Likewise with lie ins. As pp said, unless you have said oh I so hate lying in, I'm afraid I will miss a moment with my children, well that's pretty straightforward too.

Sounds like he is unlikely to change. You can put strategies in place so that it doesn't bother you as much, ie low expectations of him. But that surely would make him very unattractive to you, in the long run. And it's modelling behaviour to your children, by you continuing to accept his selfishness, as well as on his part showing them that he doesn't care very much about them.

Also, if he is a fully functioning adult and able to hold down a job etc, he totally is capable of comprehending that his selfish behaviour is putting a massive burden on you. This whole blank incomprehension thing is a strategy many men use to get out of doing things they don’t want to. I remember a partner of mine once (stupidly) admitting he played dumb with an ex so he didn’t have to do his fair share or make an effort to be emotionally engaged. Then after a few months he pulled the same EXACT move on me, and when i pointed that out, pretended he didn’t know what I was talking about and didn’t recall the conversation.

What i’m saying is it’s a strategy and it works because it gives them an excuse, while leaving the other person to explain until they are blue in the face what the issue is, and putting the onus on them to try to fix it or put up with it.

My ex used to pull a sad face too - while still acting like he didn’t know what to do. He totally knew, he just didn’t want to. And your husband sounds very similar.

Retrain him. You say he wont change (why would he, when things are working in his favour). Words haven’t been able to make him want to change. BUT, you can change yourself and the way you behave and respond to him.

Have a think about some of the ways you’d like him to support you and put that into practice.
Examples:

• Make weekend plans for a few hours without the kids. Get up early, get yourself ready and leave them with him. No negotiation. He will survive.
• If you asks you to do something for him, ask him for something in return and you do his request AFTER he does yours. Win win.
• Tell him you’re having a lie in and if the kids come to you, tell them “daddy will do it”. He’s more than capable of pouring bowl of cereal and watching them from the sofa for a couple of hours, even if that’s all he does
• If you go out late, tell him in advance that you will be sleeping in for a change. Then kick him out when the kids wake in the morning
• If it’s housework related, tell him “I’m going to do the vacuuming, so can you empty the dishwasher and wipe the sides down, please?

Don’t give him a chance to argue. Just tell him, this is what you need and so this is what he needs to do. Tell yourself, you do not need to feel guilty. This is fair. Tell yourself he is a good dad and the kids will be fine spending time with him.

If he does what he needs to do, reward him. Not with praise, or thank yous. He’s not a kid and not doing you a favour. Reward him with smiles, affection and a happy mood.

The only other alternatives are LTB, or find a way to not be resentful any more.

I don't think that he is going to change OP. As posters above have said you could "out selfish" him but that seems a miserable way to live. Could you afford to buy in help? Cleaner? Babysitter? Or just refuse to do anything at all for him- meals, washing etc. Can you make plans to move out long term when the children are a bit older? I also think that it's very convenient for him "not to see" things.

This was my exh. Your DH doesnt see it as an issue because all his needs are being met and thats all that matters. If you must stay then stop doing anything for him. As pp have said, if he says anything just reply" Well me and kids are ok so its not an issue" I left my DH at 40 years old and was diagnosed 4 years later with Systemic Sclerosis and then cancer. Last few years have been constant illness, operations and hospital apps. If my ex had still been around it would have been a nightmare as his selfish behaviour ramped up 1000 percent to the point of abuse if I ever dared be ill, to make sure i never asked for help or support and to still run around after him. Think about this for a while, what would happen if you were suddenly very ill? Is this a chance you want to take? My mum also stayed married to my very selfish dad who made her life a misery until the day she died. Its worse once the kids are older, because then they expect you to wait on them hand and foot. If you must stay for now, do so, but by god dont hold out for "when things get better" because they wont. Hes had 20 years to make you happy and hasnt tried once. Hes not going to start now.

He's selfish, has no empathy for you, gets everything his own way and dictates your every move.

And you want advice on how you can crush your spirit and your dignity ever further in order to accommodate his selfishness.

How can you be a better servant? I don't know. I don't think you should try.

I think it's about boundaries. We can all be a bit selfish, and we're all guilty of thinking some people just don't mind doing certain things. It's only when challenged that we realise we take each other for granted. So, make your boundaries clear. Divide the time up before the flight so you both have time for a coffee and a wander, carve up the lie-ins so you get half each. If there are things you genuinely don't mind, trade them off for things you do (swap the food shop for the bins etc). But don't be a martyr.