Needing support for those days after first finding out about husband's infidelity

[Sazdun]

Okay third time lucky. Unfortunately some of you will have followed what happened to me yesterday and finding out my husband of 8 years was unfaithful. There have been super kind people who have reached out and from the bottom of my heart I thank you. I wish j could buy each of you a well deserved wine or chocolates. I still can't find it in me to reach out to my IRL friends or find the words but I am meeting my friend tomorrow and lets hope I can by then. My original thread has been put up so I can get some of the helpful info people posted but no more replies can be made. My follow up thread has since been deleted because it is a thread about a thread. I did not know this is not something you are supposed to do. Anyway I have started this to keep anyone who is helping me stay updated or for anyone going through the horrible or similar same thing to get some helpful advice. Some people have questioned if I am infact real. I am. I am a 38 year old mum of two who has been with her husband since she was 23. I was concerned about his relationship with another woman but while I came on here yesterday thinking I would get feedback on how to approach my feelings and deal with my husband, I got angry and stood up for myself. I never ever thought it would lead to this. So if you doubt me or what to pull every little thing I type please don't, predictive text is a bitch. This is my life, my girls lives and I just need support and help.

Good point @Moser85
Will they be in work together tomorrow?

In your shoes, I would NOT be attending, and I'd probably keep my dc away too (you can organise for a different Easter egg hunt)
(How crass to quote one's own comment )

By keeping away AND your dc away, you're pressing control alt delete on not just your normal, but the whole group's.
You're sending a message that EVERYTHING has to be reset.
Without being manipulative, rude, unpleasant or asking people to take sides

[quote Sazdun]@Rogue1001MNer that's it she isn't to a point. From conversations with friend last weekend. Everyone else has had years Inc OW to rationalise and process this. Part of what I found so hard was the lack of anger at H and OW. Lots of anger for H not telling me though. So almost like there has been a conscious effort to rally behind me and to an extent her too as she has been part of this friendship group now for a number of years. Based on chats with BF it seems she was discouraged from bringing it up with me and to let things be unless I brought it up. The generosity I do think that has been her way of massaging her guilt. Her H has also been in a fight with my H once on a stag do. Apparently he was told by BF H ( my H cousin) that everyone else Inc. Me knows and he has to move on as we have all accepted it. I feel the blame has to sit with my H in this. Friends between rock and hard place as others have said and OW has not wanted to rock the boat with me. Clearly she now views friends as being as much her friends as mine and I feel that they think the same. It isn't a case of being disloyal but she isn't going anywhere in that group and I don't think due to H's lies she should. He needs to be the one to fix this like OW but I have no idea how he can.[/quote]
Are you forgetting that she had sex with your husband even though she knew he was in s relationship? Of course the gigantic blame should go to your husband but she’s not blameless.
I wouldn’t be friends with her.

He's still reaching out to her! Twice he's instigated conversations with her. The man has no sense at all!! Ffs if it was me I'd cut all contact with her completely, seems he still wants her reassurance even after everything he's done.

@HikingforScenery funnily enough no I am not forgetting that part in the slightest. I am just trying to process what I do know to be facts rather than assuming. I really do appreciate people taking the time to post and give support but sometimes people have not read entire threads or jump in on other people's interpretations of what i have said rather than see my OP.

It is so hard because I am so angry with my husband but there is that part of me that still gets cross and feels the need to defend him when he is called names here, even though he deserves 99% of them.
I think I need to speak to her. Maybe have a face to face and say everything I want to say to her. Then I can deal with him. If he doesn't like me giving her some shit and getting upset then I will really know where I come in the pecking line.

@Sazdun I hope you are feeling better?

Things are still raw aren't they? I can understand where you are coming from and your need to talk to OW. You do what you need to

Ultimately you will realise that your DH, OW and so called friends have all betrayed you. Just like you, no one else wants to rock the boat and want to continue in your friendship circles etc. If everyone thought you knew and had forgiven that's one thing. But did everyone in your circle know? Because presumably when OW joined the said circle later, there must have been a conversation to enable everyone to know? Doesn't sound real to me .........

You will find in life most people put themselves first and don't want to inconvenience themselves .......

[quote Sazdun]@HikingforScenery funnily enough no I am not forgetting that part in the slightest. I am just trying to process what I do know to be facts rather than assuming. I really do appreciate people taking the time to post and give support but sometimes people have not read entire threads or jump in on other people's interpretations of what i have said rather than see my OP.

It is so hard because I am so angry with my husband but there is that part of me that still gets cross and feels the need to defend him when he is called names here, even though he deserves 99% of them.
I think I need to speak to her. Maybe have a face to face and say everything I want to say to her. Then I can deal with him. If he doesn't like me giving her some shit and getting upset then I will really know where I come in the pecking line.[/quote]
OP, you just seemed to be excusing her with your recent 2/3 posts but I do understand you’re in a difficult position. I don’t envy you at all. I apologise if I sound harsh.

I frankly think you would end up bitter if you have to continue seeing her socially, regularly.

I think you should keep the part they both played at the forefront of your mind as you continue to decide on your next steps. The fact that she’s seeing herself as complete blameless is very off putting. She was fully aware she was having sex with someone’s partner when she did it.

Having a conversation with her will be so hard. You’ll probably have to think about a lot of logistics to make sure the ‘power’ lies with you.

I wish you the very best in dealing with this for the best outcome for you and your family.

Take time to check in with yourself and breathe.

@Sazdun this sounds very familiar - I wanted the 'clear the decks' conversation but a wiser person than Me talked me down. You don't know how that conversation will get replayed to other people or what agenda OW and even H will have as you go into it. What second guessing and double speak and truth altering crap they will seek to get out of it.

The only way I got clear was to cut all ties and move away. It was searingly hard and at times made me bitter, but 2 years on I can truly say I'm very glad I never spoke to her or engaged with her ever since the moment I knew they were in a relationship together.

Don't waste your precious energy on her. Focus on your recovery and your new life, one in which you know the truth about your marriage and your friendships. In the long run, you will be so much happier

I feel from your update that your h even though messaged her infrequently, messaged her to make amends which as funnily enough she said, this shouldn't be his priority. If she text him he should of said could you give me space I'm sorry for all of this but I have to sort my relationship out. Instead he gave her a full description of the events between you and him (she should have been the last person he said this too) and wanted her advice. This is totally inappropriate.

I think the issue of bringing her into your lives is more problematic than the physical side of their affair. I think from what you have said they both have used this time to cultivate an emotional affair. Giving themselves affectionate names, offering support and advice, going beyond the boundaries of a genuine friendship. When he said to you he needed her in his life, even the risk of you finding out wasn't a deterrent to this. Not to mention his bizarre intense response to her wedding.

I'm so sorry I want you both to work out. But I just can't see how you can move past that emotional attachment he has, the fact he's brought her and her family into your life. And I do think she has an element of blame, she certainly isn't the victim she is making herself out to be. She knew all their history and she knew her 'platonic' friendship over stepped the mark- she should never ever have stuck around. So why did she? Because she needed that emotional affair as much as your h did. You mentioned in an earlier post her husband can be insensitive to her needs- well your husband filled that void.

My husband when I first met him had what felt like a harem of women around him. I knew it wasn't right but early on I put it down to he's more of a woman's man than a man's man. Then his history unraveled. His ex was emotionally abusive, they had children together- he stuck around because he wanted his family together (they were separated) but he needed that emotion (more than anything physical) so he had three women who he could rely on. Their trips out had all the trappings of dates, they had affectionate nicknames, he was like a knight in shining if they ever had a problem. It was fine when he was single but not when he was dating me. The final straw came when a grandma of one of the women directly asked him when I was there why he wasn't dating her grand daughter.

That was it I told him he had to sort his life out, go to counselling to sort out the massive issues from his previous relationship and if he wanted to date me, he had to get his affairs in order literally. He didn't seek counselling but he did find a friend (who also happened to be his ex- but she was a true friend there was no stupid pretend dates going on). We both helped him overcome his issues and he cut out the emotional affairs. This was all in the first year of our relationship. But we are so strong now.

My scenario is not the same as yours, but what does mirror yours is the emotional affair. We overcame them, I don't know how it could ever work with her in the picture. Remember although it seems like she's been around a life time it's only been in your married life- you had I life before that- so it's possible to live without her in it. She should respect boundaries so you can both work on what you have got left. Though I think it's a case of literally walking away from your old life and creating a new one- almost like a migration. From anything linked to her. You might have a chance is you move to Australia!

Thinking of you x

The thing that strikes me is that your H still seems completely unable to put any distance between him and her. She’s on her honeymoon for goodness sake and he’s still initiating conversations asking her “How are you”.

Reading the latest messages from “OW” it does seem as though she’s very much on your side but I agree she doesn’t also seem to feel any need to create distance from your own friendship group which she clearly now views as her own with the passage of time.

To me the key here is your H contacting her for support still AND whilst she’s on her honeymoon. Until he can distance himself from her and not “need” her in his/your lives it seems the biggest stumbling block ever. I can’t see how it’s supposed to be possible for you to not feel upset with the situation moving forward.

If say this were to all be swept under the carpet it would make for some very embarrassing and uncomfortable get togethers with your group of friends at least in the short term. Her own H may not feel comfortable in light of some of the recent messages and revelations either.

Once again it feels back to what you said initially in that your H seems to need and want a deep friendship with another woman, who he brought back into the fold, whilst also enjoying his relationship and family life. I don’t now think there is anything physical between them from what you have posted. But it’s hugely disappointing that you have not read any messages from your H apologising but stating he must focus on you and his marriage going forward and break off his friendship with her. But it sounds as though she’s so entrenched within the group that the only way to break social contact (accepting they work together) is for you and him to remove yourselves from this group of friends.

Of course you can speak to her privately if you wish, but it doesn’t actually sound as though she is the one with the problem so to speak. She may be the root of it, but the cause of the problem seems to be your H in all honesty.

They are still together emotionally. He is still ‘in infidelity,’ and OW continues to play a big role in your marriage. They both have been bargaining away indefensible behavior from the very beginning.

Those messages are a microcosm of H’s deep enmeshment and over-reliance on OW. As always, she gains validation from her place on his pedestal. He still feels entitled to reach out to her, and she continues to enable and guide him when there should be zero contact.

H is of course totally responsible for his infidelity and abuse of your trust. However, OW has a knack for downplaying her culpability during both their rodeos. She initially knew you were together, yet went for it with him. She later gave herself permission to rebuild intimacy with H and to thoroughly embed herself in his life. I still believe she suspected along the way that you didn’t know, but forged ahead anyway, as it suited her ego and social needs.

Even if she truly believed you knew, they’ve become too close. Even if their 1st rodeo had never happened, they’ve become too close. You’ve known this for years. He’s incredibly dependent on her, and she knows this. It’s a bit rich for her to now admonish him to be honest with everyone when she hasn’t been. She’s got an agenda, is brazening it out, and putting her spin on the narrative.

His marriage is crumbling, yet he continues seeking her out, and neither has any intention of severing ties. You have been, and continue to be, majorly disrespected and short-changed.

Sazdun, please don’t bargain away your boundaries.

@Sazdun
You seem to be ignoring the fact that he hasn't said he will give up the friendship. It's like you believe that the ball is in your court, but it seems like everyone else expects you to slot back into the way life was before and all friendships etc are going to be the same.

You said he looked surprised that you asked to see his phone but obviously after something like this has come out everyone knows that there is a chance their partner will want to look at their phone and as those messages are composed and sent the people remain very conscious of the fact that you might end up seeing those messages.

I also agree with @BelladiMamma. Having it out with OW can lead to everyone putting their own spin on the confrontation and possibly have people taking sides(it seems people already are siding with OW seeing as they're still going to the lunch do).

I know you want to get all the facts but I think you already have all the answers you need without talking to her.
You know your husband still contacts her for emotional support and is unwilling to rid her from your family's lives.
After a betrayal like this, he shouldn't need prompting from you to do this. It should've been one of the first things he did when he begged for forgiveness in his essay.

It feels like your husband and friendship group isn't giving you a choice to remove OW from your lives... just like how you weren't given a choice to exit the relationship all those years ago.

If he really wanted to put you first he would cut the OW out of his life completely
That's as simple as it really

Sazdun, on 3/28, you stated, “But he can’t have us both.” Any reputable relationship counselor or individual therapist would strongly agree. Until H ceases all contact/interaction with OW, any attempt at reconciliation is doomed. Closing the door is mandatory, yet he is avoiding that commitment. It boggles that he and OW are discussing that it’s too soon for you to attend her lunch.

I so wish you wouldn’t buy into the ‘Prevention Myth’ that you were not enough for H. His infidelity and investment in OW are due to his character deficits. They are not a reflection on you at all. You could not have prevented his poor choices.

If you feel you need to talk to OW then go for it, but I would have a friend with you - not a mutual friend, but someone who is squarely on your side. She doesn't have to say anything but you need someone who is clear headed because OW is going to try to gaslight the fuck out of you.

I know you've built a friendship with this woman, but the foundations of that friendship are lies and deceit. She's lied from the start, and she has formed an emotional intimacy with your husband. You can't trust her. She's not going to tell the truth. She'll admit to past wrongdoing, but that's it. She'll insist that she thought you knew, that she thought everything was fine, that she didn't see any problem with her ongoing intimacy with your husband... she'll tell you how much your husband loves you and how great it'll be if you just get over it. It's all gaslighting.

Personally, I wouldn't talk to her at all. But if you feel you have to, be prepared for the above, and have a friend with you who can help you reality-check the conversation afterwards.

Honestly, it might be better to talk to her over text - at least that way you have a record of her words and others can see what she's saying.

Beastly is spot on
She will gas light the fuck out of you.she is very good with words, & manipulate the rhetoric
You will be emotive & cry
This will be a sign of weakness that she must not witness.
She knows she can carry on as is,
She knows H wont cut her off
Friends are going to her lunch, she is hunky dory.
The real joker you have is to refuse her entry into your family, your circle will see you have shut that door, they will see that you do not accept this blood sucker in your life.
She will at some point come, handkerchief in hands, asking for you to "understand" she will want to continue to be Auntie.
At which point you may have the strength to ask her if already "having" your H isn't enough ? & to get out of your life, definitively.
This does in no way exonerate your H.
From their messages they very much expect you to get over it, & soon it will be all cosy again.

How dare she suggest that you send your daughters to the Easter egg hunt without you being there! I’m guessing she’ll be there fawning over your children, showing all your friends what a great ‘auntie’ she is to them. Then telling all your friends about how she has advised your husband to use this opportunity to talk some sense into you, probably followed by a ‘fingers crossed’ comment about how she’s rooting for you guys.
Give him an ultimatum this second, this manipulative life-stealer needs to be totally cut out of his life before you can even consider forgiving him.

Your world has been blown apart and everyone around you, your DH, the OW, your friends are just carrying on like normal. Treating you like the errant child who'll come round once you've got over your little tizz.

The OW is only concerned about herself and her position in the social group. If she was empathetic in any way she'd keep a low profile with your friends, at least for a while. But she's going out of her way to organise social events (while on honeymoon) to firmly stamp ownership on your friendship group and gives no fucks about your feelings. She'd be dead to me. Blocked on everything, no contact whatsoever and if she came within a mile of my kids I'd rip her fucking head off.

Your DH is still cheating on your marriage. He's searching her out and sharing intimate conversations with her. Despite the pain he's unleashed on you he's still trying to keep her in his (and your) life. Sorry but I think she gave him the boot when she found out he was getting married and he's been sniffing around her like a dog on heat ever since. I think if she were single and willing he'd be there before you could say 'lying, cheating scumbag'.

As for your friends, I'd find it very difficult to trust any of them again. I get that they all thought you knew, so the deciding factor now would be, now they know you didn't how do they respond. They now know that your DH and the OW have done an absolute number on you and also on them. If you were my friend the pair of them would be out on their arses and I'd be there for you. I wouldn't be agreeing to going to nice cosy socials with her. Who the fuck does that?

To be honest, I'm quite reactive and I think I'd be telling the whole lot of them to get to fuck.

The last person he should be messaging for relationship advice, is her.

Also, she knew you were going to read those messages.

@Sazdun your friends reaction is really perplexing me. I tried to put myself in the position of your friends and each time I come back to being horrified. If you were my friend and I found out I'd been mislead for years thinking you knew your DH had cheated on you and on that premise the OW had also been introduced to the friendship group. Irrespective of how friendly I was with OW now my loyalty and sympathy would lay with the betrayed friend once I knew it was all a lie.

I would be pulling myself back from the OW and rallying around my friend who has had her whole world blown apart.

Right or wrong the friendship group cannot exist as it did before with both of you in it, and if OW had absolutely any respect for you or care for your family she would quietly withdraw from the group and find new friends. As it happens she's arranging lunches with them making it clear she has no intention of backing off from your friends or your husband and still plans to continue on her life as it was before.

Your DH initiated every single contact with OW whilst on her honeymoon, each and every message was unnecessary, they weren't important things, in fact it seemed like he was grasping at straws to give himself excuse to contact her, it's clear neither he nor her have any intentions of ending the friendship/relationship between them, they think that with a bit of space you can all go back to how it was before.

You said you felt by those messages she wasn't interested in your DH romantically, that may be true but I don't think the same can be said for your DH not being interested in her. And from her message about him stopping lying, I do not think you have gotten the full story from your DH about what happened between them.

I feel desperately sad for your situation but only you have the power to do anything about it.

Please do not let them or your friends sweep this under the carpet and minimise what has been done to you. You have every right to be angry and hurt.

Totally agree with you @SugarPlumRoar, particularly your first 2 paragraphs.

It's all starting to look very SWF, isn't it.

And I agree with you and a pp, she wrote what she wrote knowing you'd be likely to see it

I wouldn't let your girls anywhere near that Easter egg hunt

It’s all very strange how everything thinks you knew. It’s almost as though they have all collided together and said “it’s finally come out - tell her we all thought she knew!” I know that sounds crazy but for your best friend, her husband, the OW etc to all think you knew but that you would never utter a word about it just doesn’t seem right? I may be way off though?

My best friend and I know some secrets of each other and maybe once in a blue moon over wine, or during a difficult time, we would reflect on past experiences so I can’t understand how this has never come up.

I don’t see how life can move on with the OW still being so present. It seems as though everyone views her as this innocent angel. Even the message inviting everyone over - why would that be your priority 1- whilst on honeymoon and 2 - in the midst of all this drama? It feels like she’s asserting herself in the friendship group to me.

I think you are well within your rights to say to your H to cut contact and ask her to back off.