Can we fix this?

[ConfusedRightNow]

My husband and I have a very volatile relationship. A couple of weeks ago during an argument, away from the kids, he punched a hole in a wall and started shouting and swearing in my face. He is often irritable and throws stuff or slams doors. Usually when the children aren't here but on a couple of occasions in front of the children, which I am really angry about. Our interactions often involve bickering and he is very critical of things I do around the house. He is hardly ever affectionate towards me which I worry is a terrible way to represent relationships to our children (DS6 and DD4).

I am far from blameless though. I try to remain calm but occasionally snap back. In January it reached a head when I'd gone to the bedroom to clear my head, my daughter was calling for me and my husband stood outside the bedroom door telling me what a horrible mother I was. I'm embarrassed to say I lost it and ended up hitting him across the chest and kicking him.

Fast forward to now, a couple of weekends ago, just before the wall punching incident I told my husband I wanted a divorce. He begged me to stay and then got angry. After the wall punching incident I upped and left with the kids to stay with a friend for a few days. But sitting down and looking through finances, I've realised I just can't make ends meet. I can lose having a car, but I'd still only have £100 a month left after rent/mortgage (the latter being smaller), food and bills for anything else; clothes, fuel prices going up, unexpected expenses, books, any treats, school trips. This is taking into account any maintenance from my husband and all benefits we'd be entitled to. So, in conclusion I can't actually afford to leave.

My husband after apologising has signed up for anger management and marriage counselling for us both. After a visit from the police this morning (because the friend I stayed with and my mother recommended I report the wall punching incident) and reflecting on my behaviour I've rung the GP and waiting for a call back about my own anger management. My husband is adamant we can make this work and go back to a happy, healthy family household for our kids.

I'm not so sure. I'm so lost. Should I keep trying? Can we fix this? Or should I push my children into poverty?

I want my kids to grow up in a happy, family home.

They aren't. They won't be for as long as they live with parents who have an incredibly toxic, volatile and unstable relationship which has meant physical aggression, smashing stuff and shouting - sometimes in front of the children.

Not hungry or cold.

I asked you if you'd explored all avenues to best try to combat those things. You didn't answer / say you'll look them up.

You said you 'just want to fix it' meaning the relationship.

You're putting your wants above your children's needs currently I'm afraid. I know that's horrible to hear but it's even more horrible for kids to experience.

Going to bed every night in a home that makes you anxious because unsure when the next blow up will be is so damaging. Not knowing if when you get home from school you'll see nice daddy or angry daddy or nice mummy or angry mummy or sad mummy is confusing and unfair.

If he actually loves them unconditionally which is a hill you seem determined to die on, then he won't let them starve or freeze. You'll both act like adults and work together to make sure that doesn't happen, just not as a couple.

I just think his neurodiverse nature explains his irritability. His irritability when I put music on because it's too much noise for him. How stressed he gets by water droplets on the floor or washing not hung exactly crease free. His abruptness and rudeness in social situations to the extent my family and several friends don't want to see him.

You know when you asked where the control is?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I just think his neurodiverse nature explains his irritability.

Let's look at this then.

His irritability when I put music on because it's too much noise for him.

Would be a possible sensory issue. He doesn't discuss it calmly though does he? He is angry with you when you do something normal, that makes you happy. He doesn't suggest a compromise, he is cross with you.

How stressed he gets by water droplets on the floor or washing not hung exactly crease free.

Would be a possible sensory issue OR control issue. Does he clean the floor, or you? Does he hang the washing or you? If he had a genuine issue he would want to do it himself not berate you. I assume it's him criticising the way YOU do those things rather than him taking ownership of them?

His abruptness and rudeness in social situations to the extent my family and several friends don't want to see him.

Sounds much more like him being an arsehole, your friends and family recognising that and him managing to isolate you in the process.

He snaps about the music out loud and then turns it off. I guess it's not directed me, just "dear god, I cannot deal with this noise".

Yes, in most cases he mumbled under his breath but he will get kitchen roll and clean it up around my feet while I'm cooking dinner or whatever I'm doing. He'll take all the washing off the airer and rehang it. I find the angry mumbling stressful but that might be because my stepdad used to do that before snapping.

I has admitted he doesn't like my mum and thinks she bad mouths him for no reason. That's she's manipulative as she's annoyed I loved away from home to live with my husband and mentions the distance from the grandkids a lot. He really does struggle socially. He hates going to social events and when he she's and u try to introduce him to friends and their partners there's often awkward silences. I asked him why and he says he can't think what to say/has no interest in what they're saying. It's hard.

Sorry for the typos. I'm struggling to type as I'm a bit emotional. I think I might take a break from Mumsnet for a bit.

@girlmom21

I just think his neurodiverse nature explains his irritability. His irritability when I put music on because it's too much noise for him. How stressed he gets by water droplets on the floor or washing not hung exactly crease free. His abruptness and rudeness in social situations to the extent my family and several friends don't want to see him.

You know when you asked where the control is?

It's not control. He just can't cope with life sometimes. And I'm maybe not as accomodating and understanding as I used to be.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I want my kids to grow up in a happy, family home.

They aren't. They won't be for as long as they live with parents who have an incredibly toxic, volatile and unstable relationship which has meant physical aggression, smashing stuff and shouting - sometimes in front of the children.

Not hungry or cold.

I asked you if you'd explored all avenues to best try to combat those things. You didn't answer / say you'll look them up.

You said you 'just want to fix it' meaning the relationship.

You're putting your wants above your children's needs currently I'm afraid. I know that's horrible to hear but it's even more horrible for kids to experience.

Going to bed every night in a home that makes you anxious because unsure when the next blow up will be is so damaging. Not knowing if when you get home from school you'll see nice daddy or angry daddy or nice mummy or angry mummy or sad mummy is confusing and unfair.

If he actually loves them unconditionally which is a hill you seem determined to die on, then he won't let them starve or freeze. You'll both act like adults and work together to make sure that doesn't happen, just not as a couple.

He does. He has never shown any anger towards them. What if he can't afford to either? He'll be paying maintenance on top of running a whole extra household. I can't live off benefits/food banks forever.

Ok, but what if we fixed it and for the rest of their lives they came home to happy mummy and daddy. Better than miserable mummy who can't cope with single parenting. That's what I'm looking for.

@ConfusedRightNow

Ok, but what if we fixed it and for the rest of their lives they came home to happy mummy and daddy. Better than miserable mummy who can't cope with single parenting. That's what I'm looking for.

Aren't we all.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

You're not willing to accept the reality of the situation. It would be sad and a shame if you didn't have kids, but the fact you do have them makes it irresponsible and unfair too.

Sorry. You could get great support on here if you were open to alternatives but you aren't. People aren't going to advise something that isn't realistic and is damaging to the kids.

The Police have a duty to inform Children’s Services about any incident like this where a child has been present or lives in the home. I would therefore expect that you will have a third referral made and they will assess again. The decision to ‘try again’ may be taken out of your hands, as it doesn’t sound like a good environment for any children. Plus I can assure you that the children will be well aware of any arguments and damaging of the home, regardless of whether you thought they were ‘asleep’.

It is difficult, I'm also a child that came from a volatile home. We constantly heard my parents screaming at each other, my mum would cry to us all and tell us daddy was trying to take us away from her forever, we regularly saw my mum pushing him or slapping him and even saw him throw her across the table once. After that incident my brother and I (who were the youngest) were really scared and ended up crying about it in school so a social worker started coming around where I'm guessing the school reported it. They were never so obvious going forward but they never got on. Even when we were teenagers they were regularly not talking and there would be lots of passive aggressive "Yebbie, can you ask your father to pass the salt" "Yebbie, can you tell your bloody mother to ask me herself if she wants something" at the dinner table.

I wish I could say it ended there but I have definitely been the toxic one in a few relationships I've had. Pushing and shouting etc. Then crying with guilt for ages after. Even now I'm married and I'm a mum I have to still catch myself sometimes, my husband and I will bicker and he will say something that winds me up and it takes all of my strength to not start shouting and kicking off. I didn't get much success with NHS counselling, I was working through my issues in private counselling until I ran out of money and definitely want to resume it one day. We've all been affected to a degree, thankfully my brothers are gentle giants and nothing like our dad but my sisters have definitely had relationships issues and had abusive partners over the years.

If my marriage had gotten to the point we were verbally and physically assaulting each other I would have to leave because I know the lingering affects (I also know it destroyed my relationship with my parents and I very much want my kids to stay in my life) thankfully it has never escalated to this point, but there have definitely been moments I'm not proud of and I'm consistently having to work on myself as a person, mother and partner.

@ConfusedRightNow

Ok, but what if we fixed it and for the rest of their lives they came home to happy mummy and daddy. Better than miserable mummy who can't cope with single parenting. That's what I'm looking for.

So how are you going to fix it, other than never disagreeing with him and spending your life tip-toeing around in case he gets angry?

Is he going to get anger management? Is he going to make an effort with your friends and family? Does he want to fix it?

@ConfusedRightNow

Ok, but what if we fixed it and for the rest of their lives they came home to happy mummy and daddy. Better than miserable mummy who can't cope with single parenting. That's what I'm looking for.

On a thread I stated I've kind of asked this question. The responses are so far that the patterns of behaviour become entrenched and so real change is highly unlikely at best.

This is a good article about whether real change is happening

www.btr.org/abusive-husband/

The book by Lundy Bancroft is also worth reading. I read it to know more about me. I hope I can change. I doubt I can within my marriage.

Reading this was like reading my life for the last 7 years until I left my ex when he called my son a "fucking prick" and a "fucking bastard" for accidentally breaking the TV.

Even down to the water droplets on the floor. Loud music. He now blames it all on "autism" - it's not that, he was and is an abusive dick and continues to do so. He cannot have any conversation with me without him losing his cool and dictating to me, so we've had to go LC/NC.

Even if you were toxic back, and believe me I ended up stooping to his level because I was so mentally unwell and gaslit for so long that I couldn't make sense of anything, the fact remains that the relationship is volatile and it won't change. The resentment he feels towards you was the same resentment I felt my ex breathing down my neck everyday - and to some extent, still do. The criticisms, the insults, the mood swings, the never knowing what type of mood he'd be in or if I asked the wrong thing whether it would be the day he'd end up just leaving for good.

Look up trauma bonds - I suspect you, like me, are stuck in this perpetual cycle of wanting to make right something that is very, very wrong. Even to this day I cannot believe he's an abuser, even though my family, friends, DV charity, police and therapist have all confirmed what I experienced WAS abuse. He will try and play on your feelings, profess he'll change, make amends - he won't. He will blame you, maybe take a little bit of ownership, but essentially rewrite it all so that you're the unreasonable one. How do I know? Because my ex has done that to me too.

My ex hates his mum - and his insidious hatred of women in general (he's got a new girlfriend now, but has already criticised her to me, but everything is fine again!) reeks through how he speaks and acts.

Do you have equity in your house OP, if so, sell it, put 6 months down on somewhere acceptable , claim benefits and get yourself into a job. (You can still claim housing benefit when not working even if you’ve paid upfront) provided you don’t have more than 6k left and part claim up to 16k left. If you are renting you don’t have to worry about not having cash for household repairs and you may find you spend less with a clear head . Owning the house and putting up with this life— it’s not worth it just because you are worried about poverty- cross that bridge when/if you come to it— you are catastrophising unecessarily. .

They don't change.

So realistically how exactly are you going to fix it?

People are telling you what they know from experience.

So he's not abusive but you're concerned about him having unsupervised access to the children where you can't protect them!

Sadly you just don't want to take on board any or all the advice you have been given.

So ok. Stay with him. Wait until his fist connects with your face instead of the wall. Let your kids have a miserable childhood, walking on eggshells, growing up in a toxic dysfunctional household. They might not hate you for it when they're grown up, if you're lucky.

But hey, as long as you don't have to have beans on toast for dinner or actually put any effort into exploring the financial options/benefits/childcare etc

Like I said earlier...

Your poor children.

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor

So he's not abusive but you're concerned about him having unsupervised access to the children where you can't protect them!

Sadly you just don't want to take on board any or all the advice you have been given.

So ok. Stay with him. Wait until his fist connects with your face instead of the wall. Let your kids have a miserable childhood, walking on eggshells, growing up in a toxic dysfunctional household. They might not hate you for it when they're grown up, if you're lucky.

But hey, as long as you don't have to have beans on toast for dinner or actually put any effort into exploring the financial options/benefits/childcare etc

Like I said earlier...

Your poor children.

Wow, thank you. Do you get joy making people feel suicidal from the other side of your keyboard.

I've looked into the options and I don't have enough money.

Your poor partners if you out so little effort into fixing relationships.

OP you aren't ready to leave and thats ok. It's very easy for posters to badger posters to leave and I understand where it's coming from but in reality it's just taking away an outlet for you.

I don't believe you are abusive. Yes you hit him but you are not abusive. Abusive behaviour is about power and control and I don't believe your one act where you were pushed to the end of your tether counts as abuse.

What you could do, as it's obvious you aren't going to leave and that's ok, is make a safety plan. The national DV website can help you with this. Please do it.

OP you have had some good advice on here.

your relationship is toxic and not fixable.

sorry you are feeling suicidal.please contact your gp immediately.

Why are you seemingly fixated on fixing this at all?. This is fundamentally broken at its core.

He is angry because he is abusive and hates everybody starting with his mother and now you as his wife. He’s not neurodiverse at all.

I lived in a similar relationship. My ex was abusive. Your husband is abusive- you are just not seeing it for what it is.
What you did was called reactive abuse.
You need to do the freedom program. Even things like him not wanting you to work until sept etc are all tactics used to keep you dependent.
I left my ex when I only worked one day a week and no money. No family home to sell and I live on the south coast where rent is really high. You make it work. I had help from DV charity who gave me food/ presents for the kids the first Christmas.
3 years on I work full time and fully support us financially with no help from him.
I am happier and that makes me a better Mum. We have a calm home and my children and I are all processing things - we all have counselling.

I can tell you from bitter experience that this situation will not improve, we did marriage counselling etc again it was all tactics he used to keep us together. After a few months things reverted to how they were. I hated myself for the person I felt I had become.

3 years in I am me, I am free, I live my life according to my values. I have supportive family and friends and have built a life from scratch.

Do not live your life worrying about what if the boiler breaks etc - you will find a way. I spent years worrying about this stuff and which I had left sooner - my children are damaged by their experiences and I can't change that now. You are the grown up here - it's down to you to take action. Speak to a local DA charity and they will support you.

@JiannaTheWitchQueen

OP you aren't ready to leave and thats ok. It's very easy for posters to badger posters to leave and I understand where it's coming from but in reality it's just taking away an outlet for you.

I don't believe you are abusive. Yes you hit him but you are not abusive. Abusive behaviour is about power and control and I don't believe your one act where you were pushed to the end of your tether counts as abuse.

What you could do, as it's obvious you aren't going to leave and that's ok, is make a safety plan. The national DV website can help you with this. Please do it.

Thank you. I appreciate your post. I have made a safety plan and packed a bag in case. But it all feels like an overreaction to one incident that scared me.

Get him to do the freedom programme for perpetrators whilst he's apologising and wanting to make things better.

There is nothing wrong with you for wanting to make this work. I'm not saying his behaviour is right, it's not, you do not deserve to be treated the way he is treating you, but there is nothing wrong with you. You are doing the best you can.

@ohwhattodowithmylife

I lived in a similar relationship. My ex was abusive. Your husband is abusive- you are just not seeing it for what it is. What you did was called reactive abuse. You need to do the freedom program. Even things like him not wanting you to work until sept etc are all tactics used to keep you dependent. I left my ex when I only worked one day a week and no money. No family home to sell and I live on the south coast where rent is really high. You make it work. I had help from DV charity who gave me food/ presents for the kids the first Christmas. 3 years on I work full time and fully support us financially with no help from him. I am happier and that makes me a better Mum. We have a calm home and my children and I are all processing things - we all have counselling.

I can tell you from bitter experience that this situation will not improve, we did marriage counselling etc again it was all tactics he used to keep us together. After a few months things reverted to how they were. I hated myself for the person I felt I had become.

3 years in I am me, I am free, I live my life according to my values. I have supportive family and friends and have built a life from scratch.

Do not live your life worrying about what if the boiler breaks etc - you will find a way. I spent years worrying about this stuff and which I had left sooner - my children are damaged by their experiences and I can't change that now. You are the grown up here - it's down to you to take action. Speak to a local DA charity and they will support you.

Thank you. I'm sorry about your experience and I'm glad to hear you've made things work. I have spoken to a DA charity and a social worker and both have said it's not an abusive relationship.

@JiannaTheWitchQueen

Get him to do the freedom programme for perpetrators whilst he's apologising and wanting to make things better.

There is nothing wrong with you for wanting to make this work. I'm not saying his behaviour is right, it's not, you do not deserve to be treated the way he is treating you, but there is nothing wrong with you. You are doing the best you can.

I would but he doesn't admit he's abusive. Just angry. And tbh I agree with him.