Can we fix this?

[ConfusedRightNow]

My husband and I have a very volatile relationship. A couple of weeks ago during an argument, away from the kids, he punched a hole in a wall and started shouting and swearing in my face. He is often irritable and throws stuff or slams doors. Usually when the children aren't here but on a couple of occasions in front of the children, which I am really angry about. Our interactions often involve bickering and he is very critical of things I do around the house. He is hardly ever affectionate towards me which I worry is a terrible way to represent relationships to our children (DS6 and DD4).

I am far from blameless though. I try to remain calm but occasionally snap back. In January it reached a head when I'd gone to the bedroom to clear my head, my daughter was calling for me and my husband stood outside the bedroom door telling me what a horrible mother I was. I'm embarrassed to say I lost it and ended up hitting him across the chest and kicking him.

Fast forward to now, a couple of weekends ago, just before the wall punching incident I told my husband I wanted a divorce. He begged me to stay and then got angry. After the wall punching incident I upped and left with the kids to stay with a friend for a few days. But sitting down and looking through finances, I've realised I just can't make ends meet. I can lose having a car, but I'd still only have £100 a month left after rent/mortgage (the latter being smaller), food and bills for anything else; clothes, fuel prices going up, unexpected expenses, books, any treats, school trips. This is taking into account any maintenance from my husband and all benefits we'd be entitled to. So, in conclusion I can't actually afford to leave.

My husband after apologising has signed up for anger management and marriage counselling for us both. After a visit from the police this morning (because the friend I stayed with and my mother recommended I report the wall punching incident) and reflecting on my behaviour I've rung the GP and waiting for a call back about my own anger management. My husband is adamant we can make this work and go back to a happy, healthy family household for our kids.

I'm not so sure. I'm so lost. Should I keep trying? Can we fix this? Or should I push my children into poverty?

The other thing I don't get is if we separate, well they're still going to see their dad. And now I'm not there to supervise. If he is abusive, what if he turns that on them and I'm not there to protect them?

I mean I have no evidence he'd show abuse to them but he admitted to me the other day that he knows he's angry and he knows he takes it out on me because I'm the closest person to him.

@ConfusedRightNow

The other thing I don't get is if we separate, well they're still going to see their dad. And now I'm not there to supervise. If he is abusive, what if he turns that on them and I'm not there to protect them?

There's police involvement. You could apply for supervised contact if you deemed it necessary. But if you don't ever think he'd hurt them there's not really an issue. Them seeing the abuse (and just because SS said it's not doesn't make it so) between the two of you is so damaging.

CRN

re your comment:-
"No, I'm just not convinced he's abusive. The wall thing freaked me the hell out. And the police are involved because I stupidly rang them. But that's the first and only time I've ever felt truly scared. Throwing stuff and slamming doors has just been his outlet for anger (again not usually in front of the kids. They hear more slamming doors from our attached neighbours who slam doors all evening)".

So these kids are getting it from all sides; not just at home but next door too. There is no sanctuary for them is there?. They are actively learning that violent behaviour is the "norm" and that this is how people behave around each other.

You met this man too when you were 18 and had no life experience behind you. After what was likely a tough time at home this man likely seemed like a good way out from all that. He targeted you and deliberately so.

What is your own definition of abuse?.

Abuse is not just physical in nature and is about power and control.
Why did you call your own self stupid for phoning the police; you did that because you were scared and this was a further escalation from him. I would also think it a given too that its yours and the kids stuff he throws and or otherwise damages; not his own things. Its all deliberate and designed to keep you all cowed.

You are failing your own self and your children by keeping them within such a toxic environment.

Do you also think that such a man will actually bother seeing his children in the years going forward?. They will interfere with his free time. I think he will come to use them as pawns as a further means of getting back at you as "punishment" if you actually leave him and mess about with their maintenance money. He will continue to yank your chain.

He should not be around any of you frankly.

No never the kids stuff. Sometimes it's just stuff like pens or scissors so household stuff. Never at me just across the room. He smashed my phone a few years back but he threatened to do it and I stupidly said, "well go on then" so egged him on. Regretted that when I had no phone afterwards.

I don't feel controlled through. I rang a local abuse charity for advice and they went through the list of abuse; financial, emotional etc and told me there had been a couple of occasions of abusive behaviour but that it wasn't an abusive relationship and the worst thing was me losing it in January and hitting him. I don't understand what the control is. He doesn't make me feel great about myself in the lack of affection and the criticism but that's it.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Do you also think that such a man will actually bother seeing his children in the years going forward?. They will interfere with his free time. I think he will come to use them as pawns as a further means of getting back at you as "punishment" if you actually leave him and mess about with their maintenance money. He will continue to yank your chain.

He should not be around any of you frankly.

Yes, I do. When I've mentioned leaving he's got upset and told me he doesn't want to see the children every other weekend. He wants to be in their life as a proper dad in a family environment. He loves then dearly.

I feel stupid for calling the police because once I'd calmed down and thought clearly I realised it's just a wall. It's not like he hit me. And I overreacted and rang the police. So now it's on record. As is the fact I hit my husband because I told them when they asked if there was any violence in the home. I don't know why I got them involved. I feel like such an impulsive idiot.

You were poorly advised by the person who took your call if that is indeed the case but it could be you minimised your relationship out of feelings of shame, guilt and misguided loyalty.

It is indeed a short step between throwing items across the room (I note its never his things or things he uses all that often if at all) and throwing punches. He has previously broke your phone and is now hitting walls; again that is an escalation and one you called the Police for. Its all done by him to intimidate you and in turn your children; the implicit threat is this is what will happen to you if you do not comply. Abuse is about power and control and he wants absolute over you all.

The effects of all this on your children is incalculable but it will be seen and likely in their own adult relationships. They could well end up being themselvees abusers or abused.

OP you don't need this to be officially labelled as an abusive relationship - it's just a word and whether it fits that definition or not, it IS a toxic relationship in which you bring out the worst of each other and model that damaging scenario to your kids.

His tears are fake and he wants to subjugate you all to his will.

He hit a wall this time, next time it could be you with your children seeing that or at the very least hearing that.

Again you minimising what he has done here does you no favours at all. There is no-one as blind as the person who will not see.

If a friend was telling you all this what would your own counsel be?.

Your poor poor children, you are being VERY selfish staying in this relationship.

@YellowFlowersForever

Your poor poor children, you are being VERY selfish staying in this relationship.

It feels very, very selfish subjecting then to poverty because I can't deal with this.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

His tears are fake and he wants to subjugate you all to his will.

He hit a wall this time, next time it could be you with your children seeing that or at the very least hearing that.

Again you minimising what he has done here does you no favours at all. There is no-one as blind as the person who will not see.

If a friend was telling you all this what would your own counsel be?.

Honestly I'd ask her first to contact a domestic abuse charity to talk it through with them. Which I've done.

I'd also ask her where it was coming from. My husband has depression, I'm guessing he's on the Asperger's spectrum. In there is the man I fell in love with 18 years ago. He is the man who shows our kids unconditional love. But something isn't going right for him. And I want that fixed, not to give up on him and our family.

I'd ask her what she wants. I'd let her talk.

Why should you at all have to deal with violence within the home?

Being potentially poorer (and it may well be that you would be better off than you think) is no reason to stay with such a man. You watched your mother struggle financially for some years so this is likely where your rooted fear of poverty comes from. It should not be the overriding factor.

Please do not bring AS at all into this re him. Stop that right now. It’s insulting and also shows an extremely poor understanding of autism at all. It’s not possible to just have a touch of Asperger’s either.

I would put a crisp fiver on it he is not on any autistic spectrum whatsoever. He and his mother do not get on, such men hate women and all of them starting with her. He is angry because he is abusive, not because he is angry.

He does this because he can and he feels he has done nothing wrong with regards to you.

He is the man who shows our kids unconditional love.

And yet...

He is often irritable and throws stuff or slams doors. Usually when the children aren't here but on a couple of occasions in front of the children, which I am really angry about. Our interactions often involve bickering and he is very critical of things I do around the house. He is hardly ever affectionate towards me which I worry is a terrible way to represent relationships to our children (DS6 and DD4).

You've said simultaneously that the issue is money but also that an issue is that they would have unsupervised contact with him and he's admitted that he takes his anger out on the person nearest to him. Doesn't that tell you everything that you need to know about whether you think deep down he is a potential danger to them? You clearly do.

This environment and relationship is utterly toxic and the longer you stay together the more likely it is your daughters will replicate it themselves growing up.

And sadly, if they have partners who punch walls, throw things, break their phones, shout at them and scare them... you will tell them that isn't abuse and that they should stay together if breaking up means having less money. Bloody hell.

I think you minimised your relationship to the domestic violence charity worker you spoke to.

It’s his sole responsibility to change things for his own self if things are not going right for him. Not yours at all and it was never your task either to become a fixer or rehab centre for a badly raised man.

You’re only responsible for your own actions and choices. Your children here have no choice but to follow your lead.

You need to leave him. But I don't think you are ready to see it. There is help and support out there if you want it but you need to get your head out of the sand.

You are writing off a future without him based on fear. You don't know what will happen or how well you will cope, but people do it all the time and thrive. The likelihood is that you will do the same.

You said your son lashes out in anger, why do you think he does that? Is it anything to do with your "volatile" relationship?

Honestly who cares whether it's all him or both of you? Whether it's an "abusive relationship"? It ain't good for any of you and the balance of probability says he is unlikely to change.
There is anger, aggression and violence in your home and that harms all of you.

Does he throw stuff and punch walls at work? I'd be willing to bet he can control himself there.

@ConfusedRightNow

Social services were involved after I considered suicide in January after my outburst and stupidly broke down and told my daughter's nursery worker. Anyway, the social worker has assessed the situation and closed the case. Even they don't think it's abusive.

Please don’t.

I work in this field, it’s definitely abusive. And it has escalated - do you think they’ll close a second referral? A third?

It is a second SS referral. We had one after my daughter was born due to me having post natal anxiety and my husband had a moment where he forgot to bring a changing bag or money to the hospital 30 min drive from home and the hospital staff worried we couldn't cope with the children. But that was closed to. Our family has been assessed and both times no issues gave been found.

All I can see if me sitting in a freezing cold flat telling the kids I can't afford to feed them, crying and tired from exhaustion. Maybe whatever happened in January is because I'm a horrible angry person too. I don't want that future for them.

All I can see if me sitting in a freezing cold flat telling the kids I can't afford to feed them, crying and tired from exhaustion.

Food banks. Support from your GP. Support from SS. Support from friends. Child maintenance from him. Universal credit. Emergency grants for emergencies e.g. boiler. Even if you aren't religious, local churches often have programmes to support mums.

Have you properly explored the possibility of these options before writing off leaving?

Because the picture you've painted involves you telling your children they're going to starve which hopefully isn't something you'd ever tell your children as it would be incredibly irresponsible to do. The kind of awful behaviour that a poster outlined above saying their mum made them cry at the window - grown up problems aren't meant for little brains to have to figure out. Beans on toast is fine for dinner sometimes. A mum crying in front of the children and saying they can't afford to feed them because it's not a meal they'd have been especially excited about before is not fine.

And you don't seem to realise how shocking the picture of their current, real, actual home is where they're seeing and hearing parents throwing things, smashing things, shouting, arguing, bickering and physically assaulting each other.

You two have no business being in a relationship let alone with kids around. Whether it's him / you / both - it's a toxic relationship. Completely.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Please do not bring AS at all into this re him. Stop that right now. It’s insulting and also shows an extremely poor understanding of autism at all. It’s not possible to just have a touch of Asperger’s either.

I would put a crisp fiver on it he is not on any autistic spectrum whatsoever. He and his mother do not get on, such men hate women and all of them starting with her. He is angry because he is abusive, not because he is angry.

He does this because he can and he feels he has done nothing wrong with regards to you.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to be insulting. I just think his neurodiverse nature explains his irritability. His irritability when I put music on because it's too much noise for him. How stressed he gets by water droplets on the floor or washing not hung exactly crease free. His abruptness and rudeness in social situations to the extent my family and several friends don't want to see him. I think he sees the world in a different way to me.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

All I can see if me sitting in a freezing cold flat telling the kids I can't afford to feed them, crying and tired from exhaustion.

Food banks. Support from your GP. Support from SS. Support from friends. Child maintenance from him. Universal credit. Emergency grants for emergencies e.g. boiler. Even if you aren't religious, local churches often have programmes to support mums.

Have you properly explored the possibility of these options before writing off leaving?

Because the picture you've painted involves you telling your children they're going to starve which hopefully isn't something you'd ever tell your children as it would be incredibly irresponsible to do. The kind of awful behaviour that a poster outlined above saying their mum made them cry at the window - grown up problems aren't meant for little brains to have to figure out. Beans on toast is fine for dinner sometimes. A mum crying in front of the children and saying they can't afford to feed them because it's not a meal they'd have been especially excited about before is not fine.

And you don't seem to realise how shocking the picture of their current, real, actual home is where they're seeing and hearing parents throwing things, smashing things, shouting, arguing, bickering and physically assaulting each other.

You two have no business being in a relationship let alone with kids around. Whether it's him / you / both - it's a toxic relationship. Completely.

I just want to fix it. I want my kids to grow up in a happy, family home. Not hungry or cold.

Yes, you're right, that would be a terrible thing to tell them. I don't know what I'd say. Probably just nothing it sorry that I'd done that to them

I just think his neurodiverse nature explains his irritability.

Let's look at this then.

His irritability when I put music on because it's too much noise for him.

Would be a possible sensory issue. He doesn't discuss it calmly though does he? He is angry with you when you do something normal, that makes you happy. He doesn't suggest a compromise, he is cross with you.

How stressed he gets by water droplets on the floor or washing not hung exactly crease free.

Would be a possible sensory issue OR control issue. Does he clean the floor, or you? Does he hang the washing or you? If he had a genuine issue he would want to do it himself not berate you. I assume it's him criticising the way YOU do those things rather than him taking ownership of them?

His abruptness and rudeness in social situations to the extent my family and several friends don't want to see him.

Sounds much more like him being an arsehole, your friends and family recognising that and him managing to isolate you in the process.