To resort to recording "DH" in an argument

[Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]

At the end of my tether with my "DH"
We have a small baby, so it's very stressful but "DH" makes everything a million times harder than necessary
He's often cruel or smart arse and then denying it.
Makes sweeping statements of generousity but not actually following through on them ( but in his head ,it's the same)
I have over the years, started to write down and date episodes , so he cannot dent they happened

Today , I'm physically and emotionally done.
After the zillion things argument where he has denied saying something 30 seconds after doing so : I've told him I'm going to start recording him.
And obviously his tact changed immediately.
Is this it? Shall I start to tell him I'm doing it? Is there any fucking point as even when faced with the evidence: he'll no doubt still not have it?
Has this worked for anyone ? I don't mean as a "tool of control" merely to get him to understand what he saying ?
Or am I just normalising a hopeless situation?

What do you hope to achieve from it? He's never going to say "Oh yes, I can now see you were right all along".

It sounds like you've been putting up with this gaslighting for a very long time. You need to decide if you're prepared to live like that.

Your relationship has got to the point where you're genuinely considering recording his side of the argument between you two. Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life???? He sounds like a gaslighter and you really need to consider leaving him for the good of your mental health, and your child having to grow up with constantly arguing parents. Its good for no-one.

He already knows what he said. He doesn’t need you to play it back so that he can remember straight. All that will happen is he will switch his tactics and will end up telling you you’re crazy or abusive for recording him, or he will speak in a very calm and low voice while denying things in order to make you sound like the crazy one. You can’t win against people like this. Even when you have “proof” against them they will twist it and make out you’re mad, or wrong, or overreacting etc.

If it’s got to this point, honestly do yourself a favour and take a break from it all. Then decide if you want to make it permanent. You need some space to get clarity.

Just start preparing to leave. You cannot fix him, he doesn't want to be fixed. He wants to gaslight, manipulate, lie, threaten and control because that's how he gets away with his other behaviours - not pulling his weight, spending or controlling all the money, addictions, whatever whatever, its all the same.

All you can do is leave. Protect your health, mental & physical, and your child's wellbeing. Leave.

What makes you think he doesn't understand exactly what he's saying?

There is absurdly no point in doing this. Why waste you precious time trying to justify yourself to him? Abusive men always movethe goalposts. Stop trying to reason with him because he won't respond to reason

@DetailMouse
@Tothemoonandbackx
I'm exhausted. Exhausted. I'm so sick of him gaslighting me. He's been doing it for years.
People always say LTB but in reality , it's so much more complicated than that. I would need to move , I'd need to give up my job etc etc.
I would I like to try counselling , but he keeps putting it off ( I expect he doesn't want to heat thy HE may be the problem )

Put your energy into leaving would be my advice

He has been gaslighting you for years and yet you stayed with him and had a baby with him. Why do women put up with this shit?!!!

I recorded my ex for years but when he had it played back to him
He walked out - I had a letter from a bank proving he did something he said that he didn’t do - the bank was lying. Or he just stopped talking and walked off and refused to discuss it as ‘I had attitude’ divorce or go nc can’t tell you how freeing it is

I'm so sick of him gaslighting me. He's been doing it for years.

I'm guessing that the baby was a surprise?

Why do you have to leave your job to leave him? Do you work together?

@PinkSyCo thanks, that's helpful !
Did it occur to you that smart and accomplishment woman such as myself, have been with these men since we were young, didn't know any better and normalised behaviour?

@Prettynails this is what I suspect would happen

@RampantIvy , again none of us KNEW what gaslighting WAS or how it was abusive until very recently , have care.

I've been where you are...and took to recording our conversations openly however it is the sign of a completely toxic relationship and so far away from normal. You only get to this stage after years of a toxic (often narcisstic) partner wearing you down that you lose all sight of what's normal. Stop and think...is this really how you have to communicate?

I didn't know what I was dealing with when marriaged so, like you, tried "rational" approaches to improve communication but later realised he didnt want to be rational.

In my case (and likely to be the same for you) this is about control. The best advice I learned was "to observe not absorb" this means don't get sucked into his drama - see and hear his reactions. I bet he isn't seeking mutuality or trying to find a compromise which is why he gaslights and manipulates. Another term I learned which ex deployed was "word salad". Every debate left me more confused.

I dint think you can fix this..maybe with such a young baby you can't make decisions but the best approach whilst staying to not engage as that just burns your energy which you need for a young baby.

@PinkSyCo thanks, that's helpful !
Did it occur to you that smart and accomplishment woman such as myself, have been with these men since we were young, didn't know any better and normalised behaviour?

You have known for years this behaviour isn’t normal though, or you wouldn’t have been making notes of episodes for so long.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

Just start preparing to leave. You cannot fix him, he doesn't want to be fixed. He wants to gaslight, manipulate, lie, threaten and control because that's how he gets away with his other behaviours - not pulling his weight, spending or controlling all the money, addictions, whatever whatever, its all the same.

All you can do is leave. Protect your health, mental & physical, and your child's wellbeing. Leave.

I’ve been where you are now and I agree with everything PP have said.

He’s abusive and manipulative and he will not change. This is not a behaviour, it’s who he is.

Leave as soon as you can. Say nothing to him and make your plans well in advance. Only tell him at the last minute - men like him can be threatening and even violent when they know they have lost control of you.

So please plan carefully for your own sake as well as your baby’s.

[quote PinkSyCo]@PinkSyCo thanks, that's helpful !
Did it occur to you that smart and accomplishment woman such as myself, have been with these men since we were young, didn't know any better and normalised behaviour?

You have known for years this behaviour isn’t normal though, or you wouldn’t have been making notes of episodes for so long.[/quote]
You're so right, she should have got out of this situation ages ago so she totally deserves a kicking for it now instead of advice or support

This relationship was over the moment you even considered using a recording device to defeat your partner.

Without knowing you it's hard to know if it's you being controlling/demanding, him being useless/aggressive, or both, but either way forensic evidence has no place in an adult relationship.

Press "stop", not "record".

@RampantIvy , again none of us KNEW what gaslighting WAS or how it was abusive until very recently , have care.

We may not have had a name for it, but we knew it made us unhappy and was wrong.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@RampantIvy , again none of us KNEW what gaslighting WAS or how it was abusive until very recently , have care.[/quote]
Of course we did. It's been a common phrase since the 60s. And it's delivered from a movie from 1944.

I understand this. It might be helpful for you to have a recording of what’s been said, something to help explain how you are feeling. It’s torturous.
@PinkSyCo
I would love to borrow your crystal ball, if that’s ok?

I’ve been in a relationship with a man like this. Recording him is pointless, he will just find another way to gaslight you and make you out to be crazy and mentally ill. Men like this don’t change. Relationships like this don’t get better.

Please, please consider leaving - if not for you then for your child who deserves better than a father who behaves like this to their mother.

And couple counselling is a waste of time and money. In fact most agencies won’t take you on once they know there is abuse - you will need to be seen sep

I've been there - and no it won't make any difference. This guy knows what he is doing, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge it. His aim is control you and confuse you so you do what he wants, all the time. He's enjoying seeing you twist yourself in knots, and that's one thing you really need to think about. That he's enjoying himself as you pretzel yourself about.

You are only even thinking of tolerating this because you have a child and he knows it. Has he told you yet that you should give up a job, friends, etc. It will not be long if you go to therapy with him, there's nothing to fix here, and you've got to make plans very quietly to leave.