To resort to recording "DH" in an argument

[Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]

At the end of my tether with my "DH"
We have a small baby, so it's very stressful but "DH" makes everything a million times harder than necessary
He's often cruel or smart arse and then denying it.
Makes sweeping statements of generousity but not actually following through on them ( but in his head ,it's the same)
I have over the years, started to write down and date episodes , so he cannot dent they happened

Today , I'm physically and emotionally done.
After the zillion things argument where he has denied saying something 30 seconds after doing so : I've told him I'm going to start recording him.
And obviously his tact changed immediately.
Is this it? Shall I start to tell him I'm doing it? Is there any fucking point as even when faced with the evidence: he'll no doubt still not have it?
Has this worked for anyone ? I don't mean as a "tool of control" merely to get him to understand what he saying ?
Or am I just normalising a hopeless situation?

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@OatmilkandCookies how do I do that pls?[/quote]
I think you just click report, and put in the comments you'd like it to be moved

@Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns alot of the time you will hear that men (and women) who abuse are calculated and they pick there victims. However, I truly believe that there are men and women out there who don't realise that their behaviour is abusive - particularly when they are psychologically abusive. You firstly want to arm yourself with knowledge on abuse. Then you can tell him. If he doesn't believe you then show him what you find through websites/organisations etc. Counselling or cbt therapy can also help people in realising their behaviour is abusive.

@TravellingFrom no I fantasise about leaving all the time! It's just that it's not simply a case of "moving home" as I've explained.

I AM worried about the posters saying "no therapy" and that they can gaslight the councillors? Surely they are trained to spot this behaviour? It also makes me sad , cos that means no abuser would ever fix thier ways? If they cannot attend therapy with their spouse?
I don't want DH to continue with this in his life as he will be unhappy forever

Hi @Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns we'll move this for you now.

I suspected that you didn't have a support network, so that is something else you will have to work on. Whether or not you opt to leave, everyone needs a support network which is why abusers often fix it so that their victim is isolated.

There is no point. What do you think it would achieve? That he'd suddenly, magically, turn into someone he's not and has never been? You either continue to live with it, to leave. He's not going to go to counseling. He's not going to magically realise after you play back recordings of arguments that he's wrong, so the choice of how, and if, this relationship continues is up to you

Hi OP
Just wanted to say that writing it down for your benefit might be worth doing- rather than recording it for him. This will help you keep your counsel if you do decide to leave and he tries to sweet talk you. It can be easy to forget and just try to move on. But a note to yourself might be useful. Keep it digital and password protected though.

I have done this in a different situation to assure myself that I wasn’t perceiving stuff. It helped to go back and read on a calmer moment and be more objective and - ultimately - kind to myself.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@TravellingFrom no I fantasise about leaving all the time! It's just that it's not simply a case of "moving home" as I've explained.

I AM worried about the posters saying "no therapy" and that they can gaslight the councillors? Surely they are trained to spot this behaviour? It also makes me sad , cos that means no abuser would ever fix thier ways? If they cannot attend therapy with their spouse?
I don't want DH to continue with this in his life as he will be unhappy forever[/quote]
Yes.
Never have counselling with an abuser. They can wrap people around their little finger and make you appear the unreasonable one.

Go for counselling in your own

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@TravellingFrom no I fantasise about leaving all the time! It's just that it's not simply a case of "moving home" as I've explained.

I AM worried about the posters saying "no therapy" and that they can gaslight the councillors? Surely they are trained to spot this behaviour? It also makes me sad , cos that means no abuser would ever fix thier ways? If they cannot attend therapy with their spouse?
I don't want DH to continue with this in his life as he will be unhappy forever[/quote]
There is absolutely nothing you can do for him. You cannot help him. You cannot change him. You cannot save your relationship. You cannot save him.

Save yourself instead.

I was a psychotherapist and sometimes I had to bite my tongue with clients who brought similar stories to me because they needed to understand this for themselves. To really understand it and to know it.

I can be a little less circumspect because I'm not your therapist, but you may still need time to understand and to know this for yourself.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@Justcallmebabs that's hopefu, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks to those who've been in similar situations: I just always hope one day that I'll get through to him ..[/quote]
You will not get through to him. Something might happen which will force him to change the way he is but it will not be one of your explanations. If only I had a penny for every time I thought ‘well, maybe I didn’t explain myself right, maybe I didn’t pick the right time, maybe I did overreact…blah blah blah…’

He's probably recording you since you gave him the idea. He'll be doing it on his mobile under the table.

Does he go all silent while he's winding you up? Giving the recording the impression that you're a crazy biatch abusing him?

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@TravellingFrom no I fantasise about leaving all the time! It's just that it's not simply a case of "moving home" as I've explained.

I AM worried about the posters saying "no therapy" and that they can gaslight the councillors? Surely they are trained to spot this behaviour? It also makes me sad , cos that means no abuser would ever fix thier ways? If they cannot attend therapy with their spouse?
I don't want DH to continue with this in his life as he will be unhappy forever[/quote]
My god you sound like me in so many ways.
Most of the therapists are NOT trained in abuse and most of them WILL be manipulated by your dh to a great extent… you will go in being honest and he will not. Don’t. Get a therapist for yourself you sound really co-dependant. You’ve had some great advice on this forum, start working on yourself, this relationship is 99% beyond repair.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation I know this iisn't the right thread to lol, but bitch Bitch Plop has got to be my new favourite word. It seems wholly appropriate for a lot of AIBU replies.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@DetailMouse
@Tothemoonandbackx
I'm exhausted. Exhausted. I'm so sick of him gaslighting me. He's been doing it for years.
People always say LTB but in reality , it's so much more complicated than that. I would need to move , I'd need to give up my job etc etc.
I would I like to try counselling , but he keeps putting it off ( I expect he doesn't want to heat thy HE may be the problem )[/quote]
Go to counselling on your own. It will be much more helpful

It also makes me sad , cos that means no abuser would ever fix thier ways? If they cannot attend therapy with their spouse?

Mostly, they can't.

It's really rare for someone to recognise themselves as abusive. If they do, they need to take responsibility for change, via individual counselling.

Couples counselling isn't appropriate.

I had one DC, a baby at the time, when we went for counselling. We went nearly every week for a year. By the end of the year I was pregnant with DC2.

He made me sound crazy so many times. The counsellor would make suggestions for work for us to do, which would be valid for a 'normal' couple. He just wouldn't do it. She pushed & pushed over one exercise for 6 weeks. At the end of the 6 weeks, she just looked at him baffled, and gave up. He described scenarios where I had lost it, and I sounded mental. I would admit this but it was impossible to explain the context.

He finally admitted at the end that he had never had any intention of changing and never felt he was the problem. He was there, he said, for the counsellor to 'fix me'. The counsellor was stupefied. She actually cried. But I realise now she had no idea how abusive he was, really.

We had a third DC. Then tried counselling again. (I had given him an ultimatum; asked him if he wanted to leave. Said we had to have counselling if he wanted to stay, and he assured me he was committed to change). It was a disaster (expensive too).

When I look back, I was unbelievably stupid. He used to love going. The sessions were rubbish. After we'd get a coffee before going home to the kids. He loved that bit. He used to be happy for that short time & I decided to believe that he was changing. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I mean, honestly, I'd have clutched at any straw, I was so desperate.

This is your life, OP. Do you want to spend further years or decades like this?

Don't waste your time.

@LaingsAcidTab is confused by what you mean? Why would you bite your tongue - is that not why they're there? What client- the abuser /abusee? What do they need to figure out?
@EarringsandLipstick
oh that is so sad nothing worked. I don't think DH wants to change either, tbh but I was hoping a straight talking therapist would tell him "you need to fix yourself" would help. What did the councillor tell you in the end?

I was hoping a straight talking therapist would tell him "you need to fix yourself" would help. What did the councillor tell you in the end?

I doubt a therapist would say that, and if they did, it would be ignored by an abuser. It would likely make things worse for you, too (they'd blame you).

In my case, once he admitted he was utterly uncommitted and only came to 'fix' me, the therapy ended. The counsellor did say to him that I had committed to the process, whereas he hadn't.

The counsellor clearly realised the marriage was unfixable. She was very good & I liked her a lot. However, she didn't spot the abuse really. I only did really after the marriage was over & I got counselling.

She was upset for me, but I was pregnant with a toddler at home. She couldn't say much really.

I think you need to look at support for you only. Stop trying to fix him. You can't. And you'll break yourself in the process.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@LaingsAcidTab is confused by what you mean? Why would you bite your tongue - is that not why they're there? What client- the abuser /abusee? What do they need to figure out?
@EarringsandLipstick
oh that is so sad nothing worked. I don't think DH wants to change either, tbh but I was hoping a straight talking therapist would tell him "you need to fix yourself" would help. What did the councillor tell you in the end? [/quote]
As a therapist you learn that people will only hear what they're ready to hear. Telling them usually makes very little difference. The only time I was prescriptive was if a client's safety was at stake, at which point I shifted out of therapy mode and into safeguarding mode.

But no, stating things outright is surprisingly ineffective - as is evidenced here on your thread.

I'm referring to abusees, not abusers.

Gaslighting can destroy you. Mentally first, but then eventually it impacts you physiologically. How can it not. There are countless books about psychological trauma leading to physical disease. Your future and that of your baby doesn't look good if you don't get away from this person OP.

Is he open to couple's counselling...? Worth a try maybe..

My ex gaslit the arse off me, leaving me an emotional and physical wreck which impacted EVERY area of my life. I could not and will not give anyone the time of day who pulls this level of manipulative shit.

Put you and your child first. He sounds toxic. Only you know though.. the trouble with gaslighting is that you're left doubting yourself. Doubting reality. It can get dangerous.

Put you and your child first.

I am in my sixties ,educated with a responsible job and I didn’t know what gaslighting meant. I did leave a partner who behaved like this a couple of years ago. I stayed because we had a child and ex said he was depressed so I tried to help and support him and excused his bad behaviour until it got too much. To other people he came across as charming and funny .

Have you heard the joke about the gaslighter? No? Yes, you have. You HAVE.

You won't be able to win here. He'll move the goalposts or start arguing about something else. The trick here is to stop trying to make him be normal or rational and leave. No matter what the cost.

Never, ever go to couples counselling with him.