To resort to recording "DH" in an argument

[Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]

At the end of my tether with my "DH"
We have a small baby, so it's very stressful but "DH" makes everything a million times harder than necessary
He's often cruel or smart arse and then denying it.
Makes sweeping statements of generousity but not actually following through on them ( but in his head ,it's the same)
I have over the years, started to write down and date episodes , so he cannot dent they happened

Today , I'm physically and emotionally done.
After the zillion things argument where he has denied saying something 30 seconds after doing so : I've told him I'm going to start recording him.
And obviously his tact changed immediately.
Is this it? Shall I start to tell him I'm doing it? Is there any fucking point as even when faced with the evidence: he'll no doubt still not have it?
Has this worked for anyone ? I don't mean as a "tool of control" merely to get him to understand what he saying ?
Or am I just normalising a hopeless situation?

I should add - the prospect of us hearing ourselves row is very unappealing so I wouldn't use it as a way to catch your DH out. I'm fully aware I probably sound as awful when arguing as my DH does.

He knows what he's saying, all that recording will do is to give him ammunition against you. Now you recognise he's been gaslighting you do you have anyone you can talk to about it in real life?

To everyone asking about moving /jobs ( don't know why?) I have no support network where I am, and have an antisocial job - so I'd need to move/leave my ( good) job to be closer to those who could help, or give up all together

I might try and find a counsellor for myself tomorrow, so I can decide whether IM this issue but I really,reallu doubt it

And I AM very hesitant about couple therapy , as he is very persuasive and polite/amiable when he needs to be.

@Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns

To everyone asking about moving /jobs ( don't know why?) I have no support network where I am, and have an antisocial job - so I'd need to move/leave my ( good) job to be closer to those who could help, or give up all together

I might try and find a counsellor for myself tomorrow, so I can decide whether IM this issue but I really,reallu doubt it

And I AM very hesitant about couple therapy , as he is very persuasive and polite/amiable when he needs to be.

I have no idea but I would bet money on you not being the issue. If though you aren't prepared to look into leaving him then unfortunately recording him will change nothing.

@impossible no,I told him I was starting to record He changed tact immediately.

@Peasock no I think DM was sick of hearing about him and just told me not to expect much from him? BF knows most of what's going on, but she lives far away ( with her own very real personal issues) she I kind and supportive.

I have not read any replies so someone may of said this already.

It is known as gaslighting -making you doubt the truth. Trying to make you doubt whether what you believe happened, did actually happen.

I'm really sorry but it is a form of abuse. Don't put up with it - it will make you feel crazy. If he does it enough times you will actually start to doubt yourself even though you now deep down that what you believe is the truth. Maybe have a read of some domestic abuse websites - see if you recognise anything more within your relationship as being abusive. If so, I strongly suggest leaving. Being a parent, especially with a baby is hard enough without arguments and/or abuse tearing you apart bit by bit until your a shadow of yourself and wrecking your mental health.

@Greyarea12 thank you. I think it's if HE realised that it's abuse? Men know ( can't speak for Same sex) that if they HIT you, it's wrong? But I don't know if I believe that HE believes that "gaslighting" is what's he doing or that it's wrong? I hope that makes sense?

None of what you have said is normal. The relationship sounds toxic. He clearly doesn’t care what he is saying or he wouldn’t be saying it and then denying it. It all sounds exhausting, do you think he can change? Are you willing to wait until he does?

But OP, couldn't that be the point of recording? If he changes tack that is a very good time to discuss whatever the issue is in a calmer way.

OP you say you have no local support. Is it your working hours that are the problem or the cost of childcare?

If it's the hours, could you speak to your employer about working set hours for the foreseeable?
If it's the cost of childcare, you should be able to get help towards costs.

Is your job one where location could be transferred or you could WFH?

You have a small baby, if that baby isn’t growing up in a household where parents love and respect each other then it’s time to make a change. It doesn’t matter what you’ve tolerated before, you’re not the only person in this relationship any more.

He's been absolutely gaslighting you. I would echo PP about leaving.
However, you might want to ask for this to be moved to relationships - I see you've already had a few nasty comments, which unfortunately happens on AIBU.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@Justcallmebabs that's hopefu, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks to those who've been in similar situations: I just always hope one day that I'll get through to him ..[/quote]
He’s doing it on purpose. You can’t “get through to him” because he already knows and is actively choosing to treat you like this.

I had an abusive ex and the mistake I made was thinking ‘the real him’ was a normal person underneath who circumstances had made behave a certain way. But I had it the wrong way round - the nasty, abusive man was the real him! The glimpses of Mr Nice Guy we’re all just an act. He really was (and is) not a nice or good person.

Remove yourself mentally from the situation. Don’t record him, don’t even bother arguing. Often the arguments are started purposely to lead you round in circles and mess with your head. Refuse to play his games.

Then, look to leave him. You won’t believe how much more like yourself you’ll feel once you’ve got out of that toxic environment. You’ll also be doing the best thing for your baby.

Please read Why does he do that by Lundy. I was always excusing ExH behavior because it made so little sense to me. Why ruin your life when you've got everything you want and more?

The book literally freed me. He does it cos he enjoys destroying. The harder you are to crack the more he enjoys it.

Incompréhensible but true!

@OatmilkandCookies how do I do that pls?

I put YUBU as if the relationship has got to the point where you'd want to record him, then to me it's the end of the road? All it would do is feed into his narrative that you are crazy and unhinged. It's not a normal thing to do in a relationship.

If it's got this bad, then it's time to leave?

Don't do this, it's toxic and abusive behaviour.

I completely understand why you want to but honestly it won't make any difference, he knows what he's doing, he isn't confused or making a mistake his gaslighting is deliberate.

As an aside, my ex was secretly recording me, or would get one of his sisters on the phone to listen without me knowing. He would cause a huge argument, gaslight me into feeling like I was crazy then threatened to publish all said recordings so the world could see just how fucked up I was. He did the same to his ex before me.

You need to leave him, it won't get better, and don't tell him you're leaving until the last possible moment, men like this become enraged and unpredictable when they lose control of you.

OP I completely agree with your point that men realise physical violence is wrong but might not have caught up on verbal abuse being just as bad.
My DH was like yours. I think he was just brought up to be argumentative- he had to fight his corner verbally at home and at school and just got into the mindset of being a smart arse trying to always make a winning point. He refused to go to counselling (too tight to spend the money also i think realised that he was in the wrong) so we bought a book of marriage guidance questions to work through. I think he finally listened when I said I found him sometimes to be a bully because we agreed to follow the instructions in the book to listen without answering. So he listened without also being busy trying to come up with the next point to argue. He also got feedback from a work colleague calling him a bully which help reinforce my point. He does seem to make an effort now to communicate better.
I don't think recording him would help because he does know exactly what he is doing already. I do recommend working through a marriage guidance book though if you can persuade him to.

I felt exactly the same and considered doing it with my XH. I was so beaten down, physically and mentally drained with young DC.

He then left for OW. I can honestly say my stress levels dropped immediately.

I feel so so free now

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@Justcallmebabs that's hopefu, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks to those who've been in similar situations: I just always hope one day that I'll get through to him ..[/quote]
I was the same. I would never have left, always hoping that things would improve.

I'm so thankful he met the OW and left

I had an abusive ex and the mistake I made was thinking ‘the real him’ was a normal person underneath who circumstances had made behave a certain way. But I had it the wrong way round - the nasty, abusive man was the real him!

Echoing this & what many others have said.

I was in this situation too. I was so ground down by his abuse, I didn't know what was normal or not.

OP I really get it. You have invested so much in believing your H is a 'good' man, father and can be redeemed, it feels impossible to face up to the reality that this is who he is. There is no 'good man'.

Towards the end of my marriage, I would send endless texts repeating what he'd said, showing evidence of his financial abuse etc. didn't matter. His goal was to drive me crazy. He didn't care about the facts or what I thought. The objective was to see me losing it / being stressed / upset.

It's time to move on

I know someone who did this, she moved out a month or so after and is now happily divorced

Whatever you do, do not go to counselling with him as they say you should never do that with an abuser as he will gaslight the therapist. You should go on your own as it will do you good to have someone to talk to. I had this also in a relationship and it broke my soul/spirit and nearly destroyed me as a person. None of us knew what it was and I did not until I came on mn. Then when you are in that situation they make you feel like you are nuts and wear you down and you lose your confidence. I would record him and keep it for when you hopefully leave him, if not now then in the future. He will never change or admit he has an issue. All as you can do is distance yourself and try to save some money and get a plan ready for the future and talk to someone and open up to family and friends. It is horrible to be in this situation but there is a way out and you can do it, if not now then in the near future as this is not a role model for your child. Sorry to hear you are going though this. Ignore him and change your behaviour now as he does not deserve your love.

I might try and find a counsellor for myself tomorrow, so I can decide whether IM this issue but I really,reallu doubt it

Ok, that’s the best step you can do just right now.
From your posts, you don’t seem ready to actually leave. Each time that someone is proposing that, you are coming out with plenty of reasons as to why not.
Now I’m not saying that those reasons don’t exist. But you need to work through that and feel strong enough to actually ‘Stuff it. It will be hard but it’s going to be 100x times than what I have now’.

So go for counselling ON YOUR OWN.
Get clarity of what’s going on.
And then you’ll see, things will fall into place.

There's no point in couples counseling when someone is using that level of manipulation. He'd just see it as a challenge to 'win'. Get out. That's the only way to rebuild your trust in yourself.