To resort to recording "DH" in an argument

[Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]

At the end of my tether with my "DH"
We have a small baby, so it's very stressful but "DH" makes everything a million times harder than necessary
He's often cruel or smart arse and then denying it.
Makes sweeping statements of generousity but not actually following through on them ( but in his head ,it's the same)
I have over the years, started to write down and date episodes , so he cannot dent they happened

Today , I'm physically and emotionally done.
After the zillion things argument where he has denied saying something 30 seconds after doing so : I've told him I'm going to start recording him.
And obviously his tact changed immediately.
Is this it? Shall I start to tell him I'm doing it? Is there any fucking point as even when faced with the evidence: he'll no doubt still not have it?
Has this worked for anyone ? I don't mean as a "tool of control" merely to get him to understand what he saying ?
Or am I just normalising a hopeless situation?

@PinkSyCo have you considered taking your amazing insight and advice some place else? Anywhere else, really.

I'd record him. Serves him right. He's horrible. But I'd also be preparing to leave at the same time.

@PinkSyCo

You are only even thinking of tolerating this because you have a child and he knows it.

Incorrect. He has been gaslighting her for years before she had his child.

What does this add, exactly? She has to deal with today. And she is only resorting to this idea of recording, because she's got a child, I will bet.

OP, you might find it helpful to post in the Relationships board - AIBU tends to be a bit of a bearpit where people come and bitch-plop on threads to temporarily relieve their own frustrations.

Recording your abuser won't help - nor will joint counselling. Abusers often manager to twist things and use the counselling to further diminish your spirit and convince you that you're in the wrong.

Seek counselling on your own and look to strengthen your morale and confidence so you can make an exit plan.

You deserve so much better than this and you CAN get it.

Just leave him, OP. He’s not worth this anguish.

Op, I cross posted. Completely understand why you are exhausted which is why disengaging/low reacting is your best strategy. You can't win this but you can make life more bearable for yourself whilst your baby is so young.

This is about his control so if you attempt to balance equality (get your needs met in one area) he will just ramp up in another area. Ex had a mantra "control or be controlled" such was his faulty thinking - as a result every relationship ended up with him having to be in control.

Counselling will not help, in fact he will use it against you. Please believe those of us who have been in your position.

Take today as day 1 of learning what you are dealing with. Use the knowledge you can pick up to find a way to make your life more bearable until you feel ready to leave.

I know what you’re saying about it not being easy to leave, but there’s a baby in this now who will either learn that she is supposed to put up with this or that it’s the way for him to treat women when he’s grown.

It won’t be easy and it doesn’t have to be straight away.

But you can check out mentally and start making plans.

(I’m not sure why you’d need to give up your job or move away, but you can start thinking about a plan and a timeframe so that you have something to aim towards and regain some control even if he doesn’t realise you’re doing it)

If you're at the point of recording each other in arguments, I would say the relationship is pretty much over.

I know you don't want to leave but I think you need to think about whether you want this to be your life for the next 20-30 years.

Lawyer up OP hes not going to change just because you record him.

I think that people with these kind of personality traits. are sad and angry about their own lives, and especially when things go wrong for them in different areas of their life, as in they havent achieved many things, when all the time, they always thought they were ace at anything, or everything.. They get aggrieved about their shortcomings, but lash out at others with some inner anger, and blame others for all things instead.

I’m with you @PinkSyCo

You have known for years his treatment was not normal, because you’ve been documenting for years. Similarly it doesn’t matter whether you think it was normal or not, you knew you weren’t happy.

What made you have a baby with him? If you want to keep going with this relationship then remember all the reasons you were sure parenting with this man was sensible.

If you want to end the relationship then harness all the feelings you had when you started to write down evidence.

Why would you have to move and leave your job ?

Are you concerned he would harass or stalk you ?

You know if you do record him, he's going to change tack and accuse you of being insane and abusive instead, don't you?

You need out, not a recording (although it might be a plan for threats he'll make about having you sectioned and never seeing your DC again - they'll be the next thing on the list).

Its a hopeless situation. I did this with exH and he would refuse to listen to it or fly into a rage because I was defying him. It just doesn't help because he won't listen and you need to be responsive for this tactic to work.

@NeverDropYourMooncup oh yes. Since I told what gaslighting was ; he's tried to say it to me
:{

I have been in your exact position. My husband and I got to the point of recording and taking notes of what each was saying. There were other things going on in our relationship. My husband was secretly an alcoholic and I was totally in the dark but knew there was something not right. Regardless the notes and recording were more about how toxic our communication had become. We were completely on a hamster wheel of having the same arguments. It was almost like a script. We have been in marriage counselling since the summer and my husband is in recovery. MC has been the best thing we have done and really helped us so much with how we speak to each other. It has saved our marriage. Could that be something you would both try? Does he recognise there is a problem? He can’t be happy with how you speak to each other?

@DetailMouse

What do you hope to achieve from it? He's never going to say "Oh yes, I can now see you were right all along".

It sounds like you've been putting up with this gaslighting for a very long time. You need to decide if you're prepared to live like that.

This! 100%

You already know that what he’s saying is out of order.

Don't waste your time like I did. Once it gets to this place, it is done. I know it's easy to say this as a stranger and you have a child (so do I) . Don't bother with couples therapy, he will use it against you. Try and disengage, maybe leaving him to simmer in his own thoughts will help. I'm not being a hypocrite here as I know first hand how a situation like this makes you feel you are losing your mind. Just try and disengage, do not argue or defend or explain anything, focus on yourself

@Justcallmebabs that's hopefu, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks to those who've been in similar situations: I just always hope one day that I'll get through to him ..

XH didn't have any underlying 'issues' when he used to do this- he just HAD to be right because he had been brought up to believe he was always right. And for a long time I conceded because that was how I had been brought up.

When I got to the point of seriously considering recording him though I knew it was time to get out.

It wasn't the only thing wrong in our marriage by a long chalk, but it was one of the biggies.

[quote Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns]@Justcallmebabs that's hopefu, I'm glad it's working for you.

Thanks to those who've been in similar situations: I just always hope one day that I'll get through to him ..[/quote]
you won't. Don't waste your time.

I don't think counselling works, OP, when there is abuse. But you could go for counselling for yourself as you have been the victim of gaslighting for so long.

And if you cannot leave now, maybe you could start planning for when you can leave. For example, if leaving means you would have to change your job, you could start looking at those options meanwhile.

He won’t change.
Why would you need to change jobs? Get a divorce, sort out the equity from the house.

Do you really want to stay in this relationship? It sounds horrible.

My DH and I have occasionally recorded our rows as when we argue we tend to qgo off on tangents and end up arguing about what we each just said rather than the initial problem.

I was the first to suggest it mid argument. DH was not pleased but I did it in any case with phone. He's also suggested it a few times. We place the phone visibly between us and are fully aware of it.

Interestingly, we have never played the recording back - we immediately delete - but having the phone there takes the heat out of the row and we are both much more reasonable and aware of what we say. Usually we resolve the issue pretty quickly.

So I think it's not a bad idea as a moderating force.