PIL turning up uninvited

[Hidingin]

I have a terrible relationship with PIL. They are rude and cruel to me, make fun of me, judge me, openly criticise me. They comment on our house, relationship, careers, our parenting, anything really and it’s never ever a positive comment. I normally shut this down with a ‘thanks but we’re happy with what we’re doing’ type comment but it’s relentless. Whilst they aren’t often horrible to DC they aren’t always the nicest either.
I ask them not to be rude, I have protected dc and DH defends us all too. but a lot happens subtly, and it becomes a waste of time as they deny everything or say we are just being sensitive if we raise any issues. Or occasionally they get incredibly mad, and will scream and swear at myself and DH even in front of DC. so when they’re in our house really I’m just trying to not let things blow up. There’s a lot more examples but we are now LC, with periods of NC after any particularly bad behaviour. Though they do pretend like nothing happened the next day, and then the rest of the family will comment on how cruel we are being in not having them over to our house enough.

My main issue is that sometimes even though we are LC, they just show up at our house uninvited. When they show up they will look in the windows and they won’t leave if they think we are in, so just ignoring them isn’t an option. They once stayed for 15 minutes whilst I was bathing dc and couldn’t get to the door. The entire time they were banging on the door, looking through the windows, and even shouting my name. DH was at work, and saw them on our security cameras. So he called them and asked them to come back later when he was home instead as I was obviously either out or couldn’t get to the door. But they said no, then they carried on knocking on the door and windows at the front of the house and then walked around the sides and back of the house, knocking on all of the windows and still shouting, letting themselves into our back garden and trying to open the side and back doors to let themselves in, getting more and more angry as time went on. I couldn’t hide upstairs with DC indefinitely so had to let them in, they were angry and started talking to DC about how silly mummy was, and can’t she hear anything? Why did she spend all that money on security cameras if she’s not going to look at them when people come to the house? Why won’t she let PIL see DC, aren’t DC much happier with PIL rather than just mummy, don’t DC love love PIL more than mummy and daddy…and so on…

Ive obviously asked politely and then more firmly told them not to come round uninvited. DH has also told them. But still they just turn up.
Sometimes I feel like I can’t relax in my own home because I know they could turn up any minute and we have to let them in and have them be rude to us in the house, or have a confrontation at the door where we tell them they can’t come in. I can also feel my anxiety building at any occasion that’s supposed to be nice like birthdays or even when dc2 was born because I know there’s even more chance of them turning up than normal.

I just don’t know how to stop getting so anxious about this. I don’t think it’s my decision to go no contact as they’re not my parents. I have attempted NC myself and DH can go visit at their house whenever he wants. But still they turn up at our house.

I think he’s actually the peacemaker

It is going to be hard for him to have that lightbulb moment where he realises that his siblings really don't care about him

I think they do in general, they’re just all part of this abuse cycle. In this particular case their needs outweigh DHs. I think he is struggling to reconcile that.

OP I feel for you so much and have experienced similar experiences when going NC with my grandmother after my parents passed, uncles and aunties constantly asking me to rebuild a toxic relationship but it's not for my benefit, I have just had to learn stone wall and make it clear this will never be an option. As time has gone on the requests have been less frequent but it's exhausting!

We can’t afford to move and DH absolutely doesn’t want to go NC
As I said, it’s in laws, I don’t have the control that I would do if it was my own independent relationship

We have agreed today that we will reduce visits to our house to one visit a month for a time when DC and I are already planning to be out of the house

DH says he needs to know he has tried everything he could to make his relationship work with PILs before he goes NC and to make them see that they are not being very nice. I understand why he feels like that, I think it’s a waste of time but I can’t prevent that from happening or it will damage our relationship.

This is taken from Reddit (copied and pasted it here) and I think it sums up perfectly the dynamic between your DH and his mother (as I really think, again based on what you've posted here) that it is that dynamic that needs sorting out and the rest will follow in due course.
Apologies that this is long but it's worth a read:

I've been thinking about this phrase a lot lately, about how unfair it is. Because we aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.

At some point in her youth, Mum/MIL gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.

The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?

Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.

A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did .

When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Now you and your DH get a boat of your own. With him not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.

While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!

So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and DH see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier.

You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.

I see your PiL as boat-rockers here, your DH as the boat-steadier and his siblings as flying monkeys.

Just a quick reply. I haven't rtft. I went NC with my father. DM then didn't come round for a while but eventually did on her own as I wouldn't have him in the house. Unfortunately, it's caused a rift between the siblings (there were also other issues). He'll be laughing wherever he is as he in life enjoyed causing ructions between people.

"We have agreed today that we will reduce visits to our house to one visit a month for a time when DC and I are already planning to be out of the house"

What has been agreed exactly?. Again this is all designed to make your DH feel more "comfortable". You people still have to be out of the house. He really does not want to rock that boat he's in does he?.

"DH says he needs to know he has tried everything he could to make his relationship work with PILs before he goes NC and to make them see that they are not being very nice"

I would tell him that he's been trying his whole life re them and they will never be the nice and kind people he still so wants them to be. What he has tried to date also has not worked and you're been used here as some sort of buffer between he and them. His thinking here is an example of the sunken costs fallacy and he's getting bogged down in his sunk costs. What he wants here really is for everyone to get along so that he does not have to deal with this. He has to realise that his own inertia when it comes to his family hurts him as well as you. He is also mired in fear, obligation and guilt and he is still putting his own needs for feeling more comfortable ahead of anything else.

They sound unhinged. Answer the door next time and tell them to go away. They rely on you being polite. This is your home and your children so tell them.

If they refuse to leave call the police.

I had this with my family; expecting me to fix a relationship with my DM that I did not break and to make their lives more comfortable. Or to do more. Always on me. Nah.

If your DHs siblings are so bothered about their mental health they can spend more time with them!

@AttilaTheMeerkat we agreed that instead of multiple weekly visits, they could do one visit per month and it would be at a time when DC and I were already planning to be out.
So far we’ve gone from multiple visits with us home
To multiple visits with us not home
To now the plan is for just a monthly visit whilst we aren’t home and at a time to suit me more

He isn’t keen to rock the boat you’re right but by doing this he is, even though it’s not a ‘big’ step for some it is for him.
I understand your point and maybe I will have a chat with him about what his plan is, as in, is there a point where he can say he’s tried his best and stop. Or does he keep trying forever.

That analogy and Reddit post are spot on too with his siblings.

I keep trying to think what support would I want if I were him, this is a big deal to realise about your family and he’s only begun to see it very recently, it takes some people years. It’s only been about two weeks since I posted, so I want to be realistic in the changes I expect to see.

I think that you are right that NC is often a process not an event.

You are effectively NC and it seems your DCs are as well.

Well done for getting this far.

Who has the once a month visit to your house (minus DCs) been “agreed” with? I doubt the PIL have agreed to this. And I wonder what your DH is expecting - that if they behave for these visits he will then start nagging you to leave the DCs each month? And then it will be each week, everyday….and during that time they will continue to alienate, insult, sabotage and subjugate YOU as their mother by their subtle eroding comments and behaviours.

It’s really important that you keep educating yourself about dysfunctional and abusive families.

These people (intact the whole extended family system) are a threat to your own precious little family, your marriage and your position as a mother.

They will undermine your MH and drain your finite emotional energy and headspace which you need every ounce to raise your DCs.

You are miles ahead of your DH. You are much more emotionally informed, intelligent and resilient than your DH and your DCs need you to keep leading on this.

Look at his family as toxic - sick - with a contagion - they are all infected and keep reinfecting each - you can see this and are moving your DCs out of harms way.

They will never change. They are wired that way - so they will always behave the way that they do - they don’t understand normal relationships and will only become enraged the more you discuss it…..and so will you as you become more and more frustrated.

See them as a dangerous pack of animals to keep your marriage, family, children and MH away from.

Minimise exposure to them.

Maybe see the siblings as “uneducated” - and subconsciously working to preserve their own comfort. Have pity for them - but just close them down - time and time again.

So forget words with any of the ILs. Forget your DH being at the same place as you right now - you need to keep taking actions that are non negotiable. “No - that doesn’t work for me” to your DH, “Not going to discuss that” (and then change subject) with siblings.

Be resolute in your vision and keep taking actions to ensure that your DCs have a calm and peaceful home that is not dominated or infected by these people.

Need firm, calm, assertive, non emotional boundaries, actions and consequences for your DH.

Just keep taking actions - rather than doubting yourself - less talking etc - you will feel much more in control and less anxious.

Get a playbook ready so it is clear what is done in each situation. Then you can’t be blindsided. Draft this up with the help of rational people not your DH. You need to model good sound calm boundaries to your DH - and also that the world won’t fall in if you dare to state a preference of how you want to run your day.

It is likely to be tough in the early days - but being consistent with consequences and resolute in your own convictions - just weather the inevitable storm - let them kick up dust - it will settle and in time you will all be much happier.

If DH continues to see the ILs then IMHO there needs to be boundaries around who what where and when - something like - no DCs, not at your house, x times a month, no information to them about your lives and you don’t want any info coming back to pollute your relationship and trigger you. Also no “crisis” interruptions - everything is “will get back to you” - and then pass on to another sibling to deal with.

He needs to learn to manage them - because you have taken the brunt of it to date.

Thank you for your post @ESGdance
A lot to think about

I do expect to start feeling a bit like hes my own flying monkey, as things they say start to come back, ideas about when may be a good time for DC to see GPs maybe. And how there’s no harm in it.
And I’m a bit nervous of that.

I just keep thinking
Am I the abusive one? How do I know I’m not being abusive to DH by sabotaging his relationship with his family. Am I definitely right about them? I’m making DHs life hard by not wanting his family around, by refusing access to his children - which really if he wants to insist on he can.

And also why do I care if he talks to his parents about his life and then they judge us or tell other people our business and DH is somehow surprised everytime
It doesn’t actually effect me does it.

Is it really right to tell him subjects he’s not allowed to talk to his own family about. I wouldn’t stand for it if he said that to me.

It is concerning to me the messages your children receive:

I should give in to someone who displays bad behaviour.
If these people treat my Mom like this, they will me as well.
Why doesn't Daddy stop them?

This list is very long. Do you really want your children to receive such treatment?

Having been a victim of stalking, I would add gates outside. Put draperies on windows. Put an intercom to the gate.

But, firstly, I would show the police video of their bad behaviour and ask the police to visit them instructing them that they cannot come to your home nor call you. Tell DH you will have no contact with them. Period. If you need to get a restraining order, do it.

Until all this is done, buy headphones for the kids, put a movie on for them, give them snacks, and wait it out. Do not let them into your home.

This isn't healthy for your kids. This GP behaviour teaches them to be bullies or victims.

Within a short period of time, it WILL be better.