Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

What do men actually find attractive about women?

847 replies

kellyspark · 13/02/2022 18:10

After being divorced after a long marriage (adultery, his) I have started to cotton onto the fact that a lot of men like certain attributes about women that are quite surprising to me.
In a sporting hobby, some men have shown interest in me - flirting - but I wasn't ready for dating, so have treated them more like mates. This seems to have increased their attention, so I infer that they either like the chase, or they cannot figure out why I'm not flirting back and want to find out why I'm not.
Another thing seems to be that men don't automatically go for the most glamourous looking woman in a group. I'm still trying to figure that one out, but wondering if men worry about women being 'high maintenance' or maybe they think glam women are out of their league?

OP posts:
Anothergreatday · 19/02/2022 00:48

@greasyshoes

My first two examples were not of laws being broken. They are examples of the ways in which laws that exist, when correctly applied and adhered to disadvantage women,

As I explained in my previous comment, your issue lies with social factors, not rights.

DOES HR believe women should have the same rights DOES he believe women and men are equals DO you ?
greasyshoes · 19/02/2022 01:03

Once again he question WAS not about whether rights exist . It’s about whether hr believes they should and that women are equals

I know what the question was.

I was not trying to answer it.

AuntTwacky · 19/02/2022 01:06

Enormous melons

Anothergreatday · 19/02/2022 01:18

@greasyshoes

Once again he question WAS not about whether rights exist . It’s about whether hr believes they should and that women are equals

I know what the question was.

I was not trying to answer it.

No you’re trying to sidetrack it and gaslight by talking about laws which have nothing to do with opinions Women can technically have ‘legal ‘ rights whilst people can simultaneously believe they don’t have the right to behave the same way as men Why won’t you answer either ? , how very very strange , we now have two male posters , supposedly different people , both happy to bang on about a range of off topic stuff but refusing to answer as to whether women are equal to men and should have the same rights Hmm
Anothergreatday · 19/02/2022 01:20

@greasyshoes

Once again he question WAS not about whether rights exist . It’s about whether hr believes they should and that women are equals

I know what the question was.

I was not trying to answer it.

Or rather ‘ I was trying not to answer it !’
Lunar27 · 19/02/2022 07:51

I think it's a bit disingenuous to separate law from social or societal behaviour as they're inextricably linked aren't they?

For example, people are racist and society wants to change so introduces laws in an attempt to change societal behaviour. Same goes for hate speech etc etc. We were just on the cusp of introducing new laws to tackle misogyny as society clearly doesn't view women as equals.

Laws are reactive mostly, exactly because society is flawed in some way. Thus, IMO the law doesn't make people equal, society does. The law just mandates that people need to act in a certain way, not necessarily think, and that's the crux. People can think how they like and often do, despite whatever laws exist.

Anothergreatday · 19/02/2022 08:09

‘ Laws are reactive mostly, exactly because society is flawed in some way. Thus, IMO the law doesn't make people equal, society does. The law just mandates that people need to act in a certain way, not necessarily think, and that's the crux. People can think how they like and often do, despite whatever laws exist.’

Exactly , and the whole question was related to whether one of the posters felt women were equal to men . Not what the laws said .

Regardless of what any laws say about what womens ‘ legal rights are ‘ there are plenty of people who believe

  • men have a right for example to rule the house whilst women don’t ,
  • that men have the right to cheat whilst women don’t ,
  • that men have the ‘ right ‘ to relax after coming home from work instead of bathing and feeding the kids while women don’t etc etc

These are societal and personal beliefs about roles who who HAS the right ( morally , ethically ) to behave in particular ways .

…. and exactly as you say , when certain attitudes and behaviours become as problematic ( such as mysogynistic or discriminatory ones) laws are introduced to assist in modifying behaviour - doesn’t always work and often doesn’t change deeply entrenched personal views

Jonny1265 · 19/02/2022 13:53

@5128gap

There is a difference between sexual attraction and sexual acquisition, and for many men a woman is exactly like their car and clothes, a reflection of them and their status. Have you never heard of a trophy wife? Its a well recognised phenomena. Men may have their individual preferences but in the world outside of you and your friends, I can assure you that trends influence what men desire to acquire. In the 80s Steve and 'the boys' lusted after Samantha Fox who would not be seen as anywhere near as desirable to Jake and the lads in their 20s, who watched Kim kardashian's arse 'break the internet'. Perhaps you have reached an age where you have more confidence to follow your individual preferences, outside of the mainstream, or perhaps you haven't realised that they haven't developed in a vacuum; but I can assure there is much evidence that tastes in all areas are manipulated. The whole advertising industry is based on this.
What utter bollocks
Bellalastrasse · 19/02/2022 14:40

@Jonny1265

You don’t think that’s true for some men, Johnny?

I think it is.

5128gap · 19/02/2022 14:47

Thank you for your well considered rebuttal there Jonny. But I do think your inciteful commentary is better suited to a different form of debate. How about we give you a shout if the discussion moves back to big tits?

5128gap · 19/02/2022 14:49

Insightful. Though either works.

Jonny1265 · 19/02/2022 15:24

[quote Bellalastrasse]@Jonny1265

You don’t think that’s true for some men, Johnny?

I think it is.[/quote]
I think it could be true for some men but not all and not even the majority as is being made out to be the case.

Jonny1265 · 19/02/2022 15:28

@5128gap

Thank you for your well considered rebuttal there Jonny. But I do think your inciteful commentary is better suited to a different form of debate. How about we give you a shout if the discussion moves back to big tits?
Your generalisations are what I have taken exception to. The examples you give of Sam Fox and Kim Kardashian are not desirable to many men. I agree with you about manipulation and advertising but not everyone is swayed and more and more people are switched on the the tactics used. It's also hard to move someone away from innate preferences as it creates cognitive dissonance.
Lunar27 · 19/02/2022 16:01

Speaking of boobs and Sam Fox (why did you bring her up?!) I must confess to being smitten by her many photos that appeared on page 3, until it was rightly consigned to the bin.

Is that forgivable for a younger me, growing up when culture and media and I was less educated? I was a teen, fresh out of school, and worked at a garage at a time when mechanics would have pictures of naked women everywhere. Often fully naked straight out of a porno mag. In fact your bay would be a reflection of your taste in women and your status based on how 'hot' your choice of women was. Dare to put a 'minger' up and your status would drop (apologies for the choice of word). It's horrific to think that this was just 30 years ago and took ages for garages, workshops and even engineering shop floors in large companies to change.

Thankfully my time spent on the 'floor' was short and office work followed where there was rightly less tolerance for this kind of thing.

@5128gap. You mentioned trophy wives, I mentioned arm candy a few pages back. It's very much a real phenomenon and Trump is a prime example, as are a lot of celebrities and successful men. For us more regular folk it's still a thing though as a lot of men want to know they've chosen well. I don't think previous posters can claim that beautiful women have been idolised throughout history but then not want affirmation when they attract a 'hot' woman. You can't have it both ways.

Although I wonder if this affirmation also affects women?

greasyshoes · 19/02/2022 16:16

The examples you give of Sam Fox and Kim Kardashian are not desirable to many men.

Indeed, but what you have to remember is that many women never bother actually talking to men, and they just assume the ideal woman for a man is the models they see everyday on their TVs or in their gossip magazines.

Lunar27 · 19/02/2022 16:22

Of course Sam Fox wasn't desirable to many men. She was only one of the most popular page 3 models of all time Grin

SparklingStars10 · 19/02/2022 16:27

@Lunar27

Speaking of boobs and Sam Fox (why did you bring her up?!) I must confess to being smitten by her many photos that appeared on page 3, until it was rightly consigned to the bin.

Is that forgivable for a younger me, growing up when culture and media and I was less educated? I was a teen, fresh out of school, and worked at a garage at a time when mechanics would have pictures of naked women everywhere. Often fully naked straight out of a porno mag. In fact your bay would be a reflection of your taste in women and your status based on how 'hot' your choice of women was. Dare to put a 'minger' up and your status would drop (apologies for the choice of word). It's horrific to think that this was just 30 years ago and took ages for garages, workshops and even engineering shop floors in large companies to change.

Thankfully my time spent on the 'floor' was short and office work followed where there was rightly less tolerance for this kind of thing.

@5128gap. You mentioned trophy wives, I mentioned arm candy a few pages back. It's very much a real phenomenon and Trump is a prime example, as are a lot of celebrities and successful men. For us more regular folk it's still a thing though as a lot of men want to know they've chosen well. I don't think previous posters can claim that beautiful women have been idolised throughout history but then not want affirmation when they attract a 'hot' woman. You can't have it both ways.

Although I wonder if this affirmation also affects women?

This reminds me of an ex I dated when I was 18. His walls were literally covered in posters of women from FHM magazines. Looking back, I’m surprised I even got naked with him.
5128gap · 19/02/2022 16:29

Your experience really resonates with me Lunar, as a woman who worked in an office in that type of environment when I was young. I vividly recall the embarrassment of the 18 year old me having to take tea to 'the lads' and walk in on this type of talk. Once one of them was teasing another that he ought to get a girlfriend like me rather than the 'slapper' he was with. I didn't have the confidence to respond as I would now, but it was obvious that there was much teasing about this man's choice of partner. As for whether your participation is forgivable, in truth, I don't forgive those men, but i have more tolerance for the young ones some of whom were barely more than children. I understand the context of their behaviour, and no one can change the past, they can only move forward with a commitment to do better. I do wonder how many have.
As for whether the need for affirmation is present in women, I think it is, to an extent. Many women do want their friends to feel they have chosen well. I think the difference lies more in what chosen well looks like. I'd want my friends to think my DP was kind, decent, not sleazy in any way, good company. I couldn't care less if they think he's hot.
On another point, I'm interested as to whether you would still find Ms Fox as appealing now? Do you have an inate preference for that look, or have your tastes changed?

5128gap · 19/02/2022 16:40

@greasyshoes

The examples you give of Sam Fox and Kim Kardashian are not desirable to many men.

Indeed, but what you have to remember is that many women never bother actually talking to men, and they just assume the ideal woman for a man is the models they see everyday on their TVs or in their gossip magazines.

Those images don't put themselves out there. They're put out there by wealthy successful men who want to increase their wealth and success. I would imagine they know what they're doing, and have a wider grasp of what men like, and how to influence them, than one based on the rather limited pool of you and your mates.
greasyshoes · 19/02/2022 16:57

They're put out there by wealthy successful men who want to increase their wealth and success. I would imagine they know what they're doing, and have a wider grasp of what men like, and how to influence them, than one based on the rather limited pool of you and your mates.

Not sure about that. Seems like women are far more obsessed with female celebrities than men are. I know absolutely nothing about the Kardashians, and I refuse to learn anything about them.

Lunar27 · 19/02/2022 17:01

@5128gap. I will class myself in the same category, despite my never putting pictures on the wall. I entered the environment as an apprentice so never had a bay of my own and thankfully moved on quite quickly. I don't know if I would've if I'd stuck around and got my own bay but probably, due to peer pressure. I wonder what would happen if a man of that era didn't put up pictures. Probably picked on for being gay or something terrible. Looking back, the 90's were terribly backwards and you'll probably remember the attitude towards AIDS for instance. Horrendous.

Interesting regarding your views on female affirmation. I was just reading an article that generalised about male/female preferences and how men are much more status oriented. Therefore they often want the recognition. Generally women have other priorities.

As for Sam Fox, she's an attractive woman, despite the obvious features that made her famous. I'm not a boob man though and don't think body parts really come into it for me to be honest. I think if I met someone like her I'd be attracted but not because I like blonde busty women. It's all in the face for me and if the personality matches then the rest is what it is. Sure I'm conditioned to like a good figure and whilst there are a lot of women with amazing figures it's not important. I work out a lot but am no adonis Grin so would be stupid to place any kind of importance on it, other than it being good to look after yourself.

5128gap · 19/02/2022 17:06

@greasyshoes

They're put out there by wealthy successful men who want to increase their wealth and success. I would imagine they know what they're doing, and have a wider grasp of what men like, and how to influence them, than one based on the rather limited pool of you and your mates.

Not sure about that. Seems like women are far more obsessed with female celebrities than men are. I know absolutely nothing about the Kardashians, and I refuse to learn anything about them.

You're not sure about what? That its wealthy and successful men who control the media? That wealthy and successful men didn't sell the images of Samantha Fox and more recently KK? Or that those wealthy and successful men have somehow become wealthy and successful without a grasp on what sells and how to influence sales?
5128gap · 19/02/2022 17:22

[quote Lunar27]@5128gap. I will class myself in the same category, despite my never putting pictures on the wall. I entered the environment as an apprentice so never had a bay of my own and thankfully moved on quite quickly. I don't know if I would've if I'd stuck around and got my own bay but probably, due to peer pressure. I wonder what would happen if a man of that era didn't put up pictures. Probably picked on for being gay or something terrible. Looking back, the 90's were terribly backwards and you'll probably remember the attitude towards AIDS for instance. Horrendous.

Interesting regarding your views on female affirmation. I was just reading an article that generalised about male/female preferences and how men are much more status oriented. Therefore they often want the recognition. Generally women have other priorities.

As for Sam Fox, she's an attractive woman, despite the obvious features that made her famous. I'm not a boob man though and don't think body parts really come into it for me to be honest. I think if I met someone like her I'd be attracted but not because I like blonde busty women. It's all in the face for me and if the personality matches then the rest is what it is. Sure I'm conditioned to like a good figure and whilst there are a lot of women with amazing figures it's not important. I work out a lot but am no adonis Grin so would be stupid to place any kind of importance on it, other than it being good to look after yourself.[/quote]
Thanks for your response. Its really interesting reading. And I agree with your point about how men who didn't participate would have likely been treated. In my workplace anything other than the most ostentatious displays of toxic masculinity resulted in 'accusations' of being gay, and bullying, particularly of the teen boys by the older men. Horrible times.

Lunar27 · 19/02/2022 17:31

@5128gap. For what it's worth, I'm sorry about your earliest workplace experiences. It's funny (not haha funny) how were probably similar ages and went out into the world of work but depending on our sex, had hugely different experiences.

I just don't think that I had the slightest idea of the impact this kind of stupid male BS had and am sure many didn't care in the least bit. I'm no saint but it seems to be sinking in slowly.

greasyshoes · 19/02/2022 18:06

You're not sure about what? That its wealthy and successful men who control the media? That wealthy and successful men didn't sell the images of Samantha Fox and more recently KK? Or that those wealthy and successful men have somehow become wealthy and successful without a grasp on what sells and how to influence sales?

None of the above. I took issue with the implication that it's men being influenced, as below.

"and have a wider grasp of what men like, and how to influence them"

I've only ever seen women binging on Kardashian trash, not men.