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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My wife doesn't want kids

195 replies

KalebGalvin · 07/02/2022 23:31

Hi, thanks for reading my post, any help would be greatly appreciated as I am going through a bit of hell right now and I need to vent and get some other opinions. I figured mumsnet would be a good place to get some advice from a community I wouldn't normally be a part of.

So, please bear with me, this is quite a story.

So, I have been with my wife for 16/17 years, only married for 4, but dated ever since we were teenagers. We are very much in love, I love her so very much, our friends and family were so happy to see us get married, that when we kissed, the entire church erupted in cheers. No things aren't perfect, but no more imperfect than any other relationship and better than most in my opinion.

BUT

In the lead up to our wedding, maybe a week or so before, she tells me she is worried she won't be able to give me a family, I figure it is just cold feet right? We have spoken about kids for years, I made it VERY VERY clear how I felt, I wanted a family, it has always been in my mind. She knew this, so her coming up with that on the eve of our wedding looked like cold feet.

So we got married, it was great, then on the honeymoon, she decided to tell me that she doesn't think she wants kids. I was blown away. Here we are having the time of our life, and she drops that bombshell. We just blew a lot of money getting married, we had everything going for us, and boom, she drops the big news.

But, she has always told me she was on board with it, and she was in her 20s and neither of us was particularly mature, so I said that we aren't wanting kids RIGHT NOW, and she seems to have changed her mind out of the blue. So I kept calm, I love this woman, I decided, let's go see a counselor, get some therapy both as couples and separately. Let's get some books and get educated. She told me she didn't want to get pregnant and do the whole child birth thing. So I figured, let's educate ourselves, put a pin in this and talk about it in the future. But for now, let's get educated on it first.

Fast forward 2 years, she comes to me and says that she really doesnt think she can have a baby. The pregnancy and birthing does not appeal to her, and seems terrifying and painful. But here is the kicker right now, she has decided FOR BOTH OF US that she is NOT having children biologically. I will address this more later, but she believes it is her body and she decides what happens to it, and she pretty much informed me she was not going to allow her body to get pregnant.

It really kicked off a bit here, I went a bit mad. Because she kept saying 'I know you would make an amazing dad, but I just can't do it'. We had a huge argument (which we have only ever had maybe 3 in the entire time we knew each other). I said I needed some time to think so I left the house, and I called her mother and let her know we had a bust up and that she may want to check in on her daughter (as they live close by). I was also going through some serious depression and was having some suicidal thoughts before she told me this, so I wasnt in the best place to hear this.

So her mum got involved a little bit here as she tried to support her daughter. I was a bit damn surprised by this in a way because she has had 3 kids of her own, and my wife's siblings have both had 1 or two kids themselves. Their family revolves around kids, so when my mother in law tried to tell me that I was being silly and that I didn't really know what I was talking about wanting kids, I was somewhat infuriated at the hypocrisy. This is exacerbated by the fact that until that very phone call, my wife has avoided telling anybody in her family that she felt this way about kids as each time the subject came up they all told her she would change her mind and asked when she was going to have her first kid. So my mother in law going the full 180 caught me off guard and it is hard to argue with somebody who is being a total hypocrite.

But we spoke afterwards and I said to my wife I don't care about biology. I asked if it was just the birth and pregnancy she couldn't do and whether she would be ok with adopting. She said yes, she could be open to that but that she wasn't totally onboard with it, but removing the pregnancy from the table really helped her process it and changed her views a lot.

So we put a pin in it again, I felt like this was progress. 6 months down the line she said one evening when we were on the sofa, that she really appreciated my being open to adoption and that she is kind of coming round. I saw this as a great sign.

Then give it another 6 months to a year, which brings us to last week. Now I just got a new job, this is not related, other than to say we have more money than we have ever had, and after my professional life being in the drain for 7 years, things are looking very promising for me. And I think maybe this new money and future prospects will assuage her fears about the financial side of kids. But she totally blindsided me, because last week, out of the blue she told me she wants to get sterilized. I was a bit stunned so I can't remember the reason, but essentially she wants to stop taking birth control pills, and even with the pills she doesn't enjoy sex at all as all she can think about is the danger of getting pregnant.

This has seriously messed with my mind. The last time we spoke she was on the fence about kids, but she has now gone full hard reverse and gone as deep as possible into the no child territory. And though I have not looked into this much, I am pretty sure that being voluntarily sterilized with no medical reason is a massive red flag if you try to adopt later on. So not only is this a hard no to getting pregnant, it is also putting adoption at real risk too.

But then she landed the master stroke of this statement. I asked her how she feels about adoption now, and she said she would do it, but only because I wanted to. AS IF ADOPTING A KID WAS LIKE BUYING A CAT. This scared me to death because with that one statement she admitted that she doesn't want kids in any capacity, but also that she would be willing to adopt a kid (lets ignore the issue of the difficulties of adopting for the moment) just to make me happy. That is so very irresponsible and just wrong.

She once again decided to get sterilized on her own, she was not asking my permission, merely asking what I thought about it, though the way she worded it she was clearly doing it out of courtesy, not because she feels I should have a say in it.

(Let's address this before it goes any further. I will fight to defend anybody's right to say what is done with their own body. Even though i want kids, if my wife got accidentally pregnant, I would not even think of stopping her getting an abortion if that was her wish, because it was not planned and it is her body. But in a marriage, certain things affect both parties. In deciding not to get pregnant, she has made that decision for me too, without consulting or even asking me really. The same goes with getting sterilized. I am not saying I should have to give her my permission to do things with her own body, but when it affects me too, I should at least be considered. I wouldn't get a vasectomy without asking her, I wouldn't get a massive face tattoo without asking her, because it affects her too)

I was totally shocked by this. She has basically told me that she has now made her mind up and is willing to permanently make steps to stop getting pregnant. Not only this, she has in my opinion quite possibly sabotaged the idea of adopting too, and I can't help but think this was deliberate.

What really confused me though, is that after she said this to me, we had an awkward evening. The days afterwards she has been being overly affectionate, as if nothing happened, and then she seemed to be randomly snappy and sarcastic at other times. I have been walking around in a daze like I have shellshock. I can hardly feel anything right now. And I don't care about anything because I have been in fight or flight mode since we had the talk. I have no idea what is going to happen, I alternate between not eating, and stress eating compulsively.

I tend to put other people before me, it is just something I do. In the case of my relationship I usually let my wife get her way with most things as my goal was to make her happy. I was not a pushover by any means, but I tried my best to make her happy. This entire time with this issue I have tried to be understanding, I spent a long time questioning if I could live without kids. But the moment she made this decision for us, and took having kids off the table, it just made me realize how much I do want them.

I have two nephews and two nieces, whom I love very much. I tried to pretend I could be happy with just them, but I only have to look at my two brothers in law with their kids to know I won’t be. Those kids love me, I am very good with them, but to them I am just their uncle, they love me but they don’t seem me but once a year. So we don’t get much time together. And every time I see how those kids are with their dads, I ask ‘why can’t I have that?’ and I wonder what is so bad about that that my wife will go so far as to get sterilized to prevent it.

My wife believes I have accepted her decision about sterilization, I have not. But I do not believe it to be in my power to forbid her anything. And in truth I don’t care about the sterilization itself, more so that I care what it means. It means she has made her mind up, she is no longer saying she doesn't ‘think’ she wants kids, she may as well have signed a contract saying she does not want, will not want children and is willing to permanently remove tha from the realm of possibility.

And in giving me her response of an absolute no, she essentially gave me an ultimatum. I didn’t respond properly to her question because I believe once we pull the pin on that discussion, there will be no controlling its momentum, and I want to know how I feel when I broach this subject.

I understand how she feels, at least I think I am. I try to understand her logic, kids are expensive, messy, they disrupt your life and in truth if you had to sign a document stating what you were getting vs what you would have to forfeit, it makes no sense. But on the other hand I just feel strongly that I want to be a parent. I want to teach my kids how to be adults, and show them the world. I never had a good relationship with my dad, but my grandad raised me in all the ways that matter, and I have always wanted to be looked at the same way I looked at him, the same way my nephews look at their dads. I think I would be a great dad (admittedly many do).

So even though my instinct is to give my wife her own way, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just go along with not having kids. I feel like I would resent it more and more each day.

This is not to mention that she lied to me too. When she told me on the honeymoon that she changed her mind, I thought it was a recent development, as if something had scared her. But when she brought it up last week, she said she always knew from a young age she didn’t want to be a mother.

So whether she lied to me out of fear of losing me (I think this is most likely) or she lied to trick me, the end result is the same. We shouldn’t be in this situation, I feel tricked, like this woman who I hold above all else, and I KNOW she has never lied to me about anything else, just happened to keep this secret which rocks the foundations of our entire relationship.

I WANT to say this is not fair, this is all your fault and just leave and try to find somebody else. But I LOVE my wife, faults and all. And I WANT her to be the mother of my children.

I want to rage, but I just feel sad. I feel like there is no right answer. If I stay I will be sad and resentful. If I go I will lose my wife and best friend of 17 years.

I caused none of this, she caused this whole thing by not being honest. And it almost seems as if she doesn’t understand what is at stake. She has not behaved very well about this whole issue and yet I am the one struggling with so much guilt. I don’t want to lose her, but I don’t believe it is right of her to ask me to give up on wanting my own family either.

I just don’t know what to do. I mean I don’t want to hurt her, but in a very real way she has hurt me deeply, and I am going to be hurt no matter what I do. I am almost 35, time is running out if I am to meet anybody else, but at the same time, I don’t want anybody.
Sorry I know this is a meandering mess of a story. But it is representative of my mind right now. I am glad I am not suffering from depression and the suicidal ideation anymore, that would make it even harder to think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time.
Have any of you been through something like this? Did you choose to leave or stay? Do you regret your choice?

I would love to hear your thoughts, because I am just ruminating on this like crazy. My therapist would be really angry at me for thinking about this so much. I am just going round in circles.

OP posts:
Antsgomarching · 08/02/2022 13:03

I think its pretty clear she didn’t want kids yet you seem to be in a permanent state of shock.

loislovesstewie · 08/02/2022 13:28

Well the conversation should have gone like this;
Person a) I want to have kids at some point in the future.

Person b) I don't. (and I would say if you are unsure then say this because being unsure gives hope)
Person a) OK. I think we call it a day.
But there does seem, if the OP has stated things correctly that the woman hasn't actually said it forcefully enough or plainly enough. This is not a 'I might change my mind' scenario, is it?

I agree no-one should have kids to please another, and it really is something that is life changing so both need to be in agreement.
FWIW I do know several couples where they were not in agreement and none of the relationships ended well.

Fluenty · 08/02/2022 13:40

Op: Hey guys, you should be ashamed
My wife told my her wishes over and over again and I ignored it
Now loads of you are saying the same things to me
It’s all you though
Non of it was me
She lied
You’ve all misunderstood
You’re all making my words out to be something they’re not
It’s you all
..And her
…and probably some other people

But definitely, Definitely, Not me

HootOwl · 08/02/2022 13:49

@MayBMaybenot

I was the same as your wife except that I was totally honest with my husband about my feelings from the start of our relationship. The thought of pregnancy and child birth were totally horrendous to me and I just could not see myself going through that. We agreed on the matter, married and had a good life until it became clear that he had changed his mind.

By that time I had had a sterilisation. We split up and both moved on amicably. Me to eventually marry my current DH, and him to marry his now wife.

Then she got pregnant and gave him a beautiful daughter. He called me to tell me he had become a dad and how happy he was ..... not trying to be hurtful, but just to let me know how he was.

I remember how the news hit me and still to this day (his daughter is now in her 20's) the memory makes me cry. I remember the pain, the hurt, the rejection, the sadness, the loss. I remember lying on my bed making a noise which wasn't crying, wasn't screaming. It was more like the howl of a wounded animal. I remember the numbness which followed and lasted for weeks, and the fact that I don't think I will ever get over it.

I so sincerely hope your wife does not go through this when the reality of her decision hits her as it did me. If you move on and find someone who would be happy to be the mother of your children - and I hope you do - she may realise, too late, that decisions such as this have lasting consequences. But it's her decision and her life.

I am so sorry, this sounds really traumatic. What was the realisation, regret that you would have wanted children after all? Or sadness that this issue had ended your marriage? Or something else?
Mollysocks · 08/02/2022 14:02

@Antsgomarching

I think its pretty clear she didn’t want kids yet you seem to be in a permanent state of shock.
The shock is from:
  1. Trying to comprehend the audacity of his wife to have her own opinions and on her body too (the gall!)
  2. Coming to terms with the fact his wife couldn’t be bullied into his way of thinking, despite obviously being a god of a man (😏) that no woman could resist procreating with and giving in to. (see 1.)

🤣

Mollysocks · 08/02/2022 14:04

@Fluenty

Op: Hey guys, you should be ashamed My wife told my her wishes over and over again and I ignored it Now loads of you are saying the same things to me It’s all you though Non of it was me She lied You’ve all misunderstood You’re all making my words out to be something they’re not It’s you all ..And her …and probably some other people

But definitely, Definitely, Not me

Grin
ButterMeTimbers · 08/02/2022 14:17

I think it perfectly possible to not be totally sure you don't want children until you are in your 30s. Up until then it's just some hypothetical thing that may happen one day in the future (assuming it hasn't already). By mid 30s it's close enough to be real and you are old enough to know your opinions are real.

No one should be committed forever to an opinion they held when they are in their teens/twenties. Everyone is allowed to change their minds.

In this case, it sounds like she tried to be honest as her mind was changing but you just didn't want to hear it.

Thewindwhispers · 08/02/2022 14:37

I’m so very sorry OP. This is such a sad story (for both of you). If she went into marriage knowing that you wanted children and she didn’t, then that’s awful, but in a weird way it kind of doesn’t matter who did what in the past. The situation now is that you understand how wonderful children are, and feel more than ready to be a father, and she just doesn’t want them. Adopting with her in this frame of mind would be a terrible idea, as she sounds like she’d be incapable of loving and appreciating the child (who would, like all adopted children, be very challenging). Her behaviour on this hasn’t been normal or reasonable and she would not make a good mother.

It’s difficult to see how your marriage can recover from this. I love my husband and we’ve been together for decades, but if I had to choose between my husband and my child, it’d be my child in an instant.

I’d suggest a trial separation, and perhaps a different therapist if you really feel yours would be angry at you for your pain. You’ve been placed in a horrible situation through no fault of your own, and the way forward is not clear: of course you are going round in circles, who wouldn’t be?

The only silver lining is that you are plenty young enough to meet someone else and have children of your own. Some men have their first child at fifty, I know two who did.

My hope for you is that you both have some time apart, come to recognise that just because you had a wonderful relationship with her in the past doesn’t mean you should stay together forever if you’re incapable of fulfilling each other’s dreams: you’ll never be truly happy together. I hope you take a couple of years to recover from this and then fall in love with a kind and slightly younger lady who is eager to be a mother. There are many of them!

Wildlingbobble · 08/02/2022 14:40

Exactly @ButterMeTimbers. I don’t have any children & I’m late 20’s. I was absolutely positive I wanted them from being 16/17 until about 24. Now my mind is definitely on the turn & honestly I couldn’t tell you which way it’ll go.

I imagine when I reach my 30’s the scale will probably tip either way, given that I’ll become aware of my biological clock - it won’t just be an abstract idea to deal with in the future, but something real.

So no one can assume OPs wife was deliberately misleading at all

GrendelsGrandma · 08/02/2022 16:30

@Fluenty

Op: Hey guys, you should be ashamed My wife told my her wishes over and over again and I ignored it Now loads of you are saying the same things to me It’s all you though Non of it was me She lied You’ve all misunderstood You’re all making my words out to be something they’re not It’s you all ..And her …and probably some other people

But definitely, Definitely, Not me

Smile OP: I came on here to ask a bunch of mothers to tell me I'm right because all women are destined to be mothers It's what you're for I legally annexed her uterus when we got married then she goes and padlocks it She should be ashamed and so should you, in fact all of womankind conspires against me I'm off to my shed, you bitches
HermioneWeasley · 08/02/2022 19:07

Op’s second post confirms what I suspected after the first - he’s a misogynist with a Madonna/whore complex.

Please leave your poor wife.

Ps- I reckon it’s 50/50 that after they split up she does decide to have kids with someone who’s not controlling and doesn’t have 1950s views about women and motherhood.

nadgersbadgers · 08/02/2022 19:13

Leave

aloris · 08/02/2022 19:18

Your post is very long so it's hard to tease out exactly what happened here. It sounds like you made your position known, early and clearly, that you wanted children. That is fine. What is less clear is whether your wife (a) knew her own position on having children, (b) informed you of her position when you were deciding whether to get married and (c) did you listen to her or not.

You say that she expressed that she was not sure she wanted children a couple of weeks before the wedding, and on the honeymoon. Technically, yes, she did disclose her hesitance about children before the wedding. You could have canceled the wedding. But, if that's the first time she expressed hesitance, that is leaving it pretty darn late and I don't think that was fair to you. On the honeymoon is too late. You're already married! It does make me wonder if she was internally aware of her feelings before you got engaged but, maybe she didn't want to lose the relationship so left telling you late enough that she could plausibly say, "I didn't know I felt that way until two weeks before the wedding." I suppose it's also possible she had no idea she felt that way until shortly before the wedding when the reality that "having children" might be, not a decade away but a few months away. But you also say she eventually said that she had always known she didn't want children so that would suggest that for some reason she kept this feeling a secret from you.

Your behavior now that you are married and trying to deal with this is a bit confusing. On the one hand, you say that "I will fight to defend anybody's right to say what is done with their own body." On the other hand, you also say, "She told me she didn't want to get pregnant and do the whole child birth thing. So I figured, let's educate ourselves, put a pin in this and talk about it in the future." So when she told you she didn't want to do this, instead of just accepting it as her statement, you took it almost as a suggestion that could be modified by her educating herself. I understand that it must have been shocking to have this bomb dropped on you on your honeymoon, given that you were already married, but it does sound a bit like your approach to her is that if she says something you don't agree with, you just try to wait it out until she agrees.

I think the correct thing to have done when she said this on the honeymoon, would have been to say, I accept your right to decide this but I feel like you were not fully truthful with me when we were deciding to marry, and I need to re-evaluate whether to remain in this marriage.

It does sound like when she expressed to her family members that she did not want children, that they dismissed what she said. Their failure to accept her desire may have contributed to her feeling that it was not ok to tell you that she would not be open to children. But I think you should also evaluate whether she has been telling you this directly, earlier in your relationship, and maybe you just weren't listening.

pollygartertidywife · 08/02/2022 20:51

KalebGalvin I am also horrified by some of the responses. Nothing is taken at face value on here especially if male poster.

The usual suspects are the professionally offended looking for some oppressive male behaviour. It's annoying and not remotely helpful.

I'll take your question as it's asked.
I believe you love your wife very much or this wouldn't be such a dilemma for you.
Sadly there is no other option for you. You need to find a woman who wants children.

It sounds to me that your wife has an actual fear of pregnancy and giving birth. That's a real thing. And much easier to 'not want kids' . Perhaps not, not wanting kids is an equally valid and real life choice - but something you said in your first post made it sound like Tokophobia.. not that it makes it any easier. It's a pretty hard boiled phobia to overcome.

girafferafferaffe · 08/02/2022 20:59

Educating her? Ie trying to make her change her mind? Assuming her mum would also attempt to pressure her as well.

You can't make her have children. She told you she didn't want to.

User48751490 · 08/02/2022 21:05

Leave, and meet someone else.

MrsDrSpencerReid · 08/02/2022 21:23

Well. Haven’t we been told Grin

HootOwl · 09/02/2022 00:48

@pollygartertidywife

KalebGalvin I am also horrified by some of the responses. Nothing is taken at face value on here especially if male poster.

The usual suspects are the professionally offended looking for some oppressive male behaviour. It's annoying and not remotely helpful.

I'll take your question as it's asked.
I believe you love your wife very much or this wouldn't be such a dilemma for you.
Sadly there is no other option for you. You need to find a woman who wants children.

It sounds to me that your wife has an actual fear of pregnancy and giving birth. That's a real thing. And much easier to 'not want kids' . Perhaps not, not wanting kids is an equally valid and real life choice - but something you said in your first post made it sound like Tokophobia.. not that it makes it any easier. It's a pretty hard boiled phobia to overcome.

It could be. But there is nothing in the OP's posts saying anything positive in terms of his wife wanting children: wanting to be a mother, to be a parent, to raise children and play with them, teach them stuff, show them things, watch them grow, nurture them to adulthood etc. If it was tomophobia stopping her having children (but she wanted them, just not pregnancy/ birth) I think these conversations would have been very different. Presumably she'd be conflicted, be talking to her husband about that (unless he is a selfish, controlling prick who is impossible to have an open discussion with). Presumably she'd have been very keen on exploring adoption that would have bypassed the tokophobia and let her experience the parts of becoming a parent that weren't terrifying for her.

It doesn't stack up really. Not saying she doesn't have tokophobia. No way for us to know. But it certainly wouldn't explain this situation unless she also really doesn't want children... as she told her husband many times.

Wavypurple · 09/02/2022 03:05

You sound really scary and I’m really glad you’re not my husband.

Clearly you just are not a good match. I don’t know why you’ve waited around for 17 years for her to change her mind when she’s made it clear she never will.

C8H10N4O2 · 09/02/2022 08:26

However the thread has been hijacked by what I can only describe as a mob

Sorry hun, were we not dainty, compliant and ladylike enough for you?

Or did we just not supply the required screenshots of a women centred forum blaming a woman for not wanting children?

Assuming this is real, the woman in the story has been in this relationship since teen years surrounded by the weight of expectations of their church community as well as the OP. She still tried to express her views on children before the wedding - the OP could have hit the pause button at that point in time but again chose to override what she said with his own assumptions citing applause in the church as validation. This is not someone who listens to women.

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