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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My wife doesn't want kids

195 replies

KalebGalvin · 07/02/2022 23:31

Hi, thanks for reading my post, any help would be greatly appreciated as I am going through a bit of hell right now and I need to vent and get some other opinions. I figured mumsnet would be a good place to get some advice from a community I wouldn't normally be a part of.

So, please bear with me, this is quite a story.

So, I have been with my wife for 16/17 years, only married for 4, but dated ever since we were teenagers. We are very much in love, I love her so very much, our friends and family were so happy to see us get married, that when we kissed, the entire church erupted in cheers. No things aren't perfect, but no more imperfect than any other relationship and better than most in my opinion.

BUT

In the lead up to our wedding, maybe a week or so before, she tells me she is worried she won't be able to give me a family, I figure it is just cold feet right? We have spoken about kids for years, I made it VERY VERY clear how I felt, I wanted a family, it has always been in my mind. She knew this, so her coming up with that on the eve of our wedding looked like cold feet.

So we got married, it was great, then on the honeymoon, she decided to tell me that she doesn't think she wants kids. I was blown away. Here we are having the time of our life, and she drops that bombshell. We just blew a lot of money getting married, we had everything going for us, and boom, she drops the big news.

But, she has always told me she was on board with it, and she was in her 20s and neither of us was particularly mature, so I said that we aren't wanting kids RIGHT NOW, and she seems to have changed her mind out of the blue. So I kept calm, I love this woman, I decided, let's go see a counselor, get some therapy both as couples and separately. Let's get some books and get educated. She told me she didn't want to get pregnant and do the whole child birth thing. So I figured, let's educate ourselves, put a pin in this and talk about it in the future. But for now, let's get educated on it first.

Fast forward 2 years, she comes to me and says that she really doesnt think she can have a baby. The pregnancy and birthing does not appeal to her, and seems terrifying and painful. But here is the kicker right now, she has decided FOR BOTH OF US that she is NOT having children biologically. I will address this more later, but she believes it is her body and she decides what happens to it, and she pretty much informed me she was not going to allow her body to get pregnant.

It really kicked off a bit here, I went a bit mad. Because she kept saying 'I know you would make an amazing dad, but I just can't do it'. We had a huge argument (which we have only ever had maybe 3 in the entire time we knew each other). I said I needed some time to think so I left the house, and I called her mother and let her know we had a bust up and that she may want to check in on her daughter (as they live close by). I was also going through some serious depression and was having some suicidal thoughts before she told me this, so I wasnt in the best place to hear this.

So her mum got involved a little bit here as she tried to support her daughter. I was a bit damn surprised by this in a way because she has had 3 kids of her own, and my wife's siblings have both had 1 or two kids themselves. Their family revolves around kids, so when my mother in law tried to tell me that I was being silly and that I didn't really know what I was talking about wanting kids, I was somewhat infuriated at the hypocrisy. This is exacerbated by the fact that until that very phone call, my wife has avoided telling anybody in her family that she felt this way about kids as each time the subject came up they all told her she would change her mind and asked when she was going to have her first kid. So my mother in law going the full 180 caught me off guard and it is hard to argue with somebody who is being a total hypocrite.

But we spoke afterwards and I said to my wife I don't care about biology. I asked if it was just the birth and pregnancy she couldn't do and whether she would be ok with adopting. She said yes, she could be open to that but that she wasn't totally onboard with it, but removing the pregnancy from the table really helped her process it and changed her views a lot.

So we put a pin in it again, I felt like this was progress. 6 months down the line she said one evening when we were on the sofa, that she really appreciated my being open to adoption and that she is kind of coming round. I saw this as a great sign.

Then give it another 6 months to a year, which brings us to last week. Now I just got a new job, this is not related, other than to say we have more money than we have ever had, and after my professional life being in the drain for 7 years, things are looking very promising for me. And I think maybe this new money and future prospects will assuage her fears about the financial side of kids. But she totally blindsided me, because last week, out of the blue she told me she wants to get sterilized. I was a bit stunned so I can't remember the reason, but essentially she wants to stop taking birth control pills, and even with the pills she doesn't enjoy sex at all as all she can think about is the danger of getting pregnant.

This has seriously messed with my mind. The last time we spoke she was on the fence about kids, but she has now gone full hard reverse and gone as deep as possible into the no child territory. And though I have not looked into this much, I am pretty sure that being voluntarily sterilized with no medical reason is a massive red flag if you try to adopt later on. So not only is this a hard no to getting pregnant, it is also putting adoption at real risk too.

But then she landed the master stroke of this statement. I asked her how she feels about adoption now, and she said she would do it, but only because I wanted to. AS IF ADOPTING A KID WAS LIKE BUYING A CAT. This scared me to death because with that one statement she admitted that she doesn't want kids in any capacity, but also that she would be willing to adopt a kid (lets ignore the issue of the difficulties of adopting for the moment) just to make me happy. That is so very irresponsible and just wrong.

She once again decided to get sterilized on her own, she was not asking my permission, merely asking what I thought about it, though the way she worded it she was clearly doing it out of courtesy, not because she feels I should have a say in it.

(Let's address this before it goes any further. I will fight to defend anybody's right to say what is done with their own body. Even though i want kids, if my wife got accidentally pregnant, I would not even think of stopping her getting an abortion if that was her wish, because it was not planned and it is her body. But in a marriage, certain things affect both parties. In deciding not to get pregnant, she has made that decision for me too, without consulting or even asking me really. The same goes with getting sterilized. I am not saying I should have to give her my permission to do things with her own body, but when it affects me too, I should at least be considered. I wouldn't get a vasectomy without asking her, I wouldn't get a massive face tattoo without asking her, because it affects her too)

I was totally shocked by this. She has basically told me that she has now made her mind up and is willing to permanently make steps to stop getting pregnant. Not only this, she has in my opinion quite possibly sabotaged the idea of adopting too, and I can't help but think this was deliberate.

What really confused me though, is that after she said this to me, we had an awkward evening. The days afterwards she has been being overly affectionate, as if nothing happened, and then she seemed to be randomly snappy and sarcastic at other times. I have been walking around in a daze like I have shellshock. I can hardly feel anything right now. And I don't care about anything because I have been in fight or flight mode since we had the talk. I have no idea what is going to happen, I alternate between not eating, and stress eating compulsively.

I tend to put other people before me, it is just something I do. In the case of my relationship I usually let my wife get her way with most things as my goal was to make her happy. I was not a pushover by any means, but I tried my best to make her happy. This entire time with this issue I have tried to be understanding, I spent a long time questioning if I could live without kids. But the moment she made this decision for us, and took having kids off the table, it just made me realize how much I do want them.

I have two nephews and two nieces, whom I love very much. I tried to pretend I could be happy with just them, but I only have to look at my two brothers in law with their kids to know I won’t be. Those kids love me, I am very good with them, but to them I am just their uncle, they love me but they don’t seem me but once a year. So we don’t get much time together. And every time I see how those kids are with their dads, I ask ‘why can’t I have that?’ and I wonder what is so bad about that that my wife will go so far as to get sterilized to prevent it.

My wife believes I have accepted her decision about sterilization, I have not. But I do not believe it to be in my power to forbid her anything. And in truth I don’t care about the sterilization itself, more so that I care what it means. It means she has made her mind up, she is no longer saying she doesn't ‘think’ she wants kids, she may as well have signed a contract saying she does not want, will not want children and is willing to permanently remove tha from the realm of possibility.

And in giving me her response of an absolute no, she essentially gave me an ultimatum. I didn’t respond properly to her question because I believe once we pull the pin on that discussion, there will be no controlling its momentum, and I want to know how I feel when I broach this subject.

I understand how she feels, at least I think I am. I try to understand her logic, kids are expensive, messy, they disrupt your life and in truth if you had to sign a document stating what you were getting vs what you would have to forfeit, it makes no sense. But on the other hand I just feel strongly that I want to be a parent. I want to teach my kids how to be adults, and show them the world. I never had a good relationship with my dad, but my grandad raised me in all the ways that matter, and I have always wanted to be looked at the same way I looked at him, the same way my nephews look at their dads. I think I would be a great dad (admittedly many do).

So even though my instinct is to give my wife her own way, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just go along with not having kids. I feel like I would resent it more and more each day.

This is not to mention that she lied to me too. When she told me on the honeymoon that she changed her mind, I thought it was a recent development, as if something had scared her. But when she brought it up last week, she said she always knew from a young age she didn’t want to be a mother.

So whether she lied to me out of fear of losing me (I think this is most likely) or she lied to trick me, the end result is the same. We shouldn’t be in this situation, I feel tricked, like this woman who I hold above all else, and I KNOW she has never lied to me about anything else, just happened to keep this secret which rocks the foundations of our entire relationship.

I WANT to say this is not fair, this is all your fault and just leave and try to find somebody else. But I LOVE my wife, faults and all. And I WANT her to be the mother of my children.

I want to rage, but I just feel sad. I feel like there is no right answer. If I stay I will be sad and resentful. If I go I will lose my wife and best friend of 17 years.

I caused none of this, she caused this whole thing by not being honest. And it almost seems as if she doesn’t understand what is at stake. She has not behaved very well about this whole issue and yet I am the one struggling with so much guilt. I don’t want to lose her, but I don’t believe it is right of her to ask me to give up on wanting my own family either.

I just don’t know what to do. I mean I don’t want to hurt her, but in a very real way she has hurt me deeply, and I am going to be hurt no matter what I do. I am almost 35, time is running out if I am to meet anybody else, but at the same time, I don’t want anybody.
Sorry I know this is a meandering mess of a story. But it is representative of my mind right now. I am glad I am not suffering from depression and the suicidal ideation anymore, that would make it even harder to think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time.
Have any of you been through something like this? Did you choose to leave or stay? Do you regret your choice?

I would love to hear your thoughts, because I am just ruminating on this like crazy. My therapist would be really angry at me for thinking about this so much. I am just going round in circles.

OP posts:
Velvian · 08/02/2022 09:38

@Suzi888, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the OP. I hope she does find the strength to leave. This man is pissed off that he has not been able to erode his wife's boundary on this and wants to remove her bodily autonomy. He even enlisted her mum. She most definitely should leave.

How old were you both when you got together @KalebGalvin?

BuritoCat · 08/02/2022 09:39

She doesn't want children. You can't force her.

Accept it and either stay with her or leave her and find someone who does want kids. Your attitude is appalling, trying to guilt trip and that it's not fair.

billy1966 · 08/02/2022 09:41

Your relationship is over.

Accept it.

She doesn't want children.

Accept it.

Mollysocks · 08/02/2022 09:43

[quote Velvian]@Suzi888, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the OP. I hope she does find the strength to leave. This man is pissed off that he has not been able to erode his wife's boundary on this and wants to remove her bodily autonomy. He even enlisted her mum. She most definitely should leave.

How old were you both when you got together @KalebGalvin?[/quote]
This! Basically what I said but more eloquent and succinct Smile

C8H10N4O2 · 08/02/2022 10:01

@rainbowdashsneeze

You're getting a hard time here tbh. Please look at the threads where genders are reversed and you will get some good advise. Telling you so close to the wedding and framing as a not sure is totally unforgivable in my opinion. The only thing you can do moving forward is leave abs meet a woman who wants to start a family with you and I can assure you there will be plenty out there. I really wish you luck for the future.
This is not a situation that can truly be compared between the sexes. The impacts and implications of having a child or not having a child are completely different for men and for women.

The only parallel is that neither partner can or should require a child of the other but frankly that is something to discuss before you commit to a life together. The choice is stay with childfree partner and don't have children or leave them and seek a partner who does want children.

C8H10N4O2 · 08/02/2022 10:03

@Mollysocks

Christ, I didn’t read your whole post OP because I bailed when I read phrases ‘give me children’ and ‘she believes it’s her body’ but give me strength, I’ve just read it all and I honestly think you are just too immature to be a father.

I honestly think you need educating or therapy. Not sure which yet. I could spend hours analysing your words, they tell me a lot.

But I LOVE my wife, faults and all. And I WANT her to be the mother of my children.

‘Faults and all’ Not wanting a child is a fault. Ok. Also, You want her to be the ‘mother of your children.’ Usually don’t raise an eyebrow at this phrase but coupled with all the other phrases you’ve used it just reinforces that you see your wife as a possession and a commodity that has to provide something you want.

But here is the kicker right now, she has decided FOR BOTH OF US that she is NOT having children biologically

As opposed to you deciding for BOTH OF YOU that you should have children. Obviously you see this as ok. Of course you do.

The days afterwards she has been being overly affectionate, as if nothing happened, and then she seemed to be randomly snappy and sarcastic at other times. I have been walking around in a daze like I have shellshock.

I’m not at all surprised, you get a bit ‘mad’ try and railroad her and educate her to your way of thinking, you involve family, you bully her basically. She’s probably mentally exhausted right now but you seem to have no concept of her feelings except it’s all me me me! I was depressed, I was shell shocked, poor me!

Just do your wife a favour and leave, let her find a man who deserves her.

Quite.

"I love my wife, so much that I want to coerce her into bearing children for me knowing she doesn't want them because its my right and I will continue to badger her until she does as I tell her".

Wildlingbobble · 08/02/2022 10:39

This has made me unbelievably angry just as a woman so I cannot begin to imagine how your wife feels. You have absolutely no right to essentially force her into carrying and raising a baby she doesn’t want - husband or not.

As someone born to a mother who was not maternal and should never have had children, I can tell you that anyone having kids they are not 100% sure on is a terrible idea. I have suffered immensely. You are not only coercing your wife, but potentially bringing a child into the world only for them to suffer terrible trauma.

I think, rather than procreating, your time would be better spent inventing time travel so that you can go back to the 1940’s. Your views on owning your wife’s body would be welcomed there. Good grief.

inheritancetrack · 08/02/2022 10:43

Your wife has lied to you for years. She has conned you into getting married with no intention of every giving you the family you want. She has lost your trust because she is not worthy of it. Waste no more time and leave. You are still young enough to meet someone who is on the same page as you. Divorce will,be simple and quick with no children involved.

inheritancetrack · 08/02/2022 10:46

@Wildlingbobble And it's fine his wife has lied to him for years clearly indicating she also wanted children? You are focusing on the male privilege aspect and totally ignoring the relationship side about honesty and trust.

C8H10N4O2 · 08/02/2022 10:51

@inheritancetrack

Your wife has lied to you for years. She has conned you into getting married with no intention of every giving you the family you want. She has lost your trust because she is not worthy of it. Waste no more time and leave. You are still young enough to meet someone who is on the same page as you. Divorce will,be simple and quick with no children involved.
She told him before the wedding and he continued and expresses entitlement to coerce her into bearing his children. Note that the OP has been telling her for years that he wants children, not that she wanted them. He gives equal weight to the money they spent on the wedding.

I do agree on the solution though - better for both of them to start afresh.

TeaStory · 08/02/2022 10:52

Commander Waterford? Is that you?!

MayBMaybenot · 08/02/2022 10:56

I was the same as your wife except that I was totally honest with my husband about my feelings from the start of our relationship. The thought of pregnancy and child birth were totally horrendous to me and I just could not see myself going through that. We agreed on the matter, married and had a good life until it became clear that he had changed his mind.

By that time I had had a sterilisation. We split up and both moved on amicably. Me to eventually marry my current DH, and him to marry his now wife.

Then she got pregnant and gave him a beautiful daughter. He called me to tell me he had become a dad and how happy he was ..... not trying to be hurtful, but just to let me know how he was.

I remember how the news hit me and still to this day (his daughter is now in her 20's) the memory makes me cry. I remember the pain, the hurt, the rejection, the sadness, the loss. I remember lying on my bed making a noise which wasn't crying, wasn't screaming. It was more like the howl of a wounded animal. I remember the numbness which followed and lasted for weeks, and the fact that I don't think I will ever get over it.

I so sincerely hope your wife does not go through this when the reality of her decision hits her as it did me. If you move on and find someone who would be happy to be the mother of your children - and I hope you do - she may realise, too late, that decisions such as this have lasting consequences. But it's her decision and her life.

Wildlingbobble · 08/02/2022 10:56

Also to the people who are harping on about how the wife has ‘lied’ - are women not allowed to be conflicted on something as big as having children? I know I definitely am.

Carrying a baby takes a big toll on a woman’s body - she may never be the same version of herself afterwards. Birth is terrifying, painful for most and life threatening for some. Women are usually the primary care providers, so give up most of their free time. That’s not even to mention the implications for their career and mental health. I know women who have lost every sense of who they were before their children. I knew women who have sadly lost their lives. There are few men who understand this, because society makes it so that women take the brunt.

The same society harps on at women who express concerns about having children. ‘You’ll change your mind’. ‘Girls become women when they become a mother’. ‘Who will take care of you when you’re old’. The fact baby dolls & kitchens & prams are marketed to little girls from being 3 years old. I believe some women are conflicted because society constantly bombards them with what they should want. They know in their hearts that they don’t want to be a mother but someone else (you in this situation OP) is always trying to convince them that they don’t know their own feelings. If I was getting married tomorrow I wouldn’t know 100% either way, for the whole reason.

She told him before they got married that she was unsure and has said since that she knows she doesn’t want kids. She hasn’t ‘tricked’ him into anything. He’s perfectly reasonable to want a divorce. He isn’t reasonable to guilt his wife into having a child - that is horrific.

OP, leave.

Lockheart · 08/02/2022 10:57

There is nothing to be done and no point arguing over who's behaved worse.

You either stay with her and accept you will never have children, or you divorce her and find someone who does want children. Those are your options.

Wildlingbobble · 08/02/2022 10:58

@inheritancetrack ^^^. Nothing to do with trust. Women are allowed to be conflicted about something so life changing - she expressed the conflict before the wedding. Never lied Smile

inheritancetrack · 08/02/2022 11:03

@Wildlingbobble No she gave conflicting messages throughout the relationship and was 'on board' at one time, and 'talking about children'. You know whether you want kids or not, but she lied and never once said pre marriage (she had plenty of time) no to children. Being conflicted is one thing, but you can't be conflicted for 15+ years! She knew she didn't want children, but kept stringing the OP along. In my book that's lying.

inheritancetrack · 08/02/2022 11:06

Op was also a total idiot not to have a real discussion about having a family instead of accepting these mixed messages.

Suzi888 · 08/02/2022 11:13

[quote Velvian]@Suzi888, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the OP. I hope she does find the strength to leave. This man is pissed off that he has not been able to erode his wife's boundary on this and wants to remove her bodily autonomy. He even enlisted her mum. She most definitely should leave.

How old were you both when you got together @KalebGalvin?[/quote]
@Velvian so do I. If my other half was banging on about kids for SEVENTEEN years I sure wouldn’t stick around for my dream bloody wedding!!!!!!! Jesus!

Suzi888 · 08/02/2022 11:16

Northernparent68
Interesting that the op is getting such a harsh time but women in his position are given such sympathy

This too

The OP clearly isn’t coming back, it’s turned into a “pile on”. Yet here the post still is.

Eycaluptus · 08/02/2022 11:28

I think the wife's perspective on this situation is probably very very different. The use of language, and repetition about the wife making choices for her own body scream that this situation isn't all it appears in the OP. Some of the wording sounds quite manipulative. I doubt the OP will be back to address this though.

Mollysocks · 08/02/2022 11:31

@Eycaluptus

I think the wife's perspective on this situation is probably very very different. The use of language, and repetition about the wife making choices for her own body scream that this situation isn't all it appears in the OP. Some of the wording sounds quite manipulative. I doubt the OP will be back to address this though.
I agree, for such a long (and I mean loooong) first post it’s odd OP hasn’t been back. Especially when he has such strong opinions.

I’m starting to doubt it’s validity now especially how it’s written. ‘Here’s the kicker..’ etc sounds like it’s written for dramatic effect.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 08/02/2022 11:35

I don’t think it is a pile on. Just observations.

His wife appears to have told him for years that she doesn’t want children.

I’d have sympathy if this was a bolt from the blue. I’d have sympathy if he hadn’t tried to educate her. I’d have sympathy if he hadn’t got his MIL involved.

Like Velvian I suspect her side is very different. He isn’t listening to her at all. And this is the only way she has left to say to him that she does not want to have children. Ever.

I’m surprised she hasn’t left to be honest.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 08/02/2022 11:40

molly

I don’t know if it is a frothmeister thread or not. 🤷‍♀️.

KalebGalvin · 08/02/2022 11:42

Some of you have had some valid input and I thank you for it. I was hoping to discuss this with people who may have had experience in these matters. However the thread has been hijacked by what I can only describe as a mob.

So allow me to respond.

None of you know me, you know nothing about my life, beyond what I wrote. So none of you are justified in insulting me, at all. If you think you have some right or justification for insulting me in any way, you should take a long look at yourself.

Given that you do not know me or anything about me really, if you have had such a violent outburst to the point you have to be insulting, you should likely look at the root causes of your anger, because I have not given you any reason to feel such a way so the causes have to be in your own mind.

I have not given any of you reason to be hostile to me like you have been, and frankly you should all be ashamed of yourselves, you are adults and mothers for the most part I imagine, I would expect more from ladies like you.

I have read many of the comments on here and most of them are taking my original words out of context in order to use them to fuel your own anger. Many of you have not even read my words, and the rest simply have not understood what I wrote.

I admit I was emotional while I wrote, and if you would all take a step back, I hope you would understand how difficult this situation is for both myself and my wife. So it was not written in the best way. However this does not account for many of you accusing me of things that I directly contradict in my original post.

I can only assume many of you have simply misunderstood and or jumped to conclusions before bothering to read the whole post. In fact I would bet that hardly any of you even really know WHAT you are accusing me of, or insulting me for. I have done nothing wrong, said nothing wrong, done nothing but treat my wife like a queen, so much so that this is the first time in 17 years I have had objection to what she wants.

Yet you talk of me like I am some kind of villain.

Most of you are behaving like an angry mob and it is sad how little spark it took to get you moving.

I won’t be bothering with this thread or this website again, you have clearly shown me what a toxic place this is.

You should be ashamed.

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 08/02/2022 11:42

She doesn't want kids.
You do.

You're fundamentally incompatible and you've both been foolish to keep negotiating something that there isn't a compromise for.

It's done now. It's over. Your marriage isn't going to work.

You say you're 35 so time is running out. I appreciate it may feel that way - I'm the same age and know that biologically my time is I suppose 'running out' to an extent when it comes to likelihood of pregnancy (though obviously I do have time, I'm not saying 35 is too late) but as a bloke you've got a far longer time available biologically to be a parent.

What you mustn't do though is waste any more of each other's time.

Your marriage is over. It sucks but that's just life sometimes.