My wife doesn't want kids

[KalebGalvin]

Hi, thanks for reading my post, any help would be greatly appreciated as I am going through a bit of hell right now and I need to vent and get some other opinions. I figured mumsnet would be a good place to get some advice from a community I wouldn't normally be a part of.

So, please bear with me, this is quite a story.

So, I have been with my wife for 16/17 years, only married for 4, but dated ever since we were teenagers. We are very much in love, I love her so very much, our friends and family were so happy to see us get married, that when we kissed, the entire church erupted in cheers. No things aren't perfect, but no more imperfect than any other relationship and better than most in my opinion.

BUT

In the lead up to our wedding, maybe a week or so before, she tells me she is worried she won't be able to give me a family, I figure it is just cold feet right? We have spoken about kids for years, I made it VERY VERY clear how I felt, I wanted a family, it has always been in my mind. She knew this, so her coming up with that on the eve of our wedding looked like cold feet.

So we got married, it was great, then on the honeymoon, she decided to tell me that she doesn't think she wants kids. I was blown away. Here we are having the time of our life, and she drops that bombshell. We just blew a lot of money getting married, we had everything going for us, and boom, she drops the big news.

But, she has always told me she was on board with it, and she was in her 20s and neither of us was particularly mature, so I said that we aren't wanting kids RIGHT NOW, and she seems to have changed her mind out of the blue. So I kept calm, I love this woman, I decided, let's go see a counselor, get some therapy both as couples and separately. Let's get some books and get educated. She told me she didn't want to get pregnant and do the whole child birth thing. So I figured, let's educate ourselves, put a pin in this and talk about it in the future. But for now, let's get educated on it first.

Fast forward 2 years, she comes to me and says that she really doesnt think she can have a baby. The pregnancy and birthing does not appeal to her, and seems terrifying and painful. But here is the kicker right now, she has decided FOR BOTH OF US that she is NOT having children biologically. I will address this more later, but she believes it is her body and she decides what happens to it, and she pretty much informed me she was not going to allow her body to get pregnant.

It really kicked off a bit here, I went a bit mad. Because she kept saying 'I know you would make an amazing dad, but I just can't do it'. We had a huge argument (which we have only ever had maybe 3 in the entire time we knew each other). I said I needed some time to think so I left the house, and I called her mother and let her know we had a bust up and that she may want to check in on her daughter (as they live close by). I was also going through some serious depression and was having some suicidal thoughts before she told me this, so I wasnt in the best place to hear this.

So her mum got involved a little bit here as she tried to support her daughter. I was a bit damn surprised by this in a way because she has had 3 kids of her own, and my wife's siblings have both had 1 or two kids themselves. Their family revolves around kids, so when my mother in law tried to tell me that I was being silly and that I didn't really know what I was talking about wanting kids, I was somewhat infuriated at the hypocrisy. This is exacerbated by the fact that until that very phone call, my wife has avoided telling anybody in her family that she felt this way about kids as each time the subject came up they all told her she would change her mind and asked when she was going to have her first kid. So my mother in law going the full 180 caught me off guard and it is hard to argue with somebody who is being a total hypocrite.

But we spoke afterwards and I said to my wife I don't care about biology. I asked if it was just the birth and pregnancy she couldn't do and whether she would be ok with adopting. She said yes, she could be open to that but that she wasn't totally onboard with it, but removing the pregnancy from the table really helped her process it and changed her views a lot.

So we put a pin in it again, I felt like this was progress. 6 months down the line she said one evening when we were on the sofa, that she really appreciated my being open to adoption and that she is kind of coming round. I saw this as a great sign.

Then give it another 6 months to a year, which brings us to last week. Now I just got a new job, this is not related, other than to say we have more money than we have ever had, and after my professional life being in the drain for 7 years, things are looking very promising for me. And I think maybe this new money and future prospects will assuage her fears about the financial side of kids. But she totally blindsided me, because last week, out of the blue she told me she wants to get sterilized. I was a bit stunned so I can't remember the reason, but essentially she wants to stop taking birth control pills, and even with the pills she doesn't enjoy sex at all as all she can think about is the danger of getting pregnant.

This has seriously messed with my mind. The last time we spoke she was on the fence about kids, but she has now gone full hard reverse and gone as deep as possible into the no child territory. And though I have not looked into this much, I am pretty sure that being voluntarily sterilized with no medical reason is a massive red flag if you try to adopt later on. So not only is this a hard no to getting pregnant, it is also putting adoption at real risk too.

But then she landed the master stroke of this statement. I asked her how she feels about adoption now, and she said she would do it, but only because I wanted to. AS IF ADOPTING A KID WAS LIKE BUYING A CAT. This scared me to death because with that one statement she admitted that she doesn't want kids in any capacity, but also that she would be willing to adopt a kid (lets ignore the issue of the difficulties of adopting for the moment) just to make me happy. That is so very irresponsible and just wrong.

She once again decided to get sterilized on her own, she was not asking my permission, merely asking what I thought about it, though the way she worded it she was clearly doing it out of courtesy, not because she feels I should have a say in it.

(Let's address this before it goes any further. I will fight to defend anybody's right to say what is done with their own body. Even though i want kids, if my wife got accidentally pregnant, I would not even think of stopping her getting an abortion if that was her wish, because it was not planned and it is her body. But in a marriage, certain things affect both parties. In deciding not to get pregnant, she has made that decision for me too, without consulting or even asking me really. The same goes with getting sterilized. I am not saying I should have to give her my permission to do things with her own body, but when it affects me too, I should at least be considered. I wouldn't get a vasectomy without asking her, I wouldn't get a massive face tattoo without asking her, because it affects her too)

I was totally shocked by this. She has basically told me that she has now made her mind up and is willing to permanently make steps to stop getting pregnant. Not only this, she has in my opinion quite possibly sabotaged the idea of adopting too, and I can't help but think this was deliberate.

What really confused me though, is that after she said this to me, we had an awkward evening. The days afterwards she has been being overly affectionate, as if nothing happened, and then she seemed to be randomly snappy and sarcastic at other times. I have been walking around in a daze like I have shellshock. I can hardly feel anything right now. And I don't care about anything because I have been in fight or flight mode since we had the talk. I have no idea what is going to happen, I alternate between not eating, and stress eating compulsively.

I tend to put other people before me, it is just something I do. In the case of my relationship I usually let my wife get her way with most things as my goal was to make her happy. I was not a pushover by any means, but I tried my best to make her happy. This entire time with this issue I have tried to be understanding, I spent a long time questioning if I could live without kids. But the moment she made this decision for us, and took having kids off the table, it just made me realize how much I do want them.

I have two nephews and two nieces, whom I love very much. I tried to pretend I could be happy with just them, but I only have to look at my two brothers in law with their kids to know I won’t be. Those kids love me, I am very good with them, but to them I am just their uncle, they love me but they don’t seem me but once a year. So we don’t get much time together. And every time I see how those kids are with their dads, I ask ‘why can’t I have that?’ and I wonder what is so bad about that that my wife will go so far as to get sterilized to prevent it.

My wife believes I have accepted her decision about sterilization, I have not. But I do not believe it to be in my power to forbid her anything. And in truth I don’t care about the sterilization itself, more so that I care what it means. It means she has made her mind up, she is no longer saying she doesn't ‘think’ she wants kids, she may as well have signed a contract saying she does not want, will not want children and is willing to permanently remove tha from the realm of possibility.

And in giving me her response of an absolute no, she essentially gave me an ultimatum. I didn’t respond properly to her question because I believe once we pull the pin on that discussion, there will be no controlling its momentum, and I want to know how I feel when I broach this subject.

I understand how she feels, at least I think I am. I try to understand her logic, kids are expensive, messy, they disrupt your life and in truth if you had to sign a document stating what you were getting vs what you would have to forfeit, it makes no sense. But on the other hand I just feel strongly that I want to be a parent. I want to teach my kids how to be adults, and show them the world. I never had a good relationship with my dad, but my grandad raised me in all the ways that matter, and I have always wanted to be looked at the same way I looked at him, the same way my nephews look at their dads. I think I would be a great dad (admittedly many do).

So even though my instinct is to give my wife her own way, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just go along with not having kids. I feel like I would resent it more and more each day.

This is not to mention that she lied to me too. When she told me on the honeymoon that she changed her mind, I thought it was a recent development, as if something had scared her. But when she brought it up last week, she said she always knew from a young age she didn’t want to be a mother.

So whether she lied to me out of fear of losing me (I think this is most likely) or she lied to trick me, the end result is the same. We shouldn’t be in this situation, I feel tricked, like this woman who I hold above all else, and I KNOW she has never lied to me about anything else, just happened to keep this secret which rocks the foundations of our entire relationship.

I WANT to say this is not fair, this is all your fault and just leave and try to find somebody else. But I LOVE my wife, faults and all. And I WANT her to be the mother of my children.

I want to rage, but I just feel sad. I feel like there is no right answer. If I stay I will be sad and resentful. If I go I will lose my wife and best friend of 17 years.

I caused none of this, she caused this whole thing by not being honest. And it almost seems as if she doesn’t understand what is at stake. She has not behaved very well about this whole issue and yet I am the one struggling with so much guilt. I don’t want to lose her, but I don’t believe it is right of her to ask me to give up on wanting my own family either.

I just don’t know what to do. I mean I don’t want to hurt her, but in a very real way she has hurt me deeply, and I am going to be hurt no matter what I do. I am almost 35, time is running out if I am to meet anybody else, but at the same time, I don’t want anybody.
Sorry I know this is a meandering mess of a story. But it is representative of my mind right now. I am glad I am not suffering from depression and the suicidal ideation anymore, that would make it even harder to think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time.
Have any of you been through something like this? Did you choose to leave or stay? Do you regret your choice?

I would love to hear your thoughts, because I am just ruminating on this like crazy. My therapist would be really angry at me for thinking about this so much. I am just going round in circles.

I think people have been harsh to the OP. I can understand why he is upset and feels the way he does.

I am a woman who does not want children. Luckily my other half is on the same page as me. But if it came to maybe losing him and walking away I would probably stay and hope that I changed my mind. That's no doubt what the wife has done.

Does it make her selfish? Yes maybe a bit. But I do feel for her, just as I feel for the man who also hasn't done anything wrong.

I think both of them have been bumbling along hoping the other will change their mind. It's evident that neither will.

Interesting that the op is getting such a harsh time but women in his position are given such sympathy

She doesn’t want children and she has told you that many many times. You need to listen to what she is saying. She even told you before your marriage but you chose to go through with it anyway. Your right to have children down not trump her right to not have children. If you want them you really need to leave and have them with someone else.

I understand the pressure of everyone else around you not fully listening when you indicate that you don't want children from a young age. People mostly ignore it, tell you you are being silly, tell you you will change you mind etc. It's awful. When you hit you 30 it's possible and nectarine be a bit more forceful with it and even then people still seems surprised. She doesn't want children, you want children. Just leave. Do it either care and dignity, but still do it. There is no way past this.

Honestly, the only thing I think she’s done wrong is not telling you sooner.

Since before you got married it seems she’s made it pretty clear that that she doesn’t want kids, yet everytime you have a discussion on it you’re completely shocked?

You’ve also mentioned your career being in the pan for 7 years, and feelings of suicidal thoughts and depression. Perhaps she thinks this isn’t quite the ideal situation to bring kids into like you do.

Seriously the whole post screams of narcissism, gaslighting, and control on your half. Getting the MIL is a huge red flag to me; you didn’t tell her out of concern for your wife, you did it hoping she’d try and change her daughters mind, and when she doesn’t your completely flabbergasted as to why not. You’re trying your absolute best to get your wife to fit into the situation and life you want, not the one she wants.

This could've been much shorter.

I really want children, my wife does not.

You either stay because you love each other and would rather have a life with her without children or leave and hope you meet someone else to have children with.

Stop blaming her for not wanting the same thing as you, she's been telling you but instead of hearing what she's saying you've ignored her and tried to educate her.

She must feel under so much pressure with you also going to your MIL. Do her a favour and go your separate ways.

Leave and find someone who wants children if it's that important to you.

@Northernparent68

Interesting that the op is getting such a harsh time but women in his position are given such sympathy

These 'a women would get different advice' responses are so dull. Why are you choosing to ignore all the really concerning things about the OP? The lack of understanding that the wife has autonomy over her own body, the strange 'educate ourselves' comments. Calling the MIL a hypocrit for respecting and supporting her daughters choice. It is sad there this has ended up this way but it doesn't sound like the wife had much room to be any more clear.

She told you before you got married. You chose to believe it was cold feet. Your bad.

End of

Leave OP, the good news is that time is hardly running out for you, it's the opposite. A 35 year old man who wants a LTR and children? You'd be an extremely hot commodity on the dating scene.

@LimeSegment

Leave OP, the good news is that time is hardly running out for you, it's the opposite. A 35 year old man who wants a LTR and children? You'd be an extremely hot commodity on the dating scene.

I don’t think a man with a history of severe depression and suicidal thoughts, 7 years of career disaster, and exhibiting quite controlling behaviours is that much of a hot commodity.

@SelkieQualia

There's a post about this at least once per week on mumsnet. The answer is that there is no compromise here - you either become patents or you don't, there is no half way. You want kids, she doesn't. As much as you love each other, you are incompatible. You need to leave, and you need to do it now.

This.

Your marriage cannot work now. It will fester and you will end up hating eachother.

You are both young enough to find someone else.

In your 30s you will find that relationships move much more quickly than in your teens.

If it’s any consolation I doubt you both would get approval to adopt - it’s tough, and they unpick your relationship. This mess would come spu’ing out and it would be a big no. I say this from experience.

If you want children you’ll need to leave her. And that’s absolutely morally fine.

Leave her. You'll never be able to forgive her for what she's done. She sounds horrible. Find a nice woman who wants to have children.

I think you should leave. You are just incompatible. And kids is not something you can compromise on. Its very black and white and if you arent on the same page then the relationship cant be happy.
I dont think your wife has purposely deceived or tricked you. I was never interested in babies/kids when i was young. Babysitting would have been my hell as a teenager and in my early 20s i also had no interest in kids.
But lots if people feel like that and it changes over the years. Maybe she just thought she doesnt want kids now, but it might change in the future. And from what you wrote she was always honest and open about being on the fence and leaning towards not having them. Maybe you want kids so much that you just hoped/thought she will change her mind and didnt properly listen to what she was actually saying. Its not like she promised you kids for years and then took it back. It was always a “maybe, but probably not.”

I dont think it matters whose fault it is though. You really want kids and she doesnt. You cant have her as the mother of your children. So you have to decide between this woman and having kids.

@MMmomDD

I’ll say the same as I said on another (gender reversed thread) No partner (woman in your case) is worth giving up having kids for. No matter how perfect they seem to you.

Good news for you, being a man, you don’t have quite the same deadline/time pressure. Your fertility doesn’t go puff in the next 10years.

Divorce. Forget the expense of the wedding. People will understand your reasons.
There are plenty of women your age looks for partners who want to have kids. You will have no problem meeting someone.

You and your W met at children. You have changed and became adults over the past 15 years. You may have shared a world view back in childhood. But you clearly want different things as adults. You have outgrown the relationship. Time to move on.

This, you are grown up now, the relationship is over. 17 years later. Sad for you both but her moodiness means she's nudging you towards this even if she can't articulate acknowledge it yet

It's over. It was over before the wedding, you just didn't realise it. Leave.

Leave now. Don't stay to argue, fight and become more bitter. Neither of you is right or wrong, but you are wrong for each other.

I suspect she has been telling you in more subtle ways for years that she doesn't want kids, or at least that she wasn't particularly enthusiastic about it. But given that you clearly don't listen when she says these things bluntly, then I'm guessing you probably missed those more subtle hints too.

She hasn’t tricked you at all; she’s repeatedly told you she doesn’t want kids and you’ve decided you can change her mind. It’s clearly not going to work.

Ps) she has total autonomy over her body because it’s her body, not yours. Hope that helps

It must have taken a lot of courage for your wife to tell you that she didn't want children before your wedding. The timing makes me think that she was really scared to tell you, but wanted to do the right thing.

I get the impression that you are controlling. Your only shock is that despite the many occasions your wife has told you she does not want children, you have need been able to coerce her to have your child.

The sterilisation is a direct response to your attitude. I suspect that she would not feel the need to take this step away from you.

Her mum is not a hypocrite. That is a bizarre analysis of the situation. I have DC, but totally understand why a woman would not want children, all the more so, in fact. You tried to bring in a third party when your controlling behaviour wasn't working. Thank goodness it backfired on you.

I don't think you will ever be a good us and or father until you do some serious work on your own behaviour and responses.

* This usually comes up the other way round and the advice is to leave and find someone who does want children. There are plenty of women in their 30s, leaving men who've strung them along who will be able to empathise with you.*

^This. Leave her and do it now. You’ll find someone to have kids with.

She doesn't want kids biological or adopted. You do....you either accept a life without kids or you leave and find someone who does.

I'm wondering if the telling you she wants to get sterilised was meant to be a wake-up call as it seems like no matter how many times she tells you that she doesn't want to have children you don't seem to want to really listen and accept it.

As PP have said as a 35 year old man there are women around your age who will be looking for someone to have children with. Before you get into a new relationship I think you should consider your listening and communication skills as well as how you process bad news. Try to learn something from this.

The biggest problem that you have is in believing that you are right and that she must eventually come around to your way of thinking. This is nuts! You are a giant red flag wrapped up in red bunting!

She should be running for the hills!