Mother moved out with baby with in the UK

[Moonsago]

My collegue ( also good friend) has moved out of the house without telling to her husband. He knows where she is but she refuses to come back or have any sort of communication with him.

She is staying in a flat by herself with the child. She refuses to communicate or show the child to the father. She just is astronomically pissed with her H for being an arse and beleives its over. Husband beleives it not and he dosnt beleive he was wrong as he believed everything was rosy and his wife was happy. However, obviously he is wrong and this came as a bitter surprise to him.

Could this become a legal issue as the couple is still married and she just shuts down with the baby?

Of course it can. He is still the father so regardless of how he has acted as a husband (exceptions for DV or similar) he still has a right to see his child or know they are ok. How old is the child?

Could this become a legal issue as the couple is still married and she just shuts down with the baby?
Well yes. What other option is there apart from the courts?

This happens every day. Women leave their husbands. Custody arrangements will need to be worked out. There is a court system in place to facilitate this.

I say good on her. Wish more of us were brave enough to do this. She can stand firm and custody will be sorted by court arrangement. He should get a solicitor now to engage with her solicitor. She doesn’t have to facilitate anything she doesn’t want to. She’s done and has made that clear.

and don’t start telling her she should communicate to him and be “reasonable” she should be celebrated for having the guts to pull the plug. Put her in touch with a good solicitor if you want to be helpful.

There are two things here:

1. Could this become a legal issue? Absolutely yes. If the marriage is over there will have to be arrangements made around contact and maintenance. That's a normal part of what happens when a couple separate.

2. Has the mother done anything illegal/criminal? Absolutely no. She's moved out. She has parental responsibility and the father knows where she and the baby are. Everything that needs to be done sits within the domain of the civil courts, not the criminal courts.

I hope they reach a civilised resolution.

What is paramount is the rights of the child. It's not usually in a child's best interests to be cut off from one parent unless that parent has a history of being abusive.

It is definitely not in a child's best interests to be used as a pawn in a power struggle between warring adults and a parent who isn't capable of prioritising the child's wellbeing in order to score points off their soon-to-be-ex is risking being seen as not a good parent.

Good parents sometimes do find their relationships with each other fail and die. They need to act like grownups and talk in a mature and civilised manner about how to minimise the negative impact on their child and ensure that they can work together as partners in parenting the child even though they are no longer partners in life generally.

If she wants a divorce she should look at the legal option options available to her.

If he wants to see his child then he should look at legal options available to him.

If she is fearful of being harmed by him, she should look at her legal options.

So, the H does NOT want to be seperated. Apparently custody only comes into picture if they decide to seperate?

H is really craving the baby and has lost his peace and in a bad state. However he dosnt realise that he was a diffucult spouse.

Mother dosnt want to go back to him but also wont initialise anything, just blacked out. I do agree she was brave but just worry if she will get into some trouble if the H puts a kidnap case on her.. as he has given me long messages on how he is getting desperate and angry on her sneaking off with the baby and plans to talk to social services etc..

Can she be in trouble as a primary carer?
Baby boy is 8 months old.

My personal opinion (so no idea re law or whatever) is that if this was the other way around how would she feel? Being a disappointment of a husband doesn't give somebody the right to take their child away from them.
If she doesn't want to talk to him then she should keep the communication very limited or through a solicitor and just talk about when he can see his child

Im confused, the wife DOES want to separate, she moved out so the husband is separated from his wife. Why would a mother be in trouble for taking her baby with her when separating from her husband?

@Partyforone

Im confused, the wife DOES want to separate, she moved out so the husband is separated from his wife. Why would a mother be in trouble for taking her baby with her when separating from her husband?

Because she is not letting him see his child. She doesn't have the right to make that decision.

So, the H does NOT want to be seperated. Apparently custody only comes into picture if they decide to seperate?

They have separated! The mother has left. That is her right. She can’t be forced to continue either cohabiting or the relationship.

And no, moving out of your home with your child is not kidnap. Both parties now need to go through the entirely standard, ordinary, everyday legal process (which may involve mediation) in order to finalise residency and contact with their child.

It doesn't sound like a good idea for you to correspond with this man.

Hopefully your friend can trust you to support her without telling him anything that might harm her.

Your friend needs to get her bearings. She will sort things out when she is ready.

It's not something you can control.

So, the H does NOT want to be seperated. Apparently custody only comes into picture if they decide to seperate?

They are separated. She has made the move. Whatever his behaviour and whether or not he accepts it has caused her to leave.

They both have options available to them. She can begin divorce proceedings and he can seek advice for access to his dc. His first step afaik is mediation.

I have a friend in a similar situation, his dw left and he hasn't seen his dc for almost 6 months. Dw refuses to engage with mediation and didn't attend the court date. Both are exaggerating their side to get sympathy/justify their positions and it's just awful for all involved.

The best thing your friend can do is accept she is gone and seek legal advice for a custody arrangement for his dc (noting the dw may not engage).

No, she cannot be accused of kidnap if she has parental responsibility unless she tries to remove the baby from the country without his permission. He needs to see a solicitor in family law in order to gain access to his child.

The mother is within her rights. The father needs to seek legal advice to exercise his right to contact with the child. The ball is in his court.

The mother may well be waiting for the husband to start the ball rolling for court ordered access, as often advised on here.

He's her husband, not her owner. They've separated - he knows where she is. She hasn't kidnapped the baby. No doubt she has reasons for leaving and contact will be worked out in time.

The mother is wrong not to be communicating about the onwards arrangements for the DC.

But as people don't just up,and leave on a whim, you need to bear in mind that he may not be telling you the whole truth.

The best thing for you to do now is to help him accept that he is separated, and that he needs to find a calm and productive way to negotiate child and financial arrangements.

It is not a kidnap case, and there's no obvious reason why social services would be involved, and if he tries to threaten her like that I hope you will tell him in plain language how wrong he is. He does seem to be lacking insight and self-awareness

She can only be accused of parental kidnap if she attempts to leave the UK with the child.

He doesn't get to control where the mother of the child lives, or who with, she is an independent adult and he has no power over her. If he doesn't want to separate that's tough, but he doesn't get to choose not to, she has left.

She isn't guilty of kidnapping but she does need to engage in negotiating formal contact arrangements when she is settled.

If she has left him, they are separated. You don't need consent to separate from someone.

And no, you cannot kidnap your own child and if he tried to claim she had, the police would politely tell him to get bent.

I'm sorry he misses his child and everything, but your comments and apparently his mindset have a very unpleasant undertone of ownership, like he can't quite believe his wifepossession is allowed to get up to stuff he didn't authorise and cause him inconvenience.

He should consult a family lawyer to begin the process of establishing access via mediation and, if necessary, court.

Ok, its a bit of relief that its not kidnap as she is in the UK.

Her H has copy pasted these messages to some of us (4 of us) who used to visit them, so its not just me. He actually wrote it to her but she wont respond.

I will advice her to get a solicitor as she cant go on like this not showing the baby to her H while the guy is sitting on a hot pan ready to burst.

You need to keep your beak out. If the H is pestering you and being 'angry' then it sounds like she did the right thing by leaving him. It is not your business either way.
He can apply to the court for contact but until that's done he has no right to know anything of her whereabouts - and if he tries it on by calling the police and claiming she is a danger to the child, he will get himself into a heap of well-deserved trouble.
It's also worth noting that, while a court may order contact between father and child, it is perfectly legal for the mother to have no contact whatsoever with her ex: arrangements can all be made via a third party.