Mother moved out with baby with in the UK

[Moonsago]

My collegue ( also good friend) has moved out of the house without telling to her husband. He knows where she is but she refuses to come back or have any sort of communication with him.

She is staying in a flat by herself with the child. She refuses to communicate or show the child to the father. She just is astronomically pissed with her H for being an arse and beleives its over. Husband beleives it not and he dosnt beleive he was wrong as he believed everything was rosy and his wife was happy. However, obviously he is wrong and this came as a bitter surprise to him.

Could this become a legal issue as the couple is still married and she just shuts down with the baby?

@Quartz2208

I agree OP you need to block him - he is clearly unhinged and potentially dangerous.

She needs to seek legal advice and see if a Non Mol is possible and start the process of getting away from him.

That's quite a leap. He could also be entirely innocent and desperate.

Getting a non mol when there is no physical abuse is not straight forward (I speak from experience).

He can't make her stay in this horrible relationship.

If she decides it is over, it is over.

I am guessing neither of them is familiar with the laws of the UK wrt marriage, divorce, the family courts?

She needs to contact
rightsofwomen.org.uk/

as well as Women's Aid.

She needs to contact rightsofwomen.org.uk/

I was never once able to actually get through to them. This was over 4 years ago now so maybe things have changed.

@SofiaSoFar

What's her reasoning for not allowing him to have contact with the baby?

The mother was obviously free to leave, which she did, but what else is going on?

If only I knew what exactly happened as she willingly left the first abusive husband for the current husband. Although it might sound like an affair, she had left the first husband bravely for her 'love' ( atleast at that time). They came to the UK and had a baby last year.

It bizzare how they seemed to be fine just 3 months ago and now.

I am starting to think I should be out of this as I keep writing replies!

Yes, although not criminally.

If she is keeping his child from him he needs to contact the courts and apply for an emergency contact order, they will enforce custody.

@TheOrigRights which is why the OP needs to remove herself from it, block him and decide if she needs to recommend legal advice or completely stay out of it.

It is hard to know without all the information which is why seeing a solicitor is always recommended

She wants to separate and has every right to do so regardless of what he wants

She can’t stop contact just because she thinks he’s been an arse

The child has a right to a relationship with both parents unless one is abusive toward the other and/or the children, in which case it’s not in the children’s best interest

In this case, unless he is abusive, she needs to get over him being an arse and her decision to have a child with someone about whose personality she was not really clear about, and facilitate contact. The baby can’t speak so she has to act for them in their best interests

Are they UK nationals? Is he perhaps worried she may move away with baby? If he is controlling it may only be more obvious once she had the baby and was/is off work.

So, the H does NOT want to be seperated. Apparently custody only comes into picture if they decide to seperate? tough. She's gone. They are separated. That's it. He needs to accept that

She doesn't have to anything voluntarily wrt contact.

If the man wants contact with the child, he and his former wife can work out an agreed custody-contact /visitation schedule through mediation and the court can order it. They will both be obliged to follow the agreed, court ordered schedule. Any changes would have to be ordered by the court.

If both of them have strong links to family abroad it will be necessary to prohibit taking the baby out of the country. The court can order a part of the custody and visitation agreement that any removal of the child from the country by either parent can only be done with the court's permission.

It absolutely can become a legal issue if her husband wants to have contact with his child. The onus is on him to get the ball rolling there.

Sounds like there might be more to their split than the wife simply being pissed off with the husband. I left in a similar way, albeit to live in a refuge not my own flat, and I shut down all communication, didn’t tell him where I was etc. For my own safety and to give myself some breathing space so he couldn’t bully me into coming back.

[quote Quartz2208]@TheOrigRights which is why the OP needs to remove herself from it, block him and decide if she needs to recommend legal advice or completely stay out of it.

It is hard to know without all the information which is why seeing a solicitor is always recommended[/quote]
I agree.

I am starting to think I should be out of this as I keep writing replies!

I think you should stop giving more and more personal details about other peoples lives. Has your friend given you permission to broadcast her background, history and current circumstances all over the internet?

Agree OP just tell them both to talk to a solicitor and then stay out of it.

Difficult to tell from outside the relationship but does sound likely he was being emotionally abusive. In which case him contacting her friends trying to turn them against her / persuade them to harass her is actually part of his abuse campaign.

They need a divorce / separation agreement. As the mother of a baby she will get custody and he will get some access rights. How much he gets and whether unsupervised will depend on what the couole persuade the jusge is best for the child. If she feels the father is any kind of threat to the child (for example emotionally abusive) then she needs to talk to a solicitor about how best to limit his access.

If you are her friend (not his) then suggest you don’t respond to his messages or send a single message saying something like Sorry to hear that this is the situation, I wish you both all the best in finding the way forward. Then block him before he can draw you in any further.

@Moonsago

So, the H does NOT want to be seperated. Apparently custody only comes into picture if they decide to seperate?

H is really craving the baby and has lost his peace and in a bad state. However he dosnt realise that he was a diffucult spouse.

Mother dosnt want to go back to him but also wont initialise anything, just blacked out. I do agree she was brave but just worry if she will get into some trouble if the H puts a kidnap case on her.. as he has given me long messages on how he is getting desperate and angry on her sneaking off with the baby and plans to talk to social services etc..

Can she be in trouble as a primary carer?
Baby boy is 8 months old.

Coercive and abusive people know damn well what they're doing. That's why he's using you to try to get to her and will continue to do so if you respond to him in any manner.

However, such threats may be useful as evidence of his abusive and manipulative nature. So don't delete them or block him, especially as it's possible that he will try to pressurise and threaten you if he thinks you are the way he can find out where she is.

When it comes to family courts a mother refusing to engage with a DC father due to her being upset at him being controlling in their relationship will not go down well.

You cannot use DC in this way. A relationship between the adults may be a shit show but that doesnt allow one parent to decide to stop contact because of the way they were treated. If the OP DH here was engaged with their DC it wont look good at all in court if she has stopped all contact because of her issues within the relationship.

She needs to be very careful...family courts is all about the DC not a toxic relationship between the adults

What was his level of interaction with the baby prior to his wife leaving? In my experience - a hands off dad who doesn't seem to give a crap about his kids within the marriage, then demanding access after the split is just abusive and using the kids to control the ex. (Mine constantly demanded and threatened me regarding his access even though he never showed up for any of the arrangements and spent his time ignoring them the very few times he did bother to show).

If he was an active and involved dad prior to the split, then I can understand his upset and frustration but then he needs to get a lawyer/court to sort out access if she isn't communicating. His failure to do so and threaten social services and false allegations of kidnapping sounds abusive. She probably has good reason to ignore him.

@Christinatherabbit

I don't understand. Has there been DV? Heavy alcohol or drug abuse? Is he a threat to the child? If no what on earth gives her the right to stop all contact with the baby? If I have missed something fair enough but if this was the other way round and the father had decided to disappear while the mum was at work and refuse to engage and stop all contact would that be okay? She has absolutely every right to leave but unless the baby is in danger being with his father no right to separate them. No wonder he's angry and getting desperate. You say he was clueless there was even an issue so she hadn't even given him a chance to talk things through or work out an arrangement.

This actually happened to my friend. The husband took the child and refused any contact. It took many weeks and money to sort out custody through courts. While legally he did not break the law, the court did not see his actions as in the best interest of the child and gave custody to the mother while he only got weekends.

@Mom2K

What was his level of interaction with the baby prior to his wife leaving? In my experience - a hands off dad who doesn't seem to give a crap about his kids within the marriage, then demanding access after the split is just abusive and using the kids to control the ex. (Mine constantly demanded and threatened me regarding his access even though he never showed up for any of the arrangements and spent his time ignoring them the very few times he did bother to show).

If he was an active and involved dad prior to the split, then I can understand his upset and frustration but then he needs to get a lawyer/court to sort out access if she isn't communicating. His failure to do so and threaten social services and false allegations of kidnapping sounds abusive. She probably has good reason to ignore him.

He's not allowed to see his child AT ALL. Any parent would be upset by that and it's never beneficial to the child unless there are serious reasons for no contact!

And as I previously said, while what she's doing is not illegal it will not look good in family court. The court is all about child's welfare.

@Moonsago

Ok... I dont know if there was DV but my friend says ( cries :( ) that he is extremely controlling and make her walk on egg shells 24/7. Judges her and wont just treat her like a human with feelings.

She is sad that he will do the same to the son.
She wants to prove that he wont be a great father so that she can just live seperately with the child.

I dont know the legalities about it but she also recorded him yelling at her while she was just trying to reason with him. I do agree it wasnt pleasant. The H dosnt know she has the recordings.

I think like pp said she isnt ready to start proceeding herself with all the proof she has but just taking a break from him and his micro management now.

All I was worried was if she could have a case on her but that seems to be unlikely, so .. thats a relief.

So you DO know.

She’s told you.

This is why we have Family Court.

@Chickendinna

I'm 75% certain that I actually know these people described by the OP. The details of the couple I know are pretty much exactly the same. I also know a little more about the situation and I think it's likely to be them: -I know how this woman controlled her husband- his friendships, accused him of affairs, refused to allow him to continue their friendship with another couple after finding a finger nail which "looked like hers."

• She stood in the way of relationships with his family.

-She called the police on him for basically disagreeing with her and cried domestic abuse.

-Abandoned him in another country after checking his phone whilst he slept because he dared to message a woman he worked with about arranging a works night out.

-Didn't allow him to be a father to their baby, told him everything he did was wrong. Shouted at him all the time if he put something in the wrong place or, and I quote "sang the song wrong" and "changed his nappy wrong."

The woman is possessive, controlling and intensely jealous. She would record her husband purely for disagreeing with her and should he have raised his voice, she revelled in it and threatened all sorts with it. She's using their son as a weapon in a nasty game of possession and control. And now she is trying to frame him for harrassment for daring to contact her repeatedly to see his son.

Out of somewhere in the region of 50,000 births per month in England and Wales?

If we assume the sex of the child matches, you've identified 1 in 25,000?

It's hard to judge without knowing how much this father did for his child before the mother left. If he's hardly ever done a feed, changed a nappy or played with the baby, his protestations of missing them are fairly unconvincing.

If there is DV/abuse involved, it's useful to remember that this is the most dangerous time for the mother, having just left. So not letting him know where she lives and not having any contact makes sense and is not something she should be criticised for.