Would you stay with your partner if they decided to transition?

[RedRobyn2021]

I'm watching an episode of Queer Eye where this transwoman's partner said they stayed with them after they decided they wanted to transition and it got me thinking

If your partner decided they wanted to transition would you stay with them?

@Limegreentangerine

Yes quite simply I'm in love with her soul not her genitals

But we're told that transitioning is not about changing genitals so what do you mean by this?

@DontLikeCrumpets I noticed the same phenomenon in Russell T Davies It's a Sin. The main female character was a two-dimensional support human to the men; from doing all the medical research to, of course, the cooking and cleaning. Yay.

I'm bi, but tend not to be attracted to people who conform to gender stereotypes (so no super feminine women nor masculine men).

Who can say what transition might mean in advance? If it was all about ultra-feminine dress and mannerisms (to 'pass') then I think that would be hard.

If DH wanted to change his name and pronouns and just shop in the womens section of Muji I'd be totally cool with that.

Errr NO

No but I’d like to think I’d be supportive.

Absolutely not.

What makes you think her 'soul' would stay the same?

I've mentioned before those who have said Yes have made it all about the genitals, those who have said No have talked about the lies, the gas lighting, the change in personality, the change in sex dynamics, the re-writing of history... I could go on.

I really think the fallacy of 'they are still the same person' needs to be buried deep in the hills of ignorance.

I think its the most harmful idea out there. On the one hand it reduces men and women to stereotypes of clothes and on the other hand it neglects the purpose of changing your identity is to 'give permission' for different types of behaviour.

I have found it comes from a well meaning place but rarely with real life experience of a close relationship and what it means in practice.

@BelindaBumcrack - can confirm some men will stay with a trans male partner, two friends of mine remain very happily married after one transitioned to male. I do expect most men wouldn't, but happily wasn't the case here.

No

*What makes you think her 'soul' would stay the same?

I've mentioned before those who have said Yes have made it all about the genitals, those who have said No have talked about the lies, the gas lighting, the change in personality, the change in sex dynamics, the re-writing of history... I could go on.*

I feel like this argument sometimes takes place between two extreme points of view, neither of which is necessarily accurate. My experience is that the "if you love someone then you shouldn't mind, because you love the soul, not the genitals" is not a very realistic portrayal of relationships full stop. What even is loveable about someone's soul? That isn't how reality works - in reality, big life changes put a huge pressure on relationships, whether that's your partner deciding to quit their career as a banker to become an artist or if they became disabled and needed you to be a carer or found religion or whatever. And gender transition is a massive change that, in my experience, would put a strain on any relationship. The "if you love them you'll just be happy for them" narrative isn't fair and does silence partners when they also nearly always need support.

Equally, I am not very sold on the assumption that transition makes a total lie out of your whole past relationship or involves a total change of personality etc. That wasn't what happened to me or any of the other couples where one half was transitioning. My now ex and I still talk about our relationship, I've never been told I'm not allowed to remember it. She didn't totally change personality - she is the same person under it all - she still has the same academic interests and hobbies, she still has most of the same friends, and the focus on hair and make up settled down hugely over time - it was just a big deal as she was having to learn so much that natal women tend to pick up slowly over time, normally in our teens, and then can discard or keep as we want.

I wish it was possible to discuss the "in the middle" a bit more. I ended up feeling like I couldn't express the issues I was having with her transition while still caring about her without being called names by one side or the other and that massively sucked.

Being in love with someone's "soul" is very much breaking into Religious territory, which I guess fits with the whole Trans Ideology. I'm not religious and don't believe in "souls"

Obviously lots more no replies than yeses but rather than we're being coerced as suggested I do wonder if it's generational/cultural.

I grew up in the 80s and preteen my bedroom walls were plastered with Adam Ant and Grace Jones. When older, I had a fabulous poster of Frank N Furter from Rocky Horror resplendent in his corset and fishnet stockings on my wall. I had these posters because I found the people attractive and part of their attraction was the makeup and clothes they wore.

I'm sure there is some such specific name for what I am (other than Bi) but I am attracted to masculine looking females and feminine looking males. The clothes do not have to be overtly sexual, for example in the 80s I thought Boy George and Pete Burns were beautiful too.

Given Harry Styles' (another beauty) gender fluidity, I do wonder if Gen Z are more of my mind set due to cultural influences?

I know Eddie Izzard is still around but wonder if he is still relevant or had much influence on millennials.

No I don't think I could. The idea that the person I fell in love with many years ago, married, and had DC with - that they don't exist and never have existed. I don't think I could ever get over the fact that according to the person I'm supposed to trust over all others, our entire relationship has been a massive lie.

@owlinnahat

*What makes you think her 'soul' would stay the same?

I've mentioned before those who have said Yes have made it all about the genitals, those who have said No have talked about the lies, the gas lighting, the change in personality, the change in sex dynamics, the re-writing of history... I could go on.*

I feel like this argument sometimes takes place between two extreme points of view, neither of which is necessarily accurate. My experience is that the "if you love someone then you shouldn't mind, because you love the soul, not the genitals" is not a very realistic portrayal of relationships full stop. What even is loveable about someone's soul? That isn't how reality works - in reality, big life changes put a huge pressure on relationships, whether that's your partner deciding to quit their career as a banker to become an artist or if they became disabled and needed you to be a carer or found religion or whatever. And gender transition is a massive change that, in my experience, would put a strain on any relationship. The "if you love them you'll just be happy for them" narrative isn't fair and does silence partners when they also nearly always need support.

Equally, I am not very sold on the assumption that transition makes a total lie out of your whole past relationship or involves a total change of personality etc. That wasn't what happened to me or any of the other couples where one half was transitioning. My now ex and I still talk about our relationship, I've never been told I'm not allowed to remember it. She didn't totally change personality - she is the same person under it all - she still has the same academic interests and hobbies, she still has most of the same friends, and the focus on hair and make up settled down hugely over time - it was just a big deal as she was having to learn so much that natal women tend to pick up slowly over time, normally in our teens, and then can discard or keep as we want.

I wish it was possible to discuss the "in the middle" a bit more. I ended up feeling like I couldn't express the issues I was having with her transition while still caring about her without being called names by one side or the other and that massively sucked.

“is the same person under it all” sums transitioning up completely.

I find it strange that TRAs and genderists can simultaneously believe that the attributes and trappings of one's 'gender presentation' are so vital to one's identity and ability to thrive and be one's authentic self, and yet ought to be considered so insignificant by a partner/spouse that transitioning from one gender to the other shouldn't make any difference to how the partner feels about the transitioner.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou I was a teen in the 80s too, but there's a world of difference between a bloke deciding to wear some eyeliner and lippie and deciding that because he enjoys wearing womens clothes he is a she.

I used to really admire Eddie Izzard for wearing makeup and some typically female clothing because that's what he liked. I genuinely think people should be able to wear whatever they want and the world would be a happier place for it ( although I don't find it attractive when men wear woman's clothing, but that's a personal preference).
I do have an issue with Eddie deciding he is a she and should have access to female toilets and always be referred to with female pronouns, except when a meaty dramatic part requires him to be male.

Some women may be perfectly happy to stay with a DH who enjoys fluidity about what they where, but less keen to be the "lesbian sister sole mate" i.e. handmaiden to what used to be their husband.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWS2NVX6VP0

I'd say I'm with Osgood.

@WalkedAway "If a spouse is supposed to ignore the outer package as irrelevant, why is it allowed to be supremely relevant to the transitioning spouse."

Bang on

No.
I'd get him to write me a list of all the reasons why he thinks he's a woman, after living with a woman for 22 years who doesn't do most of the 'gender' ascribed woman things. If you take away all the 'superficial ascribed gender clothing, characteristics and character traits' crap that leaves biology. I'd like him to tell me what biologically makes him a woman, once you've removed the desire to see himself in 'female' clothing. What exactly does he have in common with me in terms of biological sex? He's not allowed to use the words 'ladybrain' or claim that it's an ethereal biological need that can't be put into words.

I'd ask him if he'd really thinks it's acceptable to be in a changing room with my teenage nieces and their friends. Naked?

What would bother me is what exactly does he think a woman is, if not biologically defined? Because to me the rest is a collection of restrictive stereotypes ascribed to biological females. I can't escape my biology for even a day. Or my life experiences because of it. No opt-out available at any stage.
If he still wanted to do it, he'd be on his own.

No is my answer. No doubts.
And he should also have full responsibility for explaining what he's doing to everyone we know, DC's, parents, family etc. He can do the emotional stuff. That should help him to clarify things.

No

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

Obviously lots more no replies than yeses but rather than we're being coerced as suggested I do wonder if it's generational/cultural.

I grew up in the 80s and preteen my bedroom walls were plastered with Adam Ant and Grace Jones. When older, I had a fabulous poster of Frank N Furter from Rocky Horror resplendent in his corset and fishnet stockings on my wall. I had these posters because I found the people attractive and part of their attraction was the makeup and clothes they wore.

I'm sure there is some such specific name for what I am (other than Bi) but I am attracted to masculine looking females and feminine looking males. The clothes do not have to be overtly sexual, for example in the 80s I thought Boy George and Pete Burns were beautiful too.

Given Harry Styles' (another beauty) gender fluidity, I do wonder if Gen Z are more of my mind set due to cultural influences?

I know Eddie Izzard is still around but wonder if he is still relevant or had much influence on millennials.

I think there's a huge difference between being comfortable enough in your own skin to defy gender norms and transitioning though.

Gender nonconformity is cool, Boy George posted an absolutely stunning picture of himself on Twitter the other day. I thought Eddie Izzard was cool when he said "they're not women's clothes they are mine" really disappointing that he's now claiming to be a woman and taking women's spots in politics.

Transitioning is the opposite of that. It is reinforcing sexist stereotypes. It says that long hair, makeup and heels are women's clothes. That women like baking and sewing. That women can't open jars, that they are submissive. It's about talking over women and taking opportunities that are solely for women.

It's not cool.

I do agree that it's very much horses for courses and of course (for those who have quoted me) I would not expect you to agree with my viewpoint. I truly don't mind in the slightest that you have different views to me.

I was giving some explanation of why I feel the way I do and I do realise this differs from the majority of posters on this thread.

The specific question asked was whether I would stay with a transitioning partner. That's what I answered and gave reasons to explain why I felt that way.

I am a feminist, as are my husband and adult children. However, views on feminism also differ greatly according to viewpoint.

Had this been specifically a discussion on the erosion of Women's Rights, I likely would not have posted in the first place as it's such a contentious issue.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

I do agree that it's very much horses for courses and of course (for those who have quoted me) I would not expect you to agree with my viewpoint. I truly don't mind in the slightest that you have different views to me.

I was giving some explanation of why I feel the way I do and I do realise this differs from the majority of posters on this thread.

The specific question asked was whether I would stay with a transitioning partner. That's what I answered and gave reasons to explain why I felt that way.

I am a feminist, as are my husband and adult children. However, views on feminism also differ greatly according to viewpoint.

Had this been specifically a discussion on the erosion of Women's Rights, I likely would not have posted in the first place as it's such a contentious issue.

I thought your post was very interesting. The difference is that those people were gender non-conforming men proving that they don't need to adhere to stereotypes. They weren't claiming to be women. The whole point was that you don't need to be a woman to do or enjoy those things. Frank N Furter may like his fishnets and corsets, and he may not be heterosexual, but he couldn't be more obviously a man. He's a sweet transvestite.

How 'bout that!

He is indeed @DrSbaitso ...from Transexual Transylvania to quote the full lyric.

In response to Janet's onscreen question "what if the owner of the castle is a beautiful women" the crowd in the cinema responds "she is"!

It's all open to speculation. Not really so black and white after all.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

He is indeed *@DrSbaitso* ...from Transexual Transylvania to quote the full lyric.

In response to Janet's onscreen question "what if the owner of the castle is a beautiful women" the crowd in the cinema responds "she is"!

It's all open to speculation. Not really so black and white after all.

Haha, I thought I knew all the shout outs!

My immediate reaction is that as a shout out, it's probably not serious (well, you know what I mean by "serious" in context) but yes, I guess Frank N Furter is never completely clear on it and does indeed come from a place called Transsexual....

But if Frank N Furter really is a transwoman, that's surely not a positive portrayal. I don't think there's been any criticism though.