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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you stay with your partner if they decided to transition?

775 replies

RedRobyn2021 · 08/01/2022 21:06

I'm watching an episode of Queer Eye where this transwoman's partner said they stayed with them after they decided they wanted to transition and it got me thinking

If your partner decided they wanted to transition would you stay with them?

OP posts:
ImmediatelyNo · 09/01/2022 21:54

Years ago, I had a relationship with a person who identified as a lesbian at the time. The person now identifies as a bisexual man.

As that person subjected me to a lot of biphobic opinions, especially toward the end of our relationship, I find the transition let’s me see the the biphobia in a new light. The biphobia was self hatred and internalised hatred bubbling up.

At the time it was one of the things that really killed the relationship dead for me and meant we didn’t stay friends in any meaningful sense, even though that was something my ex wanted very much. They had confided in me about being attracted to gay and bi men as well as towards women, and how they felt unable to bring that up with either straight, gay or lesbian friends and I was the only person they felt they could be themselves around or speak to about that. I felt kind of both betrayed and used when the biphobic abuse surfaced. There was a lot less information around this about twenty years ago.

Since then I learned just as the most homophobic people are usually the ones suppressing homosexual feelings, the most biphobic ones are usually the ones suppressing the most biphobic feelings. I knew a couple of other gay people around that time who had biphobic attitudes who are now out as bi (including one who is much an activist around bi, trans and non-binary rights). So I think my ex’s biphobia was “coming up to go” as they say, and it was surfacing to be overcome prior to self-acceptance. But regardless, I didn’t need to be abused for it.

So, it would depend on the person I think and how they behaved toward me during their transition, the type of attitudes and opinions they exhibited, whether those type of things changed.

WalkedAway · 09/01/2022 22:00

No. And I tried. For three years.

HerbertChops · 09/01/2022 22:18

No. I don’t like sexist stereotypes and I don’t believe in gender ideology. I couldn’t be with someone who does.

Rainbowshit · 09/01/2022 22:21

No. Absolutely not.

A friend of ours transitioned and we really struggled with the change in personality. It wasn't just the same person but in heels and lipstick.

Before we could have disagreed, spoken the truth on any subject, but that all changed. Any disagreement on any subject even not related to transitioning resulted in drama, tears and hysteria. We felt like we were walking on eggshells, it was all very uncomfortable.

There was a complete inability to see the impact on his wife and kids. It was all about his journey and how brilliant it was and there was no empathy for the people round about struggling. According to him his wife was just a bitch for not wanting to be a lesbian and it was her inability to accept it that was affecting the kids.

There's so much more, the porn, the disregard for women's rights. It was hard to continue respecting them.

It was exhausting and devastating for us as friends, it felt like a bereavement. Going through that as the wife I just honestly can't imagine.

BelindaBumcrack · 09/01/2022 22:29

Absolutely not. I married a man - not a man who thinks he is a woman. As much as I love DH I would divorce him if he ever decided to do this.

I see a few posts here about being kind and loving the person not their identity etc which is great if it works for you. But how many men would stay with their wives if they decided to identify as a male? Not many, if any, I suspect.

AryaStarkWolf · 09/01/2022 22:39

Absolutely not

oviraptor21 · 09/01/2022 22:50

@WalkedAway

No. And I tried. For three years.
That must have been draining.

It's a no from me too.
From what I see the whole life of a trans person revolves around this identity - there is no escaping it.
Many years ago I was in a relationship with what was known as a transvestite then. It was hard enough dealing with this - I could never have tolerated it being a full time thing. He is now transitioned so I'm glad I got out when I did.

WalkedAway · 09/01/2022 23:59

"That must have been draining."

It was, in fact. Rainbowshit has offered a portrait that is a fair summary of what I went through.

And I would like to add, for those who talk about the sex, that a transitioning man is likely to eschew heterosexual sex even though he retains his penis. There is a huge difference between being with a partner who, say, has ED but would have penis-in-vagina sex with you if he could, and is sorry he can't, and being with one who has ED but would refuse to have penis-in-vagina sex with your even if he could, and is relieved he can't. You may satisfy each other in other ways, but as with many things, the context is all.

My now-ex, who still wanted to have sex with me (just not p-i-v sex) started bad-mouthing heterosexuality, and not only demanded we have sex only on his termswhile wearing women's lingerie he would change during each "session"but treated any expression of heterosexual desire on my part as a direct attack. Everything we did together had to be some version of what he had decided lesbians do--and, of course, he had as much of a clue what lesbians do as he does of what women feel and are: none.

Anytime I hear that canard "educate yourself" I think: Oh, I have can give you the education! Most people have no idea of what it's really like.

Enough4me · 10/01/2022 00:17

@WalkedAway I had was married to a manipulative and controlling man, I can draw some parallels with what you say, about their needs coming first and foremost. I cannot imagine being expected to play as lesbianism at the same time, I'm sorry you went through that.

Florador · 10/01/2022 00:29

No. I'm attracted to men for their male bodies and genitalia. It's biology, not ideology. If I like a man for his personality, it's a friendship, not a physical attraction - but then we get into Harry Met Sally territory!

Blossom64265 · 10/01/2022 00:31

If my husband wanted to change his personal
style and wear different clothing or have a different hair cut, I could adapt. Some changes might be harder than others, but they are just clothes and hair. They have no real meaning.

If he claimed that wearing a dress or growing out his hair made him a woman, I would have to leave. I assume that is what is meant by transition, so transition is a dealbreaker for me.

Florador · 10/01/2022 00:37

How arrogant of a trans person to assume that their partner would stay, even though it's ok for them to "change sex". If it's all about the person and not the sex of the person, why does sexual attraction even exist?

GCAutist · 10/01/2022 00:43

I wouldn’t. I’d also question the love I felt as it would be a different person not the one I originally met. The person I fell in love with would no longer exist.

I have a relative who started off in a heterosexual relationship that soon became a NB relationship and now he’s in a gay relationship all with the same person. His partner has serious mental health problems relating to childhood trauma and we’re all expected to play along with their lie rather than support them as they face and overcome the trauma. My relative has changed as a person. He was always sensitive but was outgoing and personable and funny and now he’s quiet, talks in a whisper, just seems a shell of the man he once was. He played around with maybe he was femme to try to work out what was going on in his head. He has stayed out of love but I see it as an odd abusive and gaslighting relationship that is causing him severe self doubt and depression. He buys into the be kind crap and so instead of speaking out and up for himself, he just educates himself further. In doing all this he has distanced himself from his family and his parents are terrified about what’s going on. As an outsider looking in I see typical grooming behaviour and if this relationship ends he’s going to need years of therapy to come to terms with the mind fuck he’s been subjected to.

WalkedAway · 10/01/2022 00:47

One more thing:

About the "he's still the same person inside!", which, like the suicide threat or the epithet of "transphobic," is often used as a cudgel to convince a wife she ought to stay with a transitioning spouse.

Actually, no, he's not the same person. That reasoning assumes that the only difference is cosmeticmake-up, jewelry, and a dressbut all else is unaltered.

In fact, the entire reason a person says they want to transition is that the person they've been presenting as is not the person they wish to become or that they believe they are. They want to be someone different--the "real" person as opposed to the, apparently, fake one you've been married to, or, in my ex's case, the one he says he was never allowed to become. Once they transition, they don't want to be called by their "dead name" and they often begin to express a personality that is quite different from the one of the man you married.

And as with the suicide threat, we could turn that around: if the transitioning person is "still the same person inside," then why does s/he need to transition? If a spouse is supposed to ignore the outer package as irrelevant, why is it allowed to be supremely relevant to the transitioning spouse.

IMHO, once a spouse begins transition, the default ought to be that the marriage is dissolved. That would save a lot of transwidows from the pressure under which too many are convinced to stay when it is not in their own best interest.

thisgardenlife · 10/01/2022 01:00

Absolutely not.

Flickflak · 10/01/2022 01:36

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

DontLikeCrumpets · 10/01/2022 06:58

@billydilly

"the girlfriend appeared so marginalised as to be insignificant, merely an audience to her partners 'authenticity..."

Nail meet hammer. An astute and poignant observation.

Tabbycat80 · 10/01/2022 07:15

@RedToothBrush

No.

And I'd hope that given they were doing it to make themselves happy, that they'd be sympathetic to how it would make me feel as if it had destroyed mine.

Its so utterly disrespectful and dishonest to enter a relationship with those feelings and expect your partner years down the line to just go along with it or else they are somehow not loving enough.

Thats abusive and controlling.

You enter a marriage based on mutual respect. I don't think you can maintain that if the goalposts are moved to change someones identity in this way.

When my brother transitioned, the common phrase was 'well he's still your brother' - which missed the point that they weren't. They weren't the same person. They were asking to be treated in a completely different way and for me to respond accordingly. They were asking for me to erase my history and retell it as if I'd had the experience of growing up with a sister. Which I didn't.

I was being asked to be complicit and an accessory to a fantasy even if that came at my expense. Because otherwise you are somehow 'a bad transphobic person'.

The answer is no because of the lack of mutual respect and where the demands lie. Who has the power and who doesn't? Its not women who are told whats going to happen and then have to decide after their partner has already made that decision.

If your marriage terms were as man and wife (which most vows will state in some form if its a heterosexual relationship) then its a contractual breech.

Its not something that gets put up for renegotiation by one party years down the line.

This summarises beautifully why this isn't just about outer 'packaging'.
DontLikeCrumpets · 10/01/2022 07:25

@flapjack
"how do you know that the 'woman' isn't also a charade...?"

That is an excellent question.It is entirely possible that the "authentic self" that is seeking self-expression is a "closeted" manipulator, someone who lived his life as Mr Nice Guy but has secretly wanted to be a puppet-master.

Limegreentangerine · 10/01/2022 07:48

Yes quite simply
I'm in love with her soul not her genitals

WarmForDecember · 10/01/2022 07:49

Not a chance. It wouldn't even occur to me to stay, as the person I married would no longer exist. I can't imagine how difficult it is for those who have been through this.

FooFooFloofyFoof · 10/01/2022 07:50

No I didn't stay. My husband suddenly declared that he'd "always been a woman" despite having been married twice and fathering two children and never mentioning it before. I was being gaslighted and had my personal history rewritten against my wishes. He had recently had another affair (as a man with a woman!) so I divorced him for adultery and ran for my life. I guess it had always been a toxic and abusive relationship and this was just the next phase.

FooFooFloofyFoof · 10/01/2022 08:01

And it isn't just the clothes, genitals and breasts that change. Nothing matters except their stunning and brave journey. Certainly not the children's feelings, never mind the spouse's. Vast amounts of money and every minute of time is spent on their quest. And anyone who asks for some consideration of their needs or any discussion on what is happening is branded transphobic.

LaChanticleer · 10/01/2022 08:27

Flowers @FooFooFloofyFoof

Glad you got away from such an abusive man. Funny how those who say “I’ve always been a woman” never behave like an actual woman.

Whitefire · 10/01/2022 08:35

@Limegreentangerine

Yes quite simply I'm in love with her soul not her genitals
What makes you think her 'soul' would stay the same?

I've mentioned before those who have said Yes have made it all about the genitals, those who have said No have talked about the lies, the gas lighting, the change in personality, the change in sex dynamics, the re-writing of history... I could go on.

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