Emotional affair?

[Tic221]

Just a bit of advice really.
I'm at work and thinking about something I saw last night on DH ipad.

Our marriage hasn't been great and lockdown has made it worse.
I was actually considering if we should continue. Nothing particularly bad but I feel we have grown apart too much.

Anyway last night I couldn't sleep so went downstairs at 1am and DH had left his ipad on the kitchen table.
Opened it (innocently) to browse MN and came across imessages.

In a nutshell he has been speaking to a woman for 6 months.
Hours and hours every day.
Mainly evening time as I go to bed early to be up for work at 4am.

From what I can gather, they know eachother through work but don't work directly together.
I've had a look at her Facebook and I don't recognise her. It would seem she is in a relationship too. He has never mentioned her either.

Last night they sent over 100 messages.
Pretty mundane stuff really
New year plans, work, TV etc.

They've sent photos nothing sexual but there are a lot.

They are quite suggestive on a few but not very direct.
Like she mentions his tight jeans on his photo.
He mentions her dress but with a winky face and says it made him feel flustered.

They have not once mentioned me or her apparent partner
But have mentioned I'm passing.
She has one toddler
We have 3 older dc

I'm not sure what to make of it.
They clearly fancy eachother with the photo comments etc
But it isn't sexual and not like they're discussing the lows of their current relationships.
It almost seems friendly but with a subtle undertone.

For me that for 6 months they have messaged eachother every day.
Including Christmas
And speak for hours.

Is this an emotional affair? Or just an unhealthy friendship?

@Lifeisnteasy

Op, I’m so sorry you’re going through this turmoil.

I’m going to take a slightly different tack to the other posters on here.

Is there lots of chat going on between your DH and this woman? Yes. Is some of it flirty? Yes.

However; it doesn’t seem to have gone any further - no sexting, no suggesting of meeting up. No indication they’ve already met up or done anything sexually. It sounds like they’ve been speaking for a long time and for hours at a time, so I think if they were going to take it to the next level, they would have already.

It sounds like they’re just getting off on the thrill of a bit of chat & flirting, not that they have raging unrequited love/lust for each other. The fact he messages her in the evening almost frames it as ‘boredom’ messaging, for when he has nothing else to do.

I’m not minimising what he’s done - but equally, I wouldn’t say it has ventured into actual cheating, or that he is even that crazy about her.

If I were you I would confront him, send the kids to their grandparents overnight if possible & sit him down with the screenshots. Stay calm & firm that the only way forward is if he apologies and the chat stops, and he actively tries to regain your trust.

But of course that’s projecting my own limits, yours may be different. But I feel a lot of the posts on this thread are quite hysterical given what has actually happened, and Mn has form for shouting ‘LTB’ when real life is much more complicated than that. Good luck whatever you decide.

However; it doesn’t seem to have gone any further - no sexting, no suggesting of meeting up.

I'd say sexting includes implying you're having a wank thinking about her other person and / or want to join them in the shower, wouldn't you?!

Not really no @youvegottenminuteslynn

Although it’s very close

Really not much to add - I am gobsmacked by his behaviour. I just wanted to say I think you’re fab OP, your presence of mind and strength to think through your next steps and get your ducks in a row is well beyond what I think I could manage in your shoes.

Whatever he or anyone else says, please remember that he is the one in the wrong here. I hope you get to handle this exactly how you want to, and that it all goes as smoothly as possible.

@Tic221 another here to say how strong I think you are. But as others have said - it’s an awfully long way from accepting an offer from someone on your house to actually selling it - assuming it even goes ahead (so many sales don’t proceed for many many reasons). I’m not sure I’d focus on that as my “next step” tbh.

Can I strongly suggest people support OP in her choice and use other avenues to project, fantasise or act out.

She has a very clear view, is articulate, reflective and capable.

Please go live your fantasies on another thread.

There are times in our own lives when we simply need support.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Op I don’t think you can continue to eat the messages now They we hurting you more and more I’d be tempted to blow at him now You don’t trust him And frankly divorce is so rice and custody is how is best for you kids You have enough proof now

I’m sorry but I can feel your pain reading then and it going to make you feel
Worse and worse xx

The OP has said that she plans to get legal advice first. And she’s speaking to friends / colleagues to get RL support.

Not everyone is the exploding and confronting type. Some people like to think about things carefully and work out what they want first.

Rosemary I agree
Sorry 😞
I do think however that reading the messages is causing her pain , and I hope she can stop for her own sanity

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Rosemary I agree Sorry 😞 I do think however that reading the messages is causing her pain , and I hope she can stop for her own sanity

I’m sure you’re right, it must be agonisingly painful. But the problem is that not reading them will also be painful, because she will be imagining what they are saying to each other.

Is knowing the reality more or less painful than what is imagined and feared? Who knows ?

Some people prefer not to know the details, others like the facts ( as far as they can ascertain ). There’s no right or wrong way, we are all different.

But the Op has indicated clearly that’s she’s a fact gatherer. So it’s not up to any of us here to push her towards some sort of denouement because that’s what we would do.

I’ve read hundreds on threads here on Mn where a woman has confronted a cheating partner and very few of them have a satisfactory outcome. Very few men confess all immediately, hand over their phones / devices and end their affair on the spot, while vowing to do anything they can to make their marriage work.

They mostly run off to the loo to delete the evidence and warn the AP so they can get their story straight. Then they blame their wife and storm out the house to visit / phone the OW. Some stay away for days until they can construct a cover story.

You sound very strong @Tic221. The fact you’re gathering evidence, seeking legal advice etc while this is happening shows such strength of character.

You said they seem to have a very strong connection, almost stronger than you and your husband ever had - to that I would say, in my opinion connecting via text is not the same as a real life connection. Not sure if this is helpful; I’m just saying it as it hopefully takes some of your pain away.. they’re both in fantasy land, portraying each other as thoughtful/attentive etc but that bears no resemblance to reality I don’t think?

I think you are doing incredibly well to hold your calm. I'm worried that this will be very stressful 'waiting' until the house sale. Hopefully the family lawyer will be able to give you some clarity to make your move sooner rather than later.
Sending you a virtual hug 🤗 you are doing amazingly well.

I don't mean to make light or your troubles OP, but if it's the Celestine Prophecy or similar, you'll be well rid.

Good luck for tomorrow op I hope you get the advice you need. Some good advice on here too

Are you going to speak to him @Tic221 ?

Who do they think they are? They are an arrogant, self-serving pair who feel entitled to shit all over the love and trust of their families. Their lack of integrity is appalling.

Their relationship has been evolving for quite some time, and there has clearly been an escalation. Tic, you’ve mentioned that their chat initially featured their easy familiarity and sharing of life details, with flirty compliments. Then they moved into the sexual realm with comments about arousal, showering together, etc. He added a heart on NYE.

I think he has been subtly pushing the line all along, trying to determine what OW would accept and respond to. He would have been careful to not go too far too soon, for fear of chasing her away. I would now expect a ramping up of both the emotional and sexual elements.

I suspect that @Riverlee is correct that his comment to you last year coincided with their initial connection. I mentioned earlier that he would have been detaching from you to justify his investment in OW. Spouting the absolute phrase ‘You like nothing that I like’ is typical of someone who is giving himself permission to cross boundaries elsewhere. You may be very different, but together you have created a full, rich, meaningful life and family. You deserve his utmost respect, yet he is treating you with contempt to chase fantasy ego massages.

Tic, I really admire your fortitude in formulating a plan and seeking valuable support. I hope you can gather beneficial information this week.

I hope you get the advice that you need. Take as much time as you want before confronting him. Once you do have all the facts gathered, screenshots of their conversations, copies of financial documents, be fully prepared that he will try to blame you for everything. He has already started to justify things by telling you that you don’t like things that he likes and that might have been before he embarked on his emotional affair.

I hope the house move is quick and painless for you. It’s great that you’re getting RL support

I’d open up an Instagram account with something nicknamey or symbolic for your prat of a soon to be ex-husband. Then upload each conversation. Then when you’re ready to serve him papers / sever ties tag him.

Emotional affair 100 percent op and unfortunately for this to end one of them within have to get another job . I have been where you are now and it didn't end well. If you don't say anything now they will end up getting physical

Hope you’re managing ok today Tic. I feel angry on your behalf about this!

Just so you know OP, I managed 6 weeks before confronting and by then I was ready to explode and rip him to shreds . I think you will struggle to go longer than that without it being obvious that there is ‘a problem’

You're doing incredibly OP. I don't know where you get the strength.

@Tic221 what they are doing now is called mirroring I believe. It is a thing that people tend to do when they meet some they like and want to get closer to them so they consciously or unconsciously claim to like the same/similar things to get the other person to think they are so alike. It's not true and not real life so just because they are each pretending to be ideal for each other doesn't make that true.

FWIW think you are doing the right thing, wait until you've exchanged contracts on your house and then let him know. I know you said you were taking legal advice, when you go to see them you need an idea of what your total marital assets are which includes the equity in your property, any savings or investments plus what each of your pensions are worth (these can be a lot more than you think).

Thank you for all your replies. They've been so helpful and stop me from feeling like I'm sinking.
Thankfully at the moment we are quite often ships passing in the night so I feel like this is helping me keep my mouth closed. That said, he did ask this morning when I got up if I was okay. Which he very rarely does. Maybe I'm not being as poker faced as I thought.

They don't actually work together directly. In fact not at all now. DH lost his job at the beginning of the second lockdown.
He has since got another one (different field entirely) and from their messages don't have to be in touch professionally.
In his previous role I think he may have seen her a couple of times a year and have occasional contact.
I would really like to know what triggered it all. But I think I'm tormenting myself.
He would have more opportunities with people he actually works directly with on a regular basis and the chance to build a bond.
From the messages I have read they saw eachother so infrequent and for a short amount of time, that I'm not sure what gave them both the green light.
It is something I keep going over and over.

I've had a telephone discussion with a solicitor and have a proper appointment booked for Friday my day off

My oldest friend works with this solicitor and asked for advice for me today.
Not much was said but the solicitor has basically told me to (if I can) keep it to myself.
They've said between now and Friday try and find anything detailing personal savings, pensions etc and that they'll advise the best way to go forward.
They did say that they thought it would be a long time to exchange so would I consider renting, family etc until then.
Thing is as I said to the solicitor, I suspect if I do that he will cancel the sale.
And I really want and need the sale to go through.

I feel like the more the days to by the more I think I missed signs of how he felt about me.
I also think he might be having a midlife crisis of sorts. He is 45.

I got a significant promotion at work last year (which I'm so thankful for now) and since then he has passed comments about me earning more than him but not in a happy way. I think he feels bitter as for his new job he had to take a cut.
In November this year he told me he couldn't contribute to Christmas at all. Including dc presents because of the pay cut.
Now,. I would almost accept this as it was such a big cut but 2 months before that he spent most of an inheritance he had on a fancy motorbike (that he doesn't need) but had no means to help me with the financial burden of Christmas. Plus, his cut was significant but I still believe he has room to move and save. We are still doing more than okay.
This at the time really upset me and now just makes me angry.

We have always kept finances seperate as I'm quite independent and didn't like the idea of everything going into one pot. I'm really glad now.
So we pay roughly the same amount to bills from our own accounts and then kind of whoever is passing doing the foodshop etc (mainly me of late)

Another odd thing he did a couple of months ago
He has always paid my phonebill.
Mainly because he was the one who arranged it for me and we never split hairs about money.
He pays the whole year in one go.
He asked me a couple of months ago for the money to cover it as I earn more than him now.
This seemed really petty but I just sent it anyway.

I've seen his accounts and they're healthy
I feel like he maybe has just become extremely bitter about me doing okay for myself.

And I still bought his parents, sisters and nephews Christmas presents despite him not paying towards it.
I'm really pissed off about that today.