Dating Thread 220 - where we forget about pensions and get back to dating

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@MayEye i think what @Onesmallstep67 said is really insightful. I wonder if your daughter is worried as i think it's a 'long-distance' relationship you're in isn't it? Perhaps she is concerned she could be uprooted in the future? She hasn't met him has she? I made a concious effort to step back from dating because it really did have a detrimental affect on my DS but he's just turned 12 and hasn't ever had a Dad on the scene, so he was always very curious about any 'bf's i had. I think spending quality time with them is the best thing you can do. I didn't realise that my DS even needs time with me without our dog as he likes to have my undivided attention. So 1 on 1 time especially out in town or on a country walk i find helps my DS to open up and get things off his chest. Has your daughter ever had any kind of counselling at all with the divorce? Just wondering if opening up to someone else she may be able to tell things she'd be uncomfortable telling you perhaps. My DS goes to his first 'solo' meeting with our new child psychologist tomorrow and he know's he can tell him anything without it getting back to me unless absolutely necessary. It's a little scary but at the same time having an outlet for your emotions is absolutely crucial, otherwise they manifest and come out in other ways and seriously affect their moods and interactions with others. You are of course not doing anything wrong though, you have every right to a life and a (lovely lovely)bf! You sound like a really great mum too.

@VanGoghsDog Ahh, actually I think I know what you mean - in terms of him explaining himself for making me feel stupid? I think what he said and his explanation was valid (he also thought through it a lot more and explained it better than I have!).

A small example of how he had - we were talking about the new Corona variant and I joked that I felt like the media were trying to ramp up the fear factor by calling it a scary name like Omicron as it sounds like something like transformers. He said "No, it's just a Greek letter". He did back pedal and joke that yes, it did indeed sound like a transformers villian but I felt called out, and was like "Damn I should have known that". It will be good for me to get thicker skin!

Ofc I went away and researched to find out why they skipped the other letters which was quite interesting reading and reported back to him.

So silly stuff like that... He can be quite blunt which is a blessing and a curse.

Heh, I'd have given the same answer as him, because I know Greek letters and know sod all about transformers so wouldn't understand the joke! (Was it a joke?)
And I'd assume you didn't know Omicron was a Greek letter and that they have been making them after Greek letters. Also, the media didn't call it that.

They've called them that to stop the racism associated with calling it after countries or regions.

No, it was this: "when he's faced with that (which he loves) he tends to go into "challenge" mode and see how far he can push things."

Just sounds a horrible way to behave.

@InABetterPlaceNow
confirmed neither of us are seeing, or planning to see anyone else while we see how things go (I guess we're exclusive now?)

No you're not exclusive because you haven't had that discussion,not seeing or planning to see others means nothing, what about dating sites just for 'chatting', what about women he might already be messaging etc.

I like to post the information below regularly because in this day and age if you've not specifically discussed sonething then you cannot assume:

Nowadays the questions you need to ask to establish things are IMHO:

1. Are you on the apps? You may need to expand on this as he may think having a profile but not logging in means he is off it. Also is his profile hidden or deleted?

1. Is he multi dating? Not multi dating doesnt mean you are boyfriend/girlfriend, it just means he isnt dating others?

Does he envisage he wants to multidate now or in the future?

1. Are you exclusive? This is different to the boyfriend/girlfriend question. Is he chatting/flirting/sexting/emotionally or physically intimate with anyone else?

Some people think exclusive is sexual exclusivity but I think sexting others is not an exclusive behaviour.

1. What are you? Casually dating? Going with the flow? Boyfriend/girlfriend?

Lots in between all those too.

1. For further down the line....what do you think is cheating? Years ago I never thought I'd have this conversation with someone but after my husband emotionally cheated I felt I should and so Mr K and I had the chat once we'd had the exclusive and boyfriend/girlfriend chat. It was important for me (and him actually) that we had similar views on what constituted cheating and what was acceptable behaviour.

Think about what you want now and in the future and your answers to those questions and then ask him.
If you're intimate already then questions 1 -3 are perfectly fine to ask for now.

Question 4 can come later or if 1 - 3 go well.

@VanGoghsDog

Heh, I'd have given the same answer as him, because I know Greek letters and know sod all about transformers so wouldn't understand the joke! (Was it a joke?) And I'd assume you didn't know Omicron was a Greek letter and that they have been making them after Greek letters. Also, the media didn't call it that. They've called them that to stop the racism associated with calling it after countries or regions.

No, it was this: "when he's faced with that (which he loves) he tends to go into "challenge" mode and see how far he can push things."

Just sounds a horrible way to behave.

Haha it was a joke, though I didn't know it was a Greek letter 😁 he's a geek so knows transformers too - yup I ended up learning about the avoiding certain letters due to racial stuff (or that Nu would lead people to think it was a "new" Covid strain). It was quite interesting!

And aha - yup I see what you mean though he explained it much better. It's not in a "break me" kind of way, but more just getting his encyclopaedia knowledge out to test where the gaps of knowledge are? It was an interesting conversation actually because he admitted his insane memory has it's flaws too - there's just so much "in there" that he can be stuck on the simplest of stuff because he has to kind of wade through the other stuff.

He also said it was a default reaction that he's never really thought about before and he's made an effort to frame anything like that a little differently which seems to be working!

@BelladiMamma magnet-man came through and i got my video-call this morning. Short and sweet given he was trucking down the motorway. He looked so gooooood! It'll be two weeks since we saw each other and who know's what next week will bring. So i hope we can get a video call check in when we know it's a while in between seeing each other. And if the weathers rubbish next week i just cannot risk a middnight drive home in the snow/ice! Having to be a wise-old adult is so annoying sometimes. How are your emotions doing today? All over the place? Keeping them in check is just a nightmare sometimes especially where men are concerned!!! The ones who keep us on our toes and guessing are always the ones we want

Thank you @SortingItOut !

That was a condensed version of the chat but this is still really helpful…

1.	This one we haven’t discussed (and honestly my profile is still active I just don’t check it, oops!)
2.	No, he’s not multi dating and we agreed if either of us wanted to in the future then it would be because things hadn’t worked out. We both want to focus on “this” for now.
3.	None of the above, he’s actually been more clear on this than me as he’s been cheated on before and it’s a deal breaker for him. He’s specifically asked if I’m doing anything with anyone else (even via text etc) which I’m not, and he’s confirmed the same. This was also important for me if we are to get intimate so I’m glad we’re on the same page!
4.	Going with the flow, hence the “guessing we’re exclusive”. Labelling anything makes me want to run and I’m not ready for the boyfriend / girlfriend label. He’s the same, “this has potential” hence being happy to pause everything else and see where things go
5.	This will definitely be a conversation to have as we go. Stuff has come up naturally due to bad experiences on both sides but will be a key area to keep checking in on (if things work out!)

@InABetterPlaceNow comms between the two of you sounds incredibly intense and I say that as a veteran overthinker dating an academic… it makes our chats about politics, music, cats, and the intricacies of beard length so as to avoid face shreddage etc etc seem positively inane 😆

We’re all different but I would worry it’s paralysis by analysis and actually you need to hang out and spend time together before having any real sense of whether you’re a fit. How many times have you met?

I don’t like his comment that you’re ‘by far the most intelligent woman he has dated’. It is lovebomby. Why hasn’t he dated women on his level before? I don’t buy comments like that - they don’t ring true and make it sound like he thinks he’s incredibly lofty.

@InABetterPlaceNow I'm glad your chat included the things I mentioned.
You don't need to label anything but you definitely need to use the word exclusive to determine whether you are or not.
Going with the flow is fine but you still need to know if you're exclusive or not.

God, all this talk about laying things out clearly has me thinking I should probs do that when mr story comes back. I'm pretty sure he's not talking to anyone else given he's introduced me to his friends, work know about me, and he's said he's not been intimate like this with anyone for a really long time so is out of practice. He also has said he absolutely hates dating apps and the whole online dating things. I quite like the idea of just trusting he's not doing anythign rather than checking as I feel like asking would make me look paranoid given we both share our daily goings on with eachother anyway?!

(Ironically I didn't want to bring it up anyway until two weeks ago as I was chatting to other men and not completely sure but I think he has been for a while...!)

Thanks @ibelieveinmirrorballs - I'll consider that. Remember it's just a snap shot of the key things I'm pulling out. Honestly it's not all heavy stuff! We're just both quite blunt on that kind of stuff I think and have agreed we won't skirt around those kind of issues because if we don't match on that stuff better to know sooner rather than later? Again the actual convo takes place in a few minutes and gets laid to rest with a better understanding of who the other person is?

Most of our talk is around the hobbies we both like, stories about our kids, what my cats are doing, flirting, his friends, my friends etc. Promise!

I guess we've had around 14 hours in person time and another 12 via video chat? So absolutely, early days. Then text stuff over the course of 5 months (and about 5 weeks properly dating).

Perhaps I'm doing it all wrong. Oh well.

@InABetterPlaceNow I would also say it all sounds quite heavy so perhaps try and meet a lot more rather than long, deep chats.

@InABetterPlaceNow just read your last message. I think if it works for you, then it's right.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs And fair enough on the comment being lovebomby. He said it more as in we did the same degree so when he explains more technical stuff about his job he doesn't need to try to explain the basics etc. It's not that his precious partners weren't clever etc but we're more similar in how our minds work / our experience of the world. It was a direct response to me saying "I feel stupid". But I do get what you're saying.

@InABetterPlaceNow do you live very far away from him? Five months talking and then five weeks dating sounds like a very long build up before meeting! I think when you're chatting on the phone / text etc it's easy for things to get deep because all you can do is chat. Everyday trivial things can get boring and unless you're a comedian you can't keep joking allll the time (or maybe you can) so it would make sense you've gone onto heavier things in that context

@StartingAgain33 We had a date zero 5 months ago, then all hell broke out in my life - stuff to do with my kids then a close personal death. So I told him I had a lovely time but didn't have the space to date right now. He kept in contact (one every couple of weeks or so) to see how I was doing. About 5 weeks ago things had been stable for a while and rather than go back on the apps I suggested we go out "for real". Started off slowly, childcare on both sides meant we only saw each other every couple of weeks to start with but more recently we've been adding in video calls and we'll have had 2 dates this week if I see him at the weekend (if I don't decide actually we're doing this all wrong and say bye to him...)

Ah that sounds nice @InABetterPlaceNow :)

I think it sounds like you've both been pretty measured. It is a bit love bomby to say 'you're more X than any of my exes' but perhaps it's a clumsy attempt at flattery... I think the challenge thing would p*ss me off though and make me feel like I have to perform, which is annoying. You're good enough.

Anecdotally, my last boyfriend did the 'you're so much better than any other women' thing and painted them all to be awful and extremely critical. Then surprise surprise by the end of the relationship he'd put me in that role in his mind even though it was completely uncalled for. So I am now very wary when someone says 'you're so much better' in any way, even though I'm sure it's sometimes true - people hopefully make better dating decisions as they grow older!

I hope you get to meet this weekend and have a brilliant time - and that it all works out..! I think the point I was probably making badly is that you need to see each other ‘in the wild’ to work out what the other is like… rather than saying “I’m worried you’re like X” and him then rebutting that. My last iron was brilliant at telling me EXACTLY what he was like and what his flaws were - but let’s just say our own opinion of ourselves is hardly the objective truth!

@ibelieveinmirrorballs, how big's his dick pension ?
Sorry, just my crap attempt at humour.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs I think it's so easy for people to get into that overanalysis doing online dating. Imagine when we just met eachother and shared time together?! Sounds very refreshing to me.

@Onesmallstep67 bwahahaaa I’d have no idea on the latter (and more of one on the former 😝)

@StartingAgain33 it’s so true. I fight constantly against my need for certainty in dating exploits in a futile attempt to mitigate true risk of getting hurt. But there’s a lot to be said for trying to just be in the moment and have fun.

@StartingAgain33 Thank you! Yup I agree about the comment (and was put in my “red flag notebook” - without telling him!) but I do think he meant well. His exes hurt him so I’m also mindful of that and how it could impact “us” but as he has said it would be unusual to get to our age with no baggage - and he’s actually quite complimentary about his exes in a lot of ways (just not the cheating bits! Verified as they are still with their partners). He’s also said that he knows I can’t know what he might have done to feed in to those situations but that time is the only thing that could help with that (passing comments!).

The challenge thing was honesty I think when I challenged him on it, and he’s dialled that right back now. I think he just didn’t realise he was doing it?

Yup, I’m very mindful of that dynamic - I think all I can see is how things go and keep it in the back of my mind so that if it becomes a running theme I’ll walk away. My ex was all of the above and I did far too much learning about abusive relationships to put up with anything. It’s why I’ve been very direct on these things I think - if it scares him away, no big loss at this stage (though he’s fun!)

@ibelieveinmirrorballs Oh absolutely!! I’m taking my “data” from all angles and would never, ever take him at his word. For what it’s worth, our chats today have just been mild teasing and I’m going to be busy tomorrow. Then on Sat the plan is for very little “talking” to take place though he is going to let me try his birthday mead from his drinking horn (not a euphemism!! 😂🤣😂). I needed to have some of these chats before getting intimate though and he’s respected that. Which I’m going to allow him to have in his favour.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs so my iron's best friend told him I was the first person in his league which I found quite hilarious. After querying this, turns out he had dated a lot of younger women who idolised him a bit whereas I guess I'm a bit different in that I have my own life and career and certainly don't idolise him. I think its a clumsy attempt at flattery and I think some men just tend to blurt things out when they've actually met someone who is a bit different to the past.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs I agree. I am also an over thinker, but it often doesn't translate into actually talking about my concerns or worries with people as I feel embarrassed by them. This can be a positive thing, as sometimes the worries sort of sort themselves out over time (and often asking people you won't get a true answer anyway because they themselves don't know). But it can also mean I'm holding a lot of hidden anxiety which isn't good for the relationship.

Sounds cheesy but I've been doing more checking in with myself when i'm with someone to ask myself how I feel and letting that guide my actions, instead of looking for certainty elsewhere (either through questioning things too much, or looking at a million articles online, even posting in forums can be a bad habit for me looking for validation from others if I do it too much). I've also been doing my utmost best when I'm not with current iron (or any iron) to spend as little time thinking about them as possible because I'm genuinely actively in my own life. Doing lots of yoga and physical exercise helps me with this. And I do feel it's making a difference. I'm a lot less anxious with this relationship and have just had to accept that uncertainty is just part of the process and that I'll be okay no matter what happens.

I suspect a lot of people who share their relationship stuff on mumsnet are certainty seekers. I think lots of people are to some extent looking for validation. It can be helpful but also maybe unhealthy if it's relied on too much, and of course no one really knows, so your gut feel is as good as anything.

God I've gone off on a massive tangent. Sorry!

@StartingAgain33

"I suspect a lot of people who share their relationship stuff on mumsnet are certainty seekers. I think lots of people are to some extent looking for validation. It can be helpful but also maybe unhealthy if it's relied on too much, and of course no one really knows, so your gut feel is as good as anything."

Haha, I feel called out!! 😂🤣 I'm joking (kind of). I think you are spot on, and clearly I'm guilty of this. However, it's been useful to hear everyone's opinions and it's been interesting that I'm quick to defend him - and have been doing a lot of checking in when I do so as I genuinely trust myself at this point to nope out if he's broken / manipulative / etc.

I think he's probably OK which is step one (about a 3 / 10 on red flag status) - which allows me more time to figure out if all the rest of the stuff will work. So totally planning to use him for his body at the weekend to see if that all checks out 😂🤣😂