Dating Thread 220 - where we forget about pensions and get back to dating

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@MayEye Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think when she brought this up before and you discussed it together she mentioned a friend from school had been uprooted and moved miles away by her mum as her mum wanted to be with her new boyfriend and your daughter thought the same thing would happen which you assured her would not.

If I am correct has her friend got problems at home with mum's boyfriend/partner abd she is moaning to her friends about it so your daughter now has concerns again?

As @Onesmallstep67 you need to discuss with her what her actual issue is, it's no good saying she wants you to be single if you and her dad don't get back together.
She is old enough to understand you are not getting back with her dad so by giving you this ultimatum you can't win.

When your daughter is with you do you have much quality time together?
I know when my DD was 15 she was always in her room chatting to friends or gaming so our interaction was limited to parent/child such as cooking food, me doing her washing etc
We would often go to town to shop or out for waffles just for some mum/daughter time and that really helped with our bond.

@Isitreallyme177, I’m not sure how I would feel being asked to help a friend shower , the mind boggles at which bits (literally) he would expect you to wash for him BUT.. I definitely think you need to get round there to see him in person so that you can get some of your unanswered questions out of your head. I’m probably a bit more in the abrupt camp with bella and would be asking straight out why his gf isn’t up for the job. I know that you were a bit floored when he mentioned her and you have worked hard to shift yourself off the secretly smitten bench with him so please don’t let this undo your hard work. Whilst it’s lovely to have someone to occupy your thoughts you don’t want to do this to the detriment of finding someone who can the real thing.

@VanGoghsDog I have no issue whatsoever with paying tax, I do nothing to avoid it at the moment and pay shedloads of higher rate tax - I see it as my duty to society. I’m aware though that when I’m older I need to be careful and will want to stick at paying only lower rate tax, so drawing from ISAs will help me keep within that margin if needs be - plus, as you say, the money is fully accessible now if I need it.

@Isitreallyme177 if you don't mind me asking, how old is this man? What has he done injury wise?

I think @Onesmallstep67 has best articulated my feelings about this too @MayEye. Is her behaviour tipping into something more concerning or is she 'just' acting out? That would be my only concern. What counselling and support have you had available to you? Is there anything that's been helpful that you could revisit? And definitely another vote for getting a hot chocolate/waffle occasionally just to break things up.

@Isitreallyme177 the thing is you now feel wanted again because he has 'chosen' you to help him. And you will now go out of your way again. I just think be careful.

@VanGoghsDog

You put money in a pension to secure the huge tax benefit (especially for higher rate taxpayers) versus deprive yourself of fun in the here and now. You put money in a pension then get taxed on 75% of it when you retire versus put money in an ISA and pay no tax when you take it out.

But why shouldn't you be taxed on income? You get your personal allowance, currently £12,500 tax free, and 25% of your pension tax free (so, on the £500k we're talking about that's £125k free of tax, you could live on that for five years, so five years without tax!).
And then basic rate up to £50k, 20% (using current rules, obviously we don't know what tax rates might be in the future).

I "save" 40% tax by putting in the pension now and will only pay 20% when I draw it, so it's 20% up straight away. Plus the two tax free amounts.

And sorry, but it's not "put money in the pension and deprive yourself of fun now", you can put some money in the pension and have fun now. Split the money you have.

Money you put into an ISA has already been taxed (assuming it was earned), and you don't get 25% of that tax free. I use an ISA too, because I can take the money out any time. There is no tax saving putting money into an ISA other than you don't get taxed on income or growth/capital gains. I use it to avoid having to report on my investments on my tax return, saves a ton of paperwork.

The not living to see it is obviously a tricky one, my family does have longevity on both parents sides and I'm so glad my dad's pension was good and he saved loads and I never have to worry about my mum now dad has died.

Not having a spouse and kids makes my retirement needs different of course.

I'm not waiting until 67 to retire. I have every intention of downsizing my career at 55/56 and stopping around 60!

Pensions is a very personal and sensitive subject I think - we are all different and there is no one “true way”. Having changed careers and after a few years out having kids, I’m actually excited to keep working as perhaps unusually, aged 51 I love my job and want to really challenge myself as I get older.

I think there’s something for me about “life after divorce” and feeling like I’m very much having a second wind. I don’t have much interest in slowing down until I physically have to.

Like lots of other people who had property in London, I also invested in that rather than in pensions but have had to endure years of being lectured on the error of my ways by cousins in my family. I definitely could do with being better informed on the subject however have a slightly allergic reaction as a result.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs I think that’s what I was trying to articulate - no two people are the same with regards to long term finances as we all have different circumstances and objectives, so comparisons between individuals are not helpful. The principle that each individual should do at least some thinking about old age while they are still young is a good one though, and thinking should become more concentrated and detailed after say 50 or youngest child is an adult.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs that's great you enjoy your job and want to continue. I hope I will also want to continue past 60 or 65 in certain capacities, whatever that may be! Some people still have 20 or 30 years left at that point. I've been really enjoying the Guardian series on people who've done things in older life (one recently was a man who took up painting in his 90s and is now selling loads and exhibiting etc!)

Out of interest (nosiness), has the investing in property in London paid off? (you don't have to answer if you don't want to - it just feels relevant as I've bought here now but plan to move out in the future!)

@StartingAgain33 absolutely - not through any skill but just by dint of owning property in London over time. We were lucky enough to have two properties in central London and one doubled in value over 10 years, the other almost tripled over 12. An expensive divorce worked its magic on that however 😆

@JustThisLastLittleBit yes I also think discussion on this subject can make lots of people - me included - feel anxious and “less than”. My mum just retired with nothing other than a state pension and enough to buy a 1 bedroom retirement flat and whilst I wouldn’t want her situation - and it’s been very instructive - I also realise that in comparison I’m in a great position despite having very little pension - I have a high earning capacity, a good career, and equity, and most importantly my health!

@ibelieveinmirrorballs glad it worked out :) Very lucky to own in central London at the time you did. My home doubled in value over the past ten years but I don't think it will grow anything like that quickly now. The bakerloo line potentially being opened close by would help.

I'm interested in what the pandemic will do to prices in the medium to longer term with more companies not demanding people work from offices. I've probably bought at exactly the wrong time (although Catford apparently has good growth potential) but also I just feel really lucky to finally own my own home. I grew up in a council house so it wasn't something I necessarily expected.

@Isitreallyme177

I agree with pps - it just shows he doesn't really think that much of you or value your time?

He's been ignoring your messages asking for a normal "friends meetup" for weeks, and to save him from "bothering" his posh rugby friends or his new girlfriend, he's suggesting you can go act like the hired help?

And when he gets better it will be back to prioritising his main friends, and new dates (and your messages will be going unanswered). I doubt he'll even mention your existence to them, he'll just say he coped himself.

I kind of struggle with low self-esteem/people-pleasing, but also I'd be livid.

@Isitreallyme177 I was on the dating in your 40s thread for a bit. I am sad to read you are going through the same patterns you did with Computer Geek. They are both playing you for your egos. You deserve so much better. Please go and get some therapy so you can find a man you deserve. Good luck xx
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4146851-Online-dating-in-your-40s-part-3?pg=2

@Isitreallyme177 I have just read the history from @SpringlikeBunk and if that's a fair representation then I would absolutely have a conversation with him to ask him what he's playing at, to give him a chance to explain if some of these assumptions are incorrect - but if they aren't, it sounds like he needs to go right in the bin! Who does he think he is?

I have people pleasing tendancies and unfortunately a LOT of people / men will take advantage of them if given the chance. So I just wouldn't here. He's taking up enough of your brain space and for what, What is he offering you?

Is Bumble down for anyone else? I'm confirming a date zero today and don't have his number but it's not letting me send messages

Ok it's up again now thank GOD.

@Isitreallyme177 I agree with all the PP I'm afraid, what's he playing at? Tread carefully and think about what's right for you here (long term, not short term gain)!

@Isitreallyme177 This can't be for real! Is he having a bet with his mates as to what he can get you running forHow many times have you actually met this man?For context I was going out for drinks and meals with a man who told me he didn't want a relationship.I've completely torn my knee and been unable to go out at all,showering is very hard.But I wouldn't dream of asking my lovely male friend to come and wash me!Also,how is he going to work over Christmas,in just 2 weeks time?

So apparently communication works, who would have thunk it? 🤷‍♀️ Another 3 hour video call.

Talked through how I felt about the feeling a bit stupid around him (managed to word it well!) and he said that I'm by far the more intelligent woman he's dated (not in a lovebombing / insult his exes way but in terms of how we communicate and the kind of things we talk about) and that when he's faced with that (which he loves) he tends to go into "challenge" mode and see how far he can push things. I also love the challenge too honestly so I think it's a case of me saying when I feel things are getting out of balance, and he's going to be mindful of it too.

Ended up talking through other things like when we might meet each other's kids (no timeline but both agreed far down the line as both our kids have been messed about in their lifetimes so there's no sense in rushing anything), confirmed neither of us are seeing, or planning to see anyone else while we see how things go (I guess we're exclusive now?), if we want more kids, etc. And ofc lots of laughs and general talking too.

Think it's time I finally stop overthinking (promise!) and just see how things go...

When I broke my ankle I did stay with an ex, who was still a friend, who I'd known for twenty years at that point, but I didn't ask him to do anything intimate.
I had my oldest friend come over for one night and she did help me with the bath, but only to ensure I got in and out safely, and held a towel up while I got sorted (I launched myself out of the bath, landed on the loo and cracked the lid!)..

I know hands is different but he can stick some Marigolds on, or order the proper thing, and get on with it like thousands of people have to.

He's either a baby or an egoist.

That sounds great @InABetterPlaceNow

People have such different communication styles, I know I frequently can get into "overanalysis point scoring mode" (I am RIGHT! ) but that isn't necessarily the best way to date and get to know someone!

Maybe if you both want to "unleash your intellects" you can learn something together like a new language or take on a creative project or get one of those "arty cinema" subscriptions so you have a new foreign film to discuss every fortnight?

@SpringlikeBunk

That sounds great *@InABetterPlaceNow*

People have such different communication styles, I know I frequently can get into "overanalysis point scoring mode" (I am RIGHT! ) but that isn't necessarily the best way to date and get to know someone!

Maybe if you both want to "unleash your intellects" you can learn something together like a new language or take on a creative project or get one of those "arty cinema" subscriptions so you have a new foreign film to discuss every fortnight?

We've both already said we'd like to learn Japanese together! That would be a great way to do the "competing" as it will definitely encourage me to stick with practicing it to "beat" him 😂

Talked through how I felt about the feeling a bit stupid around him (managed to word it well!) and he said that I'm by far the more intelligent woman he's dated (not in a lovebombing / insult his exes way but in terms of how we communicate and the kind of things we talk about) and that when he's faced with that (which he loves) he tends to go into "challenge" mode and see how far he can push things. I also love the challenge too honestly so I think it's a case of me saying when I feel things are getting out of balance, and he's going to be mindful of it too.

It's lucky we're all different because if a guy said that to me it would be Bye Felip.

MrStone had taken to commenting on my biting my nails. I'm not a nail biter but they're a bit shredded at the moment due to my time away wrangling logs for the fire plus the weather at this time of year, and if one peels I do nibble to get rid of the rough edge. And he's commented "what's with the biting your nails" and "are you hungry" and it's annoying. I'm not a teenager.

@VanGoghsDog

Talked through how I felt about the feeling a bit stupid around him (managed to word it well!) and he said that I'm by far the more intelligent woman he's dated (not in a lovebombing / insult his exes way but in terms of how we communicate and the kind of things we talk about) and that when he's faced with that (which he loves) he tends to go into "challenge" mode and see how far he can push things. I also love the challenge too honestly so I think it's a case of me saying when I feel things are getting out of balance, and he's going to be mindful of it too.

It's lucky we're all different because if a guy said that to me it would be Bye Felip.

MrStone had taken to commenting on my biting my nails. I'm not a nail biter but they're a bit shredded at the moment due to my time away wrangling logs for the fire plus the weather at this time of year, and if one peels I do nibble to get rid of the rough edge. And he's commented "what's with the biting your nails" and "are you hungry" and it's annoying. I'm not a teenager.

Hmm that's interesting - in terms of what I said to him, or his response?

That does sound really rude of Mr Stone. I pick my nails too when I'm stressed and while Mr Tux has commented on it, he says it in the frame of "Stop being so anxious you" and gives me a hug... I'd hate for him to make snarky comments about being hungry etc 😞

@VanGoghsDog yeah he was concerned about slipping yesterday so I have a feeling he just wants someone there. My best friend is a fracture clinic nurse, I just told her and she said he needs to man up!🤣