Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH has arranged to spend Christmas with his parents….on his own

277 replies

Jisforjuggling · 30/11/2021 04:51

This might just be the end of us.
The ILs live in a different country and don’t speak English. We stayed with them just before the first lockdown and he has managed to visit twice since (albeit once was for a funeral). We are booked to visit in feb half term. DH wanted to go for NY. I can’t. It’s a day travelling each way to get there and back and I have work commitments that just make it not worth while. I said he could take DC for the last week of the holidays. This would be the first time has has taken the children on his own and he knew I was apprehensive. I don’t trust his manipulative overbearing mother. This was huge for me. DH presents me with the flights he is proposing to take. He has turned this into an 11 day trip which also involves cancelling 2 long-standing holiday plans. I said no. I agreed to 6 days, 7 at a push. He says I’m being unfair and preventing him from seeing his parents. He sent me a text last night saying he has booked to go on his own for a week over Christmas. In 11 years we have never spent Christmas with his family….in his words ‘they don’t really celebrate Christmas’. It’s never even been discussed as an option. I’m considering telling him if he goes through with this we are finished. (Yes, iceberg and tip are valid comments).

OP posts:
ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 09:55

@Darbs76

If you’ve always spent Christmas with your family I don’t see why he can’t take the kids for Christmas. I let my children to India with their dad one Christmas as I’ve had all the other years. Glad I did as their grandfather died a few months later unexpectedly so glad he got to show them his home town / the sights of India etc
@Darbs76 Please read all the OPs posts. 1, he isn't even taking the kids. 2, OP has offered to have the in laws at their house for Christmas and they've always declined. 3, they were planning to go in February to see them anyway.
ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 09:56

@LuneyTunes

You want to ostracise him from.his family. You don't like them, you don't ever want you or your kids to see them. It's convenient for you to have excuses not to go. I bet he's ashamed by your hatefulness for his family when you've said yours live close by and you see them regularly. #preparing to be flamed
@LuneyTunes The thing you should be ashamed of is your complete and total inability to actually RTFT or at least the OP'S posts, before sticking both feet in your mouth and embarrassing yourself on here.
AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/11/2021 09:56

OP

I would like you to read the post by ESGdance that was typed on Mon 29-Nov-21 15:47:34 on another thread entitled Parenting my Husband along with her following post a short time later.

There are similarities here between what is described and what you're describing re your H and his toxic family of origin.

ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 09:58

@LuneyTunes Yes, OP doesn't want herself or the kids to see them, that's why they visited them a couple of years ago, and why OP was planning a visit with them in February! Seriously, you've truly embarrassed yourself. Next time, READ THE FULL THREAD, before commenting.

ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 09:59

@LuneyTunes Oh, and that's why OP has asked the in laws for Christmas many times, but THEY are the ones who declined.

ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 10:01

Is it really so hard to expect people to actually read the fucking thread before they post?

50ShadesOfCatholic · 30/11/2021 10:04

@Margotshypotheticaldog

I would say he doesn't actually want to spend Christmas away from you all, rather he was hoping to manipulate you into going with him. And I would also agree with pp, he probably has a sense of loyalty to his parents regardless of how awful they are. Actually when the parents are awful, the feelings are usually even more complicated and overwhelming. I would let him go, tell him I'm disappointed at how he's gone about it, but I understand the need to see parents. I'd arrange a lovely Christmas day for the kids, lots of fun activities either side. And I'd send him pictures to update him and have the kids phone him. When he returns (if he goes) I'd sit down and talk to him. I predict he will feel very differently about his decision after spending the holidays with his parents.
I kind of agree with this.

I get where you're coming from OP, he's gone about this very twattishly and Christmas is the biggest deal of the year for children.

But from the outside looking in I wonder if he is struggling with unresolved stuff re. his upbringing which is intensified by everyone talking about seeing family over Christmas.

Only you know whether this is a deal breaker but I wonder if it's worth trying to make it work this time.

ButYouGottaHaveASkillJeff · 30/11/2021 10:14

@LuneyTunes

You want to ostracise him from.his family. You don't like them, you don't ever want you or your kids to see them. It's convenient for you to have excuses not to go. I bet he's ashamed by your hatefulness for his family when you've said yours live close by and you see them regularly. #preparing to be flamed

😂 There's always one. Username is apt too.

nextdoorslawnmower · 30/11/2021 10:20

Some people really like to make up their own little stories don't they.

MiddleParking · 30/11/2021 10:20

I think this is the worst thread I’ve ever seen for people not reading it and just making up their own story. Baffling!

OP he sounds like a total dick. The story about him not coming on holiday and then joining you when his tantrum didn’t have the desired effect would have given me the ick. Did it possibly not bother you as much as he meant it to because you’re not really fussed about his company? Also, the fact that he’s made it apparent that he doesn’t like you working is enough to seal the verdict. He’s a dick. You could meet someone who you could plan and enjoy holidays and festivities with without worrying what stunt he’d pull, and whose parents weren’t overbearing and shit grandparents.

MarshmallowSwede · 30/11/2021 10:21

I would just let him go. Send a merry Xmas text and some pics of the kids opening presents.

Then I would continue on with my life. Let the kids call if they want but I certainly wouldn’t be calling and texting him. Let him have a nice taste of life without his family.

Maybe he would come home to divorce papers or not. But I would take this as a signal that he doesn’t think spending Xmas it’s his own children as important.

You mentioned many concerning things so you already know what kind of person he is.

Aderyn21 · 30/11/2021 10:25

Reading comprehension skills have seriously declined on Mumsnet in recent years. The OP has explained why 11 days isn't acceptable and why she is worried and still some posters just make up their own shit to fill in the gaps because they can't be arsed to read properly!

Also the OP isn't obliged to like her in-laws or their country or to learn her husband's native language.

Jsku · 30/11/2021 10:33

If they divorce, OP won’t be able to prevent her H from traveling to another country.
They can’t move, and that is preventable legally. But there is no requirement for the other parent to agree to travel.
So even if the H doesn’t go for 50:50 care - he’ll get a good chunk of time for holidays - and I hope he manages to build his kids relationship with their grandparents, without being controlled by the OP.

It is clear that the OP doesn’t like her in laws. So her side of the story to me at least is isn’t that - her side of the story. It is also quite unlikely that the grandmother is a danger to her kids of 8 & 10.

As to holiday plans that the family had over Xmas that made 11 days travel unacceptable (vs 7 days wing OK) - coming back to years of Xmases spent with her family Vs NO Xmases spent with his family - it’s clear what is more fair.

In the past two years - her H has only seen his family twice. But even that seems to be too much, according to the OP. Despite one of the times being for a funeral.
To me this lack of understanding and empathy would be unacceptable in a partner.

OP - why did you marry your H, knowing that you feel so superior about your country/culture/etc?

custardcreme · 30/11/2021 10:37

You sound so dismissive of him being far away from his family - and I hate the attitude of 'well if you choose to live abroad, those are the consequences'. It shows such a lack of empathy.

I've lived abroad for 24 years now; I originally didn't mean to stay so long (and it's been more than one country) but life moves in mysterious ways, and what with work and then love, and now children/teens at school, I'm not about to pack up and move back.

But I don't see why that should mean that we always default to being here at Christmas, or at any other time, and we don't. Sometimes I go by myself (not at Christmas, but it's never been necessary), more often we all go together, but we always talk everything through. There's no way dh would just "say no" to a suggestion from me - if he thinks it doesn't work, we discuss it until we agree on a solution, whatever that may be.

I also have an at times slightly fractious relationship with my parents and siblings. Nonetheless, it's been really hard with covid, and not seeing my parents for the usual 1-2 times a year, particularly as they're elderly and my father's not well, has been awful - I feel sad and guilty; they miss out on so much of their grandchildren's lives, and it makes them sad, of course it does.

You don't need to have a super close relationship to your parents to miss them, or to want them to be a part of your family's life and traditions, or to understand that they would like a relationship with their grandchildren, even if it's sporadic.

My MIL has stayed regularly with us over the years, and I'm fond of her, but when she asks how my parents are and I say it's hard, it's been such a long time, they never see the children - she immediately counters well, what can you do, you live here, you can't move back. I have no intention of moving back to the UK but her fear of us doing that - and therefore putting her in the position my parents have been in for 24 years - is all she can think about. It really grinds my gears - there's never any sympathy or understanding, it's always - you live here, tough luck.

I incidentally didn't speak the language when I moved here, but now I'm fluent and my children are bilingual. My SIL still makes comments when she's talking - she'll suddenly pause and look at me and say "Do you actually understand what I'm saying?"

There are lots of little things that make it hard to live away from home and in someone else's culture and someone else's family, no matter how happy you are overall with it, and I really appreciate it when dh or anyone else is sensitive to that now and then.

I don't know what else is going on in your marriage, but on this topic I have to say I agree with what a few of the other posters have said. How important are those "holiday plans" you'd made? Could you try and see it from his point of view and be the bigger person? You do sound a little controlling and if I had any sense that my dh would veto visits to my parents, I'd feel trapped and helpless.

If generally you rub along well together, I don't think this is worth blowing up your marriage over, if only for the sake of your children. I think your dh is trying to communicate something to you, albeit not very adroitly.

custardcreme · 30/11/2021 10:42

Also the OP isn't obliged to like her in-laws or their country or to learn her husband's native language.

This is a good example of what I was saying. And this is how my in-laws feel, although we live here. It is expected that I adapt to this country, this language, these customs: that we live here, holiday here, spend holidays with dh's family. Sometimes it feels that my whole background, my identity and culture is fading away to nothing - as if my life started when I moved here.

ClaudiaJ1 · 30/11/2021 10:48

@Jsku

If they divorce, OP won’t be able to prevent her H from traveling to another country. They can’t move, and that is preventable legally. But there is no requirement for the other parent to agree to travel. So even if the H doesn’t go for 50:50 care - he’ll get a good chunk of time for holidays - and I hope he manages to build his kids relationship with their grandparents, without being controlled by the OP.

It is clear that the OP doesn’t like her in laws. So her side of the story to me at least is isn’t that - her side of the story. It is also quite unlikely that the grandmother is a danger to her kids of 8 & 10.

As to holiday plans that the family had over Xmas that made 11 days travel unacceptable (vs 7 days wing OK) - coming back to years of Xmases spent with her family Vs NO Xmases spent with his family - it’s clear what is more fair.

In the past two years - her H has only seen his family twice. But even that seems to be too much, according to the OP. Despite one of the times being for a funeral.
To me this lack of understanding and empathy would be unacceptable in a partner.

OP - why did you marry your H, knowing that you feel so superior about your country/culture/etc?

@Jsku You're another one who didn't read any of the OP's posts, and completely made up your own narrative. OP and husband and kids were going to visit his parents in February! AND, she has offered to have them for Christmas many times, they are the ones who declined. Please read all the OP's posts, all of them, completely, before replying otherwise you just look silly inventing a narrative that doesn't even exist.
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 30/11/2021 10:51

He's very unreasonable.

You've offered him a compromise and he stomped off. You're better off without him at Christmas, sad about the children though.

ShinyHappyPoster · 30/11/2021 11:23

From your initial post I thought your DH was being manipulative but from your later posts, I think there are faults on both sides.
Your 'permission' for the trip was based on using your DC as a spy so you can try, from a distance, to micromanage DH's parenting and your DCs' relationship with your MIL. If you are there, you can intervene. If you're in a different country, you need to trust your DH to parent.
I'm also now wondering if the long-standing holiday plans were agreed with DH in the first place or if you unilaterally organised and booked them.
Covid has made lots of people re-evaluate family relationships. It isn't your job, to remind your DH of how you expect his relationship with his parents to look.
A PP had it right when they said, you both seem to struggle to compromise. I'd be upset my DH wasn't seeing my DCs on Christmas Day but I would be focused on them having the best day possible and, for their sakes, I'd suggest you both go to counselling to see if you can find a way to communicate that isn't based on ultimatums on unilateral decision-making.

Taytocrisps · 30/11/2021 11:37

Your DH sounds very selfish and childish. When things don't go his way, instead of negotiating and attempting to reach a compromise, he just storms off and lashes out in anger - "I'll show her". But of course, he's not only punishing you, he's also punishing his own children. They must have been upset and disappointed when they were told that he wasn't coming on that previous holiday and then very confused when he showed up a day or two later. Now he's planning to deprive his DC of his company/presence over the Christmas period. They're not toddlers - they're old enough to understand that this isn't normal. These really aren't the actions of a kind, loving Dad who always puts his children first and that would raise a very big red flag for me. You've said in one of your posts, "I thought we were in a pretty good place atm", but none of this sounds good. I'm not one for telling posters to LTB over very minor issues but I do wonder about the impact his behaviour is having (and will continue to have) on your DC. And they may also have picked up on the stresses and tensions between you since the subject of spending part of the holiday with your in-laws was raised.

I had to be very careful when it came to my own DM minding my DC. She had mental health issues and, after an incident with my nephew, we realized that it would be very irresponsible to leave her with any of our DC. We could only leave our DC with her if my Dad was there also. I had to have some difficult conversations with her but she lacked the insight and self-awareness to realize that she couldn't be trusted to mind her GC safely. Or maybe she just didn't want to face up to the truth. She'd roll her eyes and tell us we were being fussy and sure, didn't she manage to raise five children without us coming to any harm. This didn't cause any difficulty between my DH and I because we were on the same page - he understood that I was aware of the potential danger and would never leave my DC on their own with my DM. So I understand your reservations about your MIL. Especially if you think your DH would be manipulated by her and might be talked into it/fail to stand up to her if she wanted to do something inappropriate/unsafe with the DC.

As for Christmas, you say that your in-laws don't really celebrate it. You haven't clarified if this is for cultural reasons. Do they live in a country that doesn't celebrate Christmas? Or do they live in a country where Christmas is celebrated on a different day? You said that they have their big meal on Christmas Eve and I gather this is common in many continental countries.

Anyway, you've said that this latest issue is just the tip of the iceberg. I really think you should see a counsellor a.s.a.p. and discuss all of this and take some time to decide if you want to stay or go. It's not a decision you should make lightly and whatever you decide, it will have implications for all of you - you, your DH and your DC. None of us are relationship counsellors (at least, I'm not). We can only advise you based on what you've written in a handful of posts.

dalrympy · 30/11/2021 11:40

You say they "don't really celebrate Christmas" but is it more that they don't celebrate Christmas in the way YOU do.

My family are German. They absolutely celebrate Christmas but not in the way the UK does.

With this in mind - this is how your DH celebrated Christmas as a child and maybe he just wants to again?

Can't you all go?

nocnoc · 30/11/2021 11:47

So it’s gone from him taking the kids to suddenly him going and leaving the kids with you all over Xmas. He’s obviously not happy and making impulse decisions based on dissatisfaction and unhappiness. Let him go. Use the time to think about if this relationship is worth the stress.
Did he want to take the kids without you over Xmas day initially? I think you’re right to say no because how do you know he’s not planning to stay out there and not bring the kids back? Once they’re gone you can’t get them back. There have been other mumsnet threads about this

nocnoc · 30/11/2021 11:57

If it was me I’d just let him go. Maybe he needs the reality check of what spending a Christmas with 80 year old parents is like. He’s clearly not happy so don’t say a word, let him go and see what happens when he gets back.

NovemberNovemberDarkNights · 30/11/2021 12:01

@rwalker

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to spend christmas with his family seen as you have never done it in 11 years. So unless he dances to your tune he's wrong .
But he is leaving his young children who celebrate Christmas, at Christmas, to visit his parents that DON'T celebrate Christmas, When he could have taken his children to visit their grandparents after Christmas!

Where is the logic in that?

Jsku · 30/11/2021 12:15

@ClaudiaJ1

Yes - I saw that she invited them to travel to her country. Travelling to where the grandparents live has not been considered, according to the OP.
And - Op’s cultural supremacy comes loud and clear here. Apparently continental way of celebrating Xmas eve - isn’t celebrating in her book.
As to the tree - GP probably don’t bother as there are no kids around. And that is easily fixable.

As someone who lives in a different country to my parents - I don’t think OP understands or empathises with her H. It’s is hard enough to live far away. And it has been made more difficult in the past few years.
So - even if as a family they haven’t traveled there for Xmas - I can see why he’d want to travel this year.
And February plans may get cancelled anyway - as we all know one can’t plan too much in advance these days as things get locked up at a short notice.

That all said - I do think he is behaving like a brat as well.
Not sure how they come back from that.

ILoveYou3000 · 30/11/2021 12:20

Yes - I saw that she invited them to travel to her country. Travelling to where the grandparents live has not been considered, according to the OP.

Where has she said this? Perhaps they haven't been invited to spend Christmas with her in-laws. Perhaps her husband has previously decided he doesn't want them to. Perhaps getting time off work for them to be able to make the trip hasn't been possible.

OP hasn't said "no not at all" she's said she'd rather he didn't take them for 11 days. She suggested 6 or 7, apparently that wasn't enough yet now her husband is going for 6 days alone.

Also, nowhere has it said her husband wants to take his children to his parents for Christmas itself, or that they've even been invited. His proposed trip was after Christmas.