Thread 219: Dating in a winter wonderland

[Shayelle2009]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@Signalstation I'd be wary of someone who hasn't had the vaccine if they're antivaxx, but also because I can see it really limiting what you can do and where you can go in the not-too-distant future (e.g. covid passports in Wales).
So sorry to hear @PurpleStripyScarf you sound like you've accepted it logically but do take care of yourself.
@Naimee87 best of luck for Tuesday!
I'm in a stressed/frustrated funk and I haven't seen Mr D for a week. I think I'm veering towards @SortingItOut attitude of feeling the distance when I don't see him. Blahh

@Naimee87
Good luck for Tuesday 👍🏻 I'll have my celebratory Yorkie bar ready 🙂

@Onesmallstep67 yea, this has been an issue however it's also the way I've always been. In the two years since I separated I've gone from vulnerable could be taken advantage of but sussed it out pretty quickly to blasé... but all the while with my rather 'intense' personality when it comes to affairs of the heart / lust

@Naimee87 good luck 🤞🏽 for Tuesday. Really rooting for you!!!

@PurpleStripyScarf that's a good way to think of it, you'll be really busy the next few weeks so hopefully you won't ruminate too much x

@Heartbeats0708 When are you seeing Mr D again?
Any chance of a phone/video call before then?

@FabulousMrFifty I definitely believe communication is key - for me, I'd definitely be more worried that it was a problem with me and / or that it means you wouldn't enjoy it. I think it's a far more common belief that unless you can get a guy to finish then it's not been enjoy for them. I feel really reassured by Mr Tux in that he sounds like he's absolutely looking forward to things / will enjoy himself despite him knowing it's unlikely to result in him finishing. I'd much rather someone stopped when they wanted to rather than keep going - I think I'd be mortified if I knew they had! I know it must be a difficult thing to deal with though (for what it's worth, Mr Tux seems to be really comfortable with it and said it in passing as a heads up).

@PurpleStripyScarf I'm so sorry for the way things worked out. It sounds like you've both come to the right decision for you both but doesn't make anything easier. I'd perhaps wait a while before seeing if you can be friends, take some time to heal first and take gentle care of yourself!!

@SortingItOut we haven't spoken much at all this weekend and it's been a rough one for me. Seeing him early next week so I'm sure all will be well then. It's as much my "close down and silently stress" trait as anything.
@FabulousMrFifty do you mind if I ask, how would you prefer to be "stopped", in the moment? If there's no natural end in sight, what's the best way to hear that the lady has had enough/nicest way of putting it?

@Heartbeats0708 that's hard that length of time. I'm a big fan of sexting and generally flirty and filthy video chats as well as deep and meaningful ones in these situations but I understand that it's not always possible or the right thing.

@FabulousMrFifty I'm pleased you get paid something like overtime! DE isn't something I've knowingly experienced but I'm sure with good communication it can be handled. Like others I'd probably feel like I was 'doing something wrong' so talking is always good in these cases isn't it. We need to be grown ups don't we 🤷🏻‍♀️

@PurpleStripyScarf that's a good way to think of it, you'll be really busy the next few weeks so hopefully you won't ruminate too much x Thanks @Bella and yeah it was a nice theory but unfortunately my emotions didn’t get the memo. It’s really got me this evening - feeling very sad.

I'd perhaps wait a while before seeing if you can be friends, take some time to heal first and take gentle care of yourself!! Thanks @InABetter yes I’m sure you’re right. I’m really missing the daily messages and chit-chat. I think I could probably do with some time to wean myself off him - otherwise I can see myself getting stuck in a limbo where we’re not an item but I’m feeling emotionally attached still.

@FabulousMrFifty do you mind if I ask, how would you prefer to be "stopped", in the moment? If there's no natural end in sight, what's the best way to hear that the lady has had enough/nicest way of putting it? Oh yes, golden question!

It's what @InABetterPlaceNow said 'communication'

Men need to know what the words no and stop mean unfortunately lots don't

Regarding saying anything I'd go along the lines of, I need a rest, or can we have a kiss and a cuddle, or even I'm getting a bit sore.

But please talk to your man, he may be to frightened to say anything himself. You can have a very enjoyable sex life without PIV everytime to a finish

@Heartbeats0708 @PurpleStripyScarf
Well, can’t believe I’m typing this, really TMI here,
If I think there is no natural conclusion in sight & we are using condoms, I have faked it before ( there is a muscle at the base of penis you can use to make an erection “flex”), if you are full inside a partner you can “flex” a few times and just pretend that was the end….

Else, if it’s been say 15 /20 minutes and a few positions and nothing has “happened “, I would prefer if the lady says something like “ can I grab a drink,” as this brings a natural break, and that point we can a discussion about time, finishing etc.

As younger man I could go round 1, 2 & maybe 3 with no issues.
As an “older” man it’s round 1 about 80% of the time, round 2 maybe 50%, and that it’s I’m done, nowadays I make sure the women “goes first”, so to speak,

And that’s it, I’m never having sex again in my entire life !

MrHedgehog just left

Lot to process but feels really connected - we kind of thrashed out the “what are we doing” talk.

I actually sent him a Dear John message last night as I was pissed off he hadn’t been in touch since he got back.

and he questioned it and although it was awkward af we came to some key information and he came over.

It turns out he was worried as he is very interested in new jobs abroad (I had a strong hunch) and thought I’d be pissed off (plus he’s only been in long term relationships unlike MissSlapperBunk here) and wanted to keep contact but was worried about hurting my feelings.

I think he’s very conscientious and thinks he shouldn’t engage with women unless he can formally offer them total investment. But he’s kind of in a “finding himself” phase of life.

Plus he’d had a bike fall on the ice and broken his nose which does look like shit Tbf.

I said “poor boy, that’s awful PS do your hands work? You owe me a massage” and we seem to have settled things in a bit? (His hands do work I can confirm)

So it was great, less awkward “first date” and more edgy humour and genuine conversation

I’ve pointed out it’s 2021, I also have my own goals, I’m not looking for the white picket fence, happy to take things date by date and if he gets a great new position I’ll congratulate him and hope to catch up for coffee in his cool new city!

Just felt a bit more “real” and human and friendly tonight so glad he didn’t just take the Dear John message - we had curry at a cheap restaurant and back to mine and it was all very relaxed.

@SpringlikeBunk wow I love this update. Good for you. And good for him for rising to the challenge of the Lieber Johann message and actually coming over for F2F thrashing it out. These things are all so theoretical when it lives on the phone.

@FabulousMrFifty thank you for being so honest. It's a really good insight into it but also I'd say there's a lot of upside for women here. You'd be surprised how grateful some of us are for more attention and getting to go first. After the first flush of excitement getting some time spent on our own pleasure can be pretty damn seductive and keep us interested!

I've sent MrBeau a message stating all my boundaries after a couple of very sweet but sad messages from him. Eg I can't be dial a therapist; he has to figure out what he can deal with and what he wants; once he's figured that out we have to meet or there's nothing really to go on. We don't know each other well enough to figure out if any potential scenario can even exist from sisterly friendship to FWB to a multiple lover scenario

Question to the panel
“Together in Electric Dreams “ which version
Phil Oakey / Human league or, John Lewis TV advert (Lola Young).

Hint, Human League..

@SpringlikeBunk
@BelladiMamma

Damm, those sound like some tough updates..

Dear Hedge or Dear Hog ?

Haha @HairyArsedMan it was one of my classic slightly grey rock word salads. I like to bring a bit of project manager into my Dear Johns!

“clearly logistical challenges which are no-ones fault, sadly the situation is not working out well overall for me emotionally, overall great guy blah blah blah”

I think as two fairly repressed/traumatised types we both grew a bit emotionally today, which was lovely and the main point of connecting and dating?

(Also got cocktail and curry and *, which helps)

@SpringlikeBunk - well done, it sounded like a bit of air clearing was needed.

@PurpleStripyScarf - sorry to hear your news :(

@FabulousMrFifty - well, um, yes. I guess the key is to get to know each other's bodies really well, so lots of practise!

@BelladiMamma - I kind of agree you probably need to get off the MrB rollercoaster, these things don't really add anything postive to our lives in the long run.
As for telling my mum and sister about my ASD and ADD diagnosis - not sure. I've had unhelpful reactions so far from people I have told, and have noticed a lot of negative comments about ASD recently as I'm obviously more aware of it.
My mum wouldn't believe me (she didn't belive me when I was diagnosed with asthma in my twenties, said "well, that can't be right, you never had that as a child", and when I got contact lenses "oh you poor thing, are they essential?" - silly cow - btw, she is also almost definitely ASD as well!) and sister would not like the focus taken away from all her problems, she likes to spend hours talking at me about her CFS/ME. She gave me no time at all when I was put on the urgent pathway for the colonoscopy, didn't even ask me how it went.

I don't care about this, I don't need her sympathy or help, but it's just pointless telling her anything about me really, she just makes her own assumptions.

She recently sneerily asked me if my favourite animal was a or b now, where a is a thing people thought I 'collected' (not the real one, ornaments of) as a kid and b is a type of dog I fostered, but I didn't choose the type of dog, it was just a series of events. So why she thinks those are my two 'favourite' animals and why she thinks it's OK to sneer at me if they are I have no idea. I don't have a favourite animal, to be clear. I don't even have a favourite type of dog.

No word from MrWG about being able to see him any time, I asked him Friday. Think his isolation ends tomorrow. I've called him a few times as he's been stuck at home, to cheer him up, but he's not ever called me.

I'm going to end things with him - probably after the Christmas break just because I can't face dealing with it right now. Not sure how to end something that is nothing but also don't want to ghost/go low contact/fade etc. I'll give myself some time to think how to do it.

I really need to find a way to be attracted to men who are attracted to me and not be of the Groucho Marx school of dating ("I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member").

(gig was great, of course, but was knackered today, two late nights, lots of driving and over six hours standing and bobbing is a bit much at my age!)

@FabulousMrFifty

Question to the panel “Together in Electric Dreams “ which version Phil Oakey / Human league or, John Lewis TV advert (Lola Young).

Hint, Human League..

God I wish adverts would stop ruining my favourite tunes!

apple.news/AI3wf2MvNTI-0ixBQal6Jsw

Bit of late night reading - a good example of multi dating that rings true for me 😊

Can only open that on an Apple device apparently. I'm an Android girl.

Thanks for the goodluck messages from last night! This time tomorrow i'll have already completed 1 'module'... they love an early start here. If any handyman is scheduled for 7 he is here on the dot. School starts at 7:50am and secondary school is 7:30am some mornings.

Well done bunky i think you did the right thing there. A lot of the time or especially for me i tended to tolerate a lot of behaviour that actually i didn't really like/didn't make me feel good. Having gone into 'round 2' with magnet-man and having had the wobble last week with him thinking i'd over-shared on the ever escalating school situation, he actually offered support rather than ran away. A lot is lost in text-lation. But at the end of the day if you don't get those questions out of your head wondering about their answers doesn't ever go away and you get emotionally stuck and can't properly move on. And in your case you managed to get to a good level of understanding and can see where each other is coming from! I know it's risky because you can lose what you really want but just goes to show that you never really had what you thought you did in the first place if it can vanish so quickly! Sadly the 'investment' in the 'relationship' was more likely one-sided. Philosophical ponderings for the morning... 🤩 Now to find my skipping rope and get my tunes on!!!!

@FabulousMrFifty i have learnt a lot from
your posts! Some information is shockingly insightful. How you feeling about your lazy co-workers? and about the one who left? December seem's to just be a nightmare month work-wise!

@FabulousMrFifty always the original, it will be my wedding song as online is the way to go.

@PurpleStripyScarf I would try not to romanticise too much as its really something that would have hugely impacted you both later on down the line. This sortof happened with me last year and I felt he needed to follow his child yearning path despite me thinking how great we both were together. Its hard but not romanticising helped me specifically. You need to be on the same page with major issues.

How has everyone's weekend been? I have my date with Mr Music this week so it cannot come soon enough for us both. I just need to transform from a tired mess into a glamourpuss and hope date 2 is as perfect. I'm very aware it's only been 1 week since we met but stranger things have happened!

@VanGoghsDog

Can only open that on an Apple device apparently. I'm an Android girl.

It's a Grazia article about having 3 irons on the go. Resonated with me!

As for your dear sis and mum. Ugh. The illness denial is actually what my exh used to do to me. It's such a bizarre way of gaslighting you and denying your reality. Anything they don't like they just contradict and say that you're effectively lying. I think the worst occasion for me was when my DD was taken to hospital from the GP's, the GP herself had actually called the ambulance then called my ex who still managed to take 18 hours to come home from a normal work day and then decide that me and the GP had 'overreacted'. It's an awful thing to have to deal with and made me feel worthless and a liar.
Fuck Em I say. And more power to you for searching for a diagnosis and living your life independently from them.

@Eesha I am really quietly excited about MrMusic for you. You've got your head screwed on and I am sure that you're doing things authentically and in a way that is going to keep you safe. Sad we have to say that but it's true!! However as another PP said about their therapist, maybe we don't need to go looking for red flags all the time. I think it's a bit of an OLD obsession isn't it, looking for what might be wrong.

@Naimee87 what is it about them and the early mornings? Does everyone crash out at 8.30pm?! Glad that magnet 🧲 has stepped up as much as he can. He obviously cares about you even if he's not ever going to make MrNaimee status.

@FabulousMrFifty I have to agree with you on the Phil Oakey by the way. Having said that, not all covers spoil the song. Try Wesley Lu's version of 'I'm Not In Love' and also anything by 'Low'.

@FabulousMrFifty Thank you so much for your insight! I'm kind of old school and feel like if I can't communicate with someone that I'm DTD with, then I shouldn't be doing it with them (unless I'm drunk and it's a ONS ) However I know that's in main because of bad experiences around it so I need to feel safe. I think we're all human and as such all have stuff we don't like that happens with our bodies, but it's a good way to filter out the bad ones if they have a problem with that!

Coffee with Mr Tux today! I absolutely can't wait. My current struggle is wanting to jump 3 stages down the line. It's felt a bit hard with all the bday stuff he's had this week, as he has brilliant friends who have spoilt him rotten and obviously I'm not part of any of that yet. He's messaged me every time he's got home though and I think I've had a "Good night sweetheart" every night this week.

I just keep liking him more every time I meet him, and don't want someone else to steal him away... whilst also feeling like I don't know him well enough yet to be anything "official". It's a time where I really have to dig down on my self esteem, know that if he decides to ultimately not progress things the world isn't going to end and just means we found some kind of big incompatibly or there's someone else who's a better fit. Lots of lessons and learnings for me around all this! Part of me wishes I'd stuck with being friends as I enjoy all the geeky / life talks with him so much, as I'd be so sad already to lose that from my life. However I don't think that would ever have worked realistically as there's too much chemistry. Sigh.

Sorry, rambles! I'm looking forward to seeing what he makes of his bday present. I ended up going with making the "survival kit" - 4 of his favourite energy drinks, 2 packets of biscoffs (his fav biscuit) and a stress ball themed on his fav franchise (the hobby he does uses his hands a lot / is competitive so I'll explain its to help if he gets hand cramp / gets grumpy if he loses ).

Uck I'm so definitely in the fan girl / honeymoon phase. Makes it hard to think clearly!! 😂

Morning all. I thought I had cautiously decided to give the Chef another shot potentially next weekend, but I'm thinking now actually no. Overnight he's left me a voice note telling me all about his Sunday, which I find a bit odd in itself as nobody I know ever uses voice note, but that might just be me. He'd asked me how my day had been in an earlier text message, so I responded telling him about my evening at a festive thing I took the kids to at X place. I also mentioned the whole thing had been hard for my eldest, who I'd said had additional needs during our date, so going out of his routine had caused some stress. It was actually a very hard time in the end, but I don't expect people without SEN kids to get it, just for context.

The voice note basically went on about how Chef had done some agency work at X place, told me in some detail about what he'd done with his day (cinema, nothing exceptional), and completely ignored any mention of my son. I know if you don't have kids they are kind of an abstract thing, and before my own kids I wouldn't have known what to say, but I would always be polite if the topic came up. So I did find it quite telling he couldn't even say a polite 'hope your son is ok now' or something, or even just acknowledge me in the conversation e.g 'I hope you all had a nice time'. Just again me, me, me like he'd been on the date. I think with the other things from the date I'd been a bit hmm about, he's just not what I'm looking for. Perhaps someone older and with kids them-self might be more suitable next time I'm thinking about potential dates.

Do you always say upfront 'sorry we aren't a match' to shut everything down or is it more usual to be subtle and to just let it fade away?