Financially secretive?

[Polecat03]

Not sure if I'm being the odd one here, or controlling, inappropriate etc so would appreciate an outsiders perspective.
Have been married 2 years, and raised getting a joint bank account a few times. It's never happened, neither of us have been very proactive about it. More recently I pushed for it a bit more, felt quite insecure just transferring my contribution to DH for savings each month and never seeing the pot.
He's always been reluctant to actually just go to the bank together and sort it out, I thought we'd just have his accounts (a savings and current) made joint and I would close mine.
He doesn't want that. He wants to open another completely separate joint account and keep his current ones as they are. He applied for another account with his bank, didn't mention it to me, and when the paperwork came through my surname was wrong (his mistake) so we couldn't proceed with that. I didn't want to do it that way anyway, I have this feeling hes still trying to keep me at arms length financially and doesn't want me to see his day to day transactions or access the savings or something?
Posting this because today a letter arrived from Monzo - again he hadn't talked to me about this, just said "oh yeah we'll both open one of those and you can link them. That's what everyone does."

What are your thoughts, am I being unreasonable or weird?
I have been stung before in past relationships like this, left with nothing etc and maybe I'm being paranoid and insecure about it. I know being married brings a degree of assurance about this stuff anyway but I can't help but feel off about his insistance on doing it this way.

I’ll repeat again you need to see a break down the fact he is refusing to show show you indicates something is wildly wrong.

It’s a simple, reasonable request

Married 27 years and we've never had a joint bank account. It works for us. But we also save separately and I'd want my savings contribution back to put in my own account in your position OP.

I'd carry on transferring money for bills ( as long as you know the ount is right).

Stop transferring savings, save them yourself. Demand to see that account and if he doesn't show you or the amount isn't right dead your money back. Then if ok get it changed to joint

If that doesn't happen, dealbreaker

He says he doesn’t want you to police his spending but he is policing yours! You are giving him your contribution for bills (fair enough) but he then has your savings and has done what with them?

Ask him to give you back what you’ve put into the savings pot and open a new savings account just for you. I’ll be very curious to see what he says to that.

We’ve been married for many years and like others have a joint account and credit card for family expenses in addition we have separate current and savings accounts. That works for us and actually there isn’t a one size fits all when it comes to finances. But you should be very concerned about the lack of transparency and what he’s actually done with your savings!

I’d stop transferring anything to accounts I don’t have access to until then savings are joint. Say he shows no signs of giving you access to your savings, so you are going to put all your salary into your own savings until you’ve got the amount you’d saved back. Be clear that he gives you no reason to trust you, only reasons not to, and you have to rely on his actions to form an opinion. His actions tell you he is taking your money and not giving it back.

I'm afraid it is naive. Get your money back and save separately. In the event this prompts him to be more open, I would refuse, and keep money separate. He's dodgy.

To clarify a technical point regarding bank accounts, you can't "get his bank accounts changed to joint names" That wouldn't happen. You can change a name on an existing bank account for example due to marriage, which I did, I was still the same person but just name changed and I provided our marriage certificate to show that. Banks are pretty hot on this stuff due to fraud/money laundering.

You have to set up a new joint account in both names, with a new account number. You could use this to deposit funds for joint bills. You also need him to agree to a joint savings account and say you're willing to deposit funds into the joint account, but you're not giving him money any more, it can be a standing order into the new joint account when set up. If he isn't willing to do that, then you're building a clear picture of the mindset of someone who's meant to be your partner in life.

Your DH sounds decidedly shifty - making the assumption that you'd "police" his spending is pretty low-down.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of trust between you in the relationship and this joint accounts thing is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.

@daisychain01

To clarify a technical point regarding bank accounts, you can't "get his bank accounts changed to joint names" That wouldn't happen. You can change a name on an existing bank account for example due to marriage, which I did, I was still the same person but just name changed and I provided our marriage certificate to show that. Banks are pretty hot on this stuff due to fraud/money laundering.

You have to set up a new joint account in both names, with a new account number. You could use this to deposit funds for joint bills. You also need him to agree to a joint savings account and say you're willing to deposit funds into the joint account, but you're not giving him money any more, it can be a standing order into the new joint account when set up. If he isn't willing to do that, then you're building a clear picture of the mindset of someone who's meant to be your partner in life.

Your DH sounds decidedly shifty - making the assumption that you'd "police" his spending is pretty low-down.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of trust between you in the relationship and this joint accounts thing is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.

That is complete bollocks. DP has a Natwest account and added my name to it to make it a joint account. Same account number as before.

@daisychain01

To clarify a technical point regarding bank accounts, you can't "get his bank accounts changed to joint names" That wouldn't happen. You can change a name on an existing bank account for example due to marriage, which I did, I was still the same person but just name changed and I provided our marriage certificate to show that. Banks are pretty hot on this stuff due to fraud/money laundering.

You have to set up a new joint account in both names, with a new account number. You could use this to deposit funds for joint bills. You also need him to agree to a joint savings account and say you're willing to deposit funds into the joint account, but you're not giving him money any more, it can be a standing order into the new joint account when set up. If he isn't willing to do that, then you're building a clear picture of the mindset of someone who's meant to be your partner in life.

Your DH sounds decidedly shifty - making the assumption that you'd "police" his spending is pretty low-down.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of trust between you in the relationship and this joint accounts thing is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.

This is nonsense. I've changed more than one bank account to joint names, with different banks, so it most definitely can be done.

This however is the least of OPs issues.

OP for the love of god, stop giving him 'savings' money that you do not have access to. Why on earth are you doing that?

My husband added me to his current account when I gave up work.

Extremely straightforward 25 years ago.

He doesn't want you to 'police' his spending so he takes money off you that you can't access or check on?

How can he think that's OK and fair? The same rules should apply to you both of course. So if he wants to keep everything separate, he needs to pay you back all that you've paid to him, and keep it separate from hereon.

But the bigger issue is why is he so secretive? Why did he apply for an account in your name without talking to you? Why doesn't he want a proper joint account? Why won't he make the savings account joint, when you are paying in to it?

He is either covering something up or is financially abusive.

He seems to think he has more rights to your finances than you have.

In my case, all income goes to a joint account. All household costs are paid from that account. We also pay ourselves an (equal) amount, in to individual accounts, each month as 'spending money'. It's up to us how we spend that money.

Ok so first stop all payments for both savings AND contributions.

Calcuate how much he's had from you for 'savings'.

Tell him you're
a. stopping giving him savings - you'll keep your own in your own account thanks
b. tell him he can either return all savings from you so far, or use them to pay your contributions to bills until they are all gone - then you will start contributing again.

:)

This needs a BIG sort out.

He's either hiding something, or quite frankly he's the kind of man you don't want to stay in a marriage with or especially have a child with. If finances aren't truly joint, then it can't work ok.

Fine to keep your own account for play money.

Not fine to want to restrict access to joint assets or have ultimate control.

He doesn't get the final say in how joint finances are managed in your marriage. He doesn't get to say 'no'.

Show him by now stopping all contributions until this is sorted that he doesn't get to be in charge.

I hate to say it but I don't think your marriage is going to last. He is not a decent man. You are transferring money to savings yet you can't access or even see the account. You really need to do everything possible to sort things out now, ready for the inevitable.

Open a joint account for the bills and each pay the required amount in every month and then tell him to transfer your proportion of the savings back to you. You can then open your own savings account.

How long have you actually been together? Do you know what he earns?

DH and I have had a joint account since we bought our first house, we each have our own accounts which our salaries are paid into - the joint account covers ALL bills (every single one including savings transfer!) and we both pay into there, the remainder is our own to do with as we please.

I completely agree you should have sight of and access to, the savings account that you're contributing to. Sight of it isn't enough as if it's in his own name only, it's legally his money and he can spend it all if he wants.

His day to day spending of his own money - I'm more inclined to agree with him that it's okay to have a separate account each as well as a joint one.

Ive always had my own current account & my own money for day to day living to avoid arguments. I work hard and if I want to splash out on a designer bag or ridiculously expensive face cream, that's nobody else's business. DP and I have quite different spending patterns and thoughts on money. He'd happily spend £400 on a golf club but doesn't understand me spending £30 on foundation. We have the same "allowance" every month after bills and don't discuss how it's spent

‘Of course he says it's nothing like that, he just wants his independence and doesn't want me to police his spending.’

But he’s happily taking money from you without letting you see the account. If he was that bothered about financial independence he’d want you to be saving your own money, and having a joint account you both saw where you both contributed to bills etc. His argument makes no sense whatsoever - other than the policing his spending - huge red flag! Why would he think you would police his spending? What he actually means is SEE his spending.

Insist today he shows you the accounts that you contribute to and how much of the money you gave him he has actually saved. I bet he won’t show you.

*‘Of course he says it's nothing like that, he just wants his independence and doesn't want me to police his spending.’
*
This is fine IMO and I wouldn't have an issue.

However, the savings account should be joint

As an aside, put a couple of the bills in your name, you never know when you might need a document for ID purposes.
This should lead to the opening of a joint account and all bills can be paid out of there.
Don't send your savings to him, there's no reason to do this and makes me uneasy that he's not being completely open with you.

you can't "get his bank accounts changed to joint names" That wouldn't happen

Yes you can, and vice versa too.

I see nothing wrong with opening a new current account in joint names and keeping your own accounts, as he seems to be suggesting.

However, there is EVERYTHING wrong with you just handing him money for savings. Savings which you cannot even see and don't have any access to. Stop doing that RIGHT NOW. Insist that the savings account (assuming it even exists) is made joint immediately so that you can see where your money has been going and how it is doing.

If none of that is forthcoming then demand your past contributions back and save them yourself (without giving him access). If he won't even do that then assume that either no such savings account exists or that he is squirrelling away your money for himself.

You've been rather naive up until now, I'm afraid. The blinkers need to come off.

@Livandme

As an aside, put a couple of the bills in your name, you never know when you might need a document for ID purposes. This should lead to the opening of a joint account and all bills can be paid out of there. Don't send your savings to him, there's no reason to do this and makes me uneasy that he's not being completely open with you.

This. You have no proof that you are contributing to bills and nothing in your name. Your husband is being weird and secretive and you are being far too passive.

Set aside a day and tackle it: a joint account for bills; bills in joint names; your own savings account.

Do you own or rent as is your name on the mortgage/tenancy?

We have separate bank accounts so that my husband doesn't police my spending. And it works. But I do not transfer money to him into an account in his name only for joint savings. No way.

You’ve been transferring money to him for over 2 years for “savings” but you’ve never had sight of these savings, you don’t actually know they exist?

More fool you.

I hope he’s not a gambler.

Write that money off as a lesson learned and stop transferring anything to him, as of today.

@Salayes

‘Of course he says it's nothing like that, he just wants his independence and doesn't want me to police his spending.’

But he’s happily taking money from you without letting you see the account. If he was that bothered about financial independence he’d want you to be saving your own money, and having a joint account you both saw where you both contributed to bills etc. His argument makes no sense whatsoever - other than the policing his spending - huge red flag! Why would he think you would police his spending? What he actually means is SEE his spending.

Insist today he shows you the accounts that you contribute to and how much of the money you gave him he has actually saved. I bet he won’t show you.

I intend to do this tonight when he gets home from work - laptop in front of him and ask to see, at least, the savings account.

I'll also be asking that we go over all the bills and direct debits so I can see exactly what is what.

I've phoned his bank today and they said its very simple to add someone to an account, there is no need to open a new account entirely.

They've sent me an email with links to begin that process, so that will be what I raise next once I've seen the savings and outgoings.

Really do want to steer us back towards a healthy and normal arrangement - I know it's cliche because I read it here all the time myself, but we DO have an excellent marriage otherwise.

He's never behaved in any 'dodgy' way that gives me indications that there could be illicit reasons or motives behind the finances being this way - I do think the set up could just have ended up this way due to laziness on both our parts, and a kind of selfishness I see in most men (not saying this is okay but depending on how this goes tonight it can perhaps be attributed to ignorance rather than malice).

I've been complacent about the finances as I trust him completely, but understand that can sail dangerously close to naivety.

Will definitely be raising what lots of you have pointed out about the hypocrisy in me not "policing" his spending but him essentially holding all the cards. I suppose its also never concerned me hugely before because I've also felt my contribution was very measly, not being a high earner, a bit ashamed I wasn't putting a lot into the savings and don't have a great career. So thought it's not loads of money, it doesn't matter THAT much.

Obviously my mindset is changing and I see its about the principle and equality, since its bothered me more recently. Sorry this post is a bit all over the place, I'm replying via mobile.

Not a gambler.

We rent, its armed forces property, the rent comes directly out his salary.