Bad feeling about my earnings in marriage

[yellowpdfdocuments]

Can anyone help me think about this. When I met my husband I was on an average/low salary. He is a decade older and earnt more. I then had two kids and had a year of leave with each, then went back part time. Meanwhile his earnings have skyrocketed. Now, post pandemic I am left in a very uncertain position on a contract that soon ends while he is at his peak. The pandemic was hard for me: childcare, bereavement and serious illness. I am applying for jobs.

There’s a mood in the marriage that I’ve seriously let the side down with my career/earnings. That I am earning too little, that I’ve made us poor.

What do you think? I did choose to look after the kids part time (this has paid off massively in terms of how they are) and I am also just younger, less ambitious, less capable of stress and endurance jobs….

I’m trying to work out of my husband is being unfair making me feel like this. Thanks.

@Fireflygal

plenty of dual working families have successful careers

Don't be silly...childcare can only be outsourced to a degree..nurseries open & close at certain times. It needs both parents to pull their weight around childcare. I know what a full on career takes, do you? We're not talking about middle management working in the council 9-5pm. These are big jobs with global responsibilities- teams in multiple timezones so hours can't workaround standard childcare.

Who takes care of the children when you get the call from nursery, who's career take precedence when both have to travel. I've been there.. it's only doable if
1.childcare is split evenly

1. one parent steps down
2. Both parents have more 9-5 jobs

All the high earning family men, know that their lives are only possible because someone else is picking up the slack. To pretend otherwise is daft

This just isn't true. Dual income "high earning couple" here. You just get a full time nanny (30-35k) or combine nursery and nanny.

Not de-valuing SAHM role, but if you're a high earner it really isn't that hard to outsource. Cleaner is maybe 3k/year and gardener something similar.

On this basis, OP husband may be restful as his colleagues may also have wives who earn a lot and therefore have a much better /wealthier lifestyle than he can give his family e.g. private school, multiple foreign holidays etc etc

A FT nanny in London is 30k. SAHMs constantly talk as if women (& men) who work full time don't also cook and clean their houses. Most the "home" stuff really isn't rocket science!

One FT nanny is not the deal that the OP's husband has had.

He's had the equivalent of:

• A full-time day nanny.
• A full-time night nanny.
• A weekend nanny.
• Someone to cover emergency childcare.
• A housekeeper.
• A PA to manage family life.

He's never had to worry about rushing to nursery to pick up the kids or doing housework. Or getting up in the night with them or a child being ill. Or working extra hours at the weekend. Because he's had 'staff' (the OP) on hand to cover everything at the drop of a hat.

To put the OP in the position he's been in (and give her his professional advantages) would require a lot more than one full-time nanny.

You need to pay for a hell of a lot more than one full-time nanny if you want to entirely opt out of your childcare and domestic duties and still have everything run smoothly without you.

Most the "home" stuff really isn't rocket science!

No it isn't. But paying someone to do it for you is surprisingly expensive.

My DH was amazed when I told him it would cost us over £600 to get a temporary 24/7 nanny to cover a 3-day conference I had away from home unless he magically found he could do nursery drop-offs in the morning and leave work early enough to do pick-ups, bath and dinner in the evening.

Interesting thread.

We are both professionals however DH earning potential was greater than mine as were his ambitions. He did say if he is going to be successful in his career then I need to support him by picking up what needs doing at home. I was more than happy to take a back seat and work part time. And I feel he is the one who missed out on the kids and I was lucky he was able to enable me to do that.

However once the kids are older and I have to add mature enough - we ensured we live in a place where they can get to school and most of the activities on their own so we both have the freedom to work.

I will never earn half of what he does as we just have different professions. But I am exploring ways in which I can generate more income for us as a family. However I know my income will just pay for the extras such as holidays or one set of school fees . It's just the way it is. You have to compare like with like

just younger, less ambitious, less capable of stress and endurance jobs

Maybe he is tired and stressed and is now finding that he’s running out of endurance? I’ve been a high flyer for 30 years in my job. I find in my early 60s I’m getting tired and deeply exhausted.

It’s worth having an open conversation about this - while you need to know your worth, and what you’ve done in terms of family income , as other posters have pointed out. But you might listen to how he really feels about the stress of keeping on earning at a high level.

@Gliderx

A FT nanny in London is 30k. SAHMs constantly talk as if women (& men) who work full time don't also cook and clean their houses. Most the "home" stuff really isn't rocket science!

One FT nanny is not the deal that the OP's husband has had.

He's had the equivalent of:

• A full-time day nanny.
• A full-time night nanny.
• A weekend nanny.
• Someone to cover emergency childcare.
• A housekeeper.
• A PA to manage family life.

He's never had to worry about rushing to nursery to pick up the kids or doing housework. Or getting up in the night with them or a child being ill. Or working extra hours at the weekend. Because he's had 'staff' (the OP) on hand to cover everything at the drop of a hat.

To put the OP in the position he's been in (and give her his professional advantages) would require a lot more than one full-time nanny.

You need to pay for a hell of a lot more than one full-time nanny if you want to entirely opt out of your childcare and domestic duties and still have everything run smoothly without you.

But it doesn't sound like he asked for this! OP said she really wanted to do it...

If she had a full time job they would both still look after their kids at the weekend, evening & holidays. Also, I find men do less when they have a SAHW whose primary contribution is house stuff. You guys need to speak to more dual income couples! It really isn't impossible, otherwise 1000s wouldn't do it.

Being the sole high earner can be burdensome and stressful, especially if you didn't agree it in advance, that's what many women are overlooking here. You also can't risk picking up kiddie sick days because it would be a massive travesty for the family if you lost your job v. cushion of two incomes.

A FT nanny in London is 30k. SAHMs constantly talk as if women (& men) who work full time don't also cook and clean their houses. Most the "home" stuff really isn't rocket science!

Really? A full time nanny in London is 30k including employers national insurance and on costs, holiday and sickess cover? And this is for the 60 hours a week you’d need to cover most professionals working hours plus London commute?

That’s amazing , please tell me where I can get one of these nannies?

And I don’t know any high earning men who cook and clean their houses and spend all evenings and weekends doing childcare and household admin, DIY, gardening etc .

Again I’d love one of these - where can I find one?

Actually I’ve just checked the nanny tax website to find one of these angels. But apparently only a live in nanny does 60 hours a weeks. Which costs a total of £47,200 K a year ( plus all the costs of housing and feeding nanny).

This is £800 a week gross, which is £41,600 PA
Plus £4,500 employers NI PA
Plus £1,000 employers pensions pA

A daily nanny for 60 hours a week would command a higher salary of £900 a week .

And of course there’s still all the cleaning, laundry, shopping and cooking (non child related ) to cover.

If she had a full time job they would both still look after their kids at the weekend, evening & holidays. Also, I find men do less when they have a SAHW whose primary contribution is house stuff. You guys need to speak to more dual income couples! It really isn't impossible, otherwise 1000s wouldn't do it.

Or alternatively the OP would rush from her full-time job to do nursery pick-up, ruin her career by taking all the sick days, do dinner, bath and bed every night, look after the kids every weekend, do all the housework and generally run herself into the ground doing 2 jobs. While her workaholic husband focuses on his one job and waltzes in asking where dinner is. This is the reality for many women who work full-time. Because they need jobs that 'fit' with nursery pick-up (and I'm talking 6pm not 3.30pm), they're still working less than their husbands and all the domestic shit still falls on them.

@Double3xposure. Yes, it's just not realistic, is it? You can't opt out of any responsibility for childcare/housework simply by hiring an (expensive) full-time nanny.

As a condition of going back to work full-time in a demanding job, the OP should demand the same package that her husband has had all these years - i.e. zero responsibility for housework or childcare. Her husband can organise the nanny and cleaner around his work schedule. It's her turn to focus on her career.

Sorry OP, he is unfair: a very high earner and yet YOU have made the household poor?! He probably resents the pressure at his job and is taking that out on you. He is making you feel crap about yourself in the process, which is horrible. Do not listen. I guarantee you that should you take him at his word and build a good career over the next few years, he will resent that even more. I have seen it happen. Nip his attitude in the bud or spare yourself a decade of stress and leave...

Basically, if you want a career do it for you, because that's what you want, not because he bullied you into it. He won't be grateful either way.

I do think though the OP need to acknowledge that her DH has enabled her to do what she WAANTED to do - which was stay at home and work part time round the kids. And in any case due to her limitations which she recognised, she was never going to match his earnings anyway. However she is willing to live frugally which he also has to acknowledge .
So his career ambitions were not for the sake of the family as they could have lived on a lot less

The pay-off of women stepping up at work was meant to be men stepping up at home. This is the bit we haven't got quite right as a society yet. As a result, there are many women who work full-time and then come home and do a 'second shift' of housework and childcare without much help from their partners.

Word. My DH was also resentful of me working only PT. I went back to full time this fall when my youngest turned 3, and guess what? I am still doing all the morning parenting, all the evenings, meal prep, kids appointments, arranging for autistic kiddo's therapies and what's worse, all the night time parenting for a child who has never slept well. DH sleeps in an another room so his sleep is not bothered. I have a demanding specialist job in IT and some days I am so tired I don't remember if I've performed a task already or not.

So he looked after the kids 50% did he? if he did not then he can get fucked basically.

Children need their mum not strangers like mine was - I was a single parent and had to work full time. I had no choice.
A woman's role in child rearing has been undermined for years and mums made to think their contribution worthless.
My adult son said he'd have given anything to have been with me all the time and not farmed out, he realises it was out of necessity but we both missed out on so much time together and we will never get that time back again.
Money isn't everything, love and a loving, supportive family is everything.
If your "D"h had had to take sick days off all the time, arrange everything and do everything with the kids and cook and clean and do all the life admin and see to all the children's emotional and practical needs there is no way he's have been able to concentrate properly on his career. He would have failed.

@yellowpdfdocuments

That’s right ancientgran, but you’re imagining my DH’s position is the default that I’ve (unauthorisedly) varied from, and I don’t think that’s necessarily so. We could afford all this and fwiw he agreed at the time,

OK, different if he agreed. I didn't get that impression from earlier posts.

It's a bit like buyers remorse then, he agreed to something he now regrets, well we all do that at times but it can't be changed now.

@DuckDuckNo

The pay-off of women stepping up at work was meant to be men stepping up at home. This is the bit we haven't got quite right as a society yet. As a result, there are many women who work full-time and then come home and do a 'second shift' of housework and childcare without much help from their partners.

Word. My DH was also resentful of me working only PT. I went back to full time this fall when my youngest turned 3, and guess what? I am still doing all the morning parenting, all the evenings, meal prep, kids appointments, arranging for autistic kiddo's therapies and what's worse, all the night time parenting for a child who has never slept well. DH sleeps in an another room so his sleep is not bothered. I have a demanding specialist job in IT and some days I am so tired I don't remember if I've performed a task already or not.

LTB - lazy shit.

@Lady08 Well clearly they can’t both stay at home at the same time, common sense tells you that, surely hmm
If they both wanted to spend time with their child and take it in turns in terms of the SAHP role, then one parent working three days, whilst the other works two would be the most obvious answer.

Well that's the point I have been making, one partner can't unilaterally decide that they aren't responsible for the finances because then both could make that decision and where does that leave them. It needs to be discussed and agreed.

The OP has now said it was agreed.

@MarshmallowSwede

You have taken him for a ride? By raising his children and keeping his home?

Men like this should be cursed with their penis falling off and balls shriveling up to raisins.

The audacity of a man who has been able to progress in his career because he has had childcare from his wife never ceases to amaze me.

Your husband sounds like an asshole.

I mean I couldn't put any better How are these kind of men, still thinking like this. It's shocking

@yellowpdfdocuments

Yes, I am doing so now. I’ve realised we might not be quite the team I thought we were.

But you knew you weren't a team from the start, you both wanted a different sort of team. Nevertheless you went ahead with having children. Why are you surprised that he is resentful?

@RantyAunty

There's more to it than just providing childcare.

Men in this situation are able to get up shower and leave for work and not have to think about anything else. They want to stay and have drinks after work or go on 2-hour bike rides, they just do it.
They don't have to arrange anything or ask permission.

They come home to a hot meal they didn't have to prepare, clean clothes in the closet, fridge full, house clean. They don't have to give any of it a single thought.
School isn't ringing them about a sick child. They don't have to think about getting children dressed, fed school, homework, activities.

They want to spend weekends playing football or golf. They just do it.

Having a wife who stays at home provides them a lifestyle where they can just think about their job and then whatever they want to do is much more than having a nanny.

They can reap the benefits and praise for having the family in nice photos on his desk. He picks up DC from school or goes to watch them play a sport a few times, he's given so much praise, he's practically a saint of a father.

Yup

But you knew you weren't a team from the start, you both wanted a different sort of team. Nevertheless you went ahead with having children. Why are you surprised that he is resentful?

SHE went ahead with having children? Is this the immaculate conception all over again ? Hold the front page!

[quote ancientgran]**@Lady08* Well clearly they can’t both stay at home at the same time, common sense tells you that, surely hmm*
If they both wanted to spend time with their child and take it in turns in terms of the SAHP role, then one parent working three days, whilst the other works two would be the most obvious answer.

Well that's the point I have been making, one partner can't unilaterally decide that they aren't responsible for the finances because then both could make that decision and where does that leave them. It needs to be discussed and agreed.

The OP has now said it was agreed.[/quote]
No one is saying it shouldn’t be agreed. The problem is her husband doesn’t value her contribution to the family and is now wondering why she isn’t where he is in terms of career progression.

Clearly both wouldn’t stay home at the same time, if both wanted to be SAHP’s, one would work part of the week, whilst the other worked the rest.

Clearly both wouldn’t stay home at the same time, if both wanted to be SAHP’s, one would work part of the week, whilst the other worked the rest.

Clearly some couples do decide to both stop working. I knew a couple who had 12 kids and in the 20 years I knew them neither of them ever had a job.