Telling a woman about her husband’s gay affairs...

[saturnaliand]

First off, I don’t actually intend on telling her anything, although I could.

I guess I’d be interested in knowing if you’d want to know if this were your man?

The man I’m referring to is middle-aged and was upfront with his wife from the beginning that he’d had gay relationships and she was ok with this in a kind of ‘as long as you tell me and do not lie’ kind of way. That’s easy to agree to when you’re young, in love (with a woman you want to marry) and not intending on doing anything with anyone else, male or female.

It’s harder when you’re older, children almost grown up, sex life with the wife non-existent and you were gay to begin with. This isn’t some new thing he’s been experimenting with, he’s always been gay but he wanted the normality (apologies for the word) of being in a heterosexual relationship as he disliked the gay lifestyle and was regularly cheated on by the boyfriends he’d had when single.

Marrying a woman who was a lot less likely to cheat and he could have a family with seemed the better option.

He’s had some flings over the last few years or so and has recently started a new one as the last one was cut short because of the lockdowns and pandemic. Rather than go back to the previous boyfriend (if that’s the right term), he joined one of the popular hookup sites (Fabguys.com I think) and has met someone from there.

They meet regularly under the guise of going to the gym and often book hotels for the other workouts they enjoy. They go for meals, to the theatre and it’s a real ‘bromance’. The new boyfriend is also married to a woman and has a family.

To the outside world, this man is just a respectable married man with a family, but he has a controlling personality that he seems to reserve for his boyfriends. One of his ex-boyfriends that he’s had during his marriage needed therapy to get over his possessiveness, his jealousy, his moodiness and his constant need for attention as well as the cruel way the boyfriend was dumped and replaced with another.

Some of his behaviour to his boyfriends is borderline ‘gas-lighting’ behaviour.

His wife sees a totally different side, the nice side, as do his children and, so far, the new boyfriend.

This man hasn’t no intention of leaving his wife or nice lifestyle and presumably no intention of confirming her suspicions that’s he has a new boyfriend. She’s not known about any of them, just has suspicions.

He doesn’t see he’s doing anything wrong as he’s not getting sex at home, his wife knows he’s gay and has a new best friend. She just doesn’t know for certain that her husband and his new mate are lovers.

If you were his wife, would you want to know?

I appreciate everything you say and it’s not that I expected automatic sympathy from mothers, but the open hostility was a bit of a shock.

The implicit meaning behind you being surprised at the responses you got (considering as you said women in here are wives / partners / mothers) was that you expected less robust replies because it's a predominantly female forum. It's sexist. Something to work on.

Tbh Op, you have come across badly . Not only because you are over invested in your ‘friend’s’ ex boyfriend, but as other posters have pointed out you obviously expected more support because we are women, wives and mothers. Women on MN are not monolithic and it is sexist to believe that you would get support because a man cheated on his wife.
Your ‘friend’ finds it hard to comprehend that he was just another sidepiece. Your ‘friend’ needs to stop using up all this negative energy in getting revenge against his ex boyfriend.
Let us be honest, that’s what this is all about. Getting revenge on his ex . Your ‘friend’ couldn’t give a shit about the wife . If he did, he wouldn’t have continued to shag the married man.
Your ‘friend’ needs to stop fixating on his ex boyfriend and sort out his own life

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I appreciate everything you say and it’s not that I expected automatic sympathy from mothers, but the open hostility was a bit of a shock.

The implicit meaning behind you being surprised at the responses you got (considering as you said women in here are wives / partners / mothers) was that you expected less robust replies because it's a predominantly female forum. It's sexist. Something to work on.

The wording I used was “many of the posters on here are wives / partners and mothers...” and so I wasn’t suggesting that everyone or all the female posters were wives / partners and mothers.

I’d never assume anything about all the women on here being mothers, but those that are, imagine if your son, as the ex-boyfriend, came to you with this situation.

Would you all be so quick to condemn then?

@Lampzade

Tbh Op, you have come across badly . Not only because you are over invested in your ‘friend’s’ ex boyfriend, but as other posters have pointed out you obviously expected more support because we are women, wives and mothers. Women on MN are not monolithic and it is sexist to believe that you would get support because a man cheated on his wife. Your ‘friend’ finds it hard to comprehend that he was just another sidepiece. Your ‘friend’ needs to stop using up all this negative energy in getting revenge against his ex boyfriend. Let us be honest, that’s what this is all about. Getting revenge on his ex . Your ‘friend’ couldn’t give a shit about the wife . If he did, he wouldn’t have continued to shag the married man. Your ‘friend’ needs to stop fixating on his ex boyfriend and sort out his own life

Perhaps I am over invested, but it comes from a good place in that he doesn’t have many people he can talk to about something like this.

It’s one thing for someone to know you’re bisexual/gay but it’s something else entirely to admit to an affair with a married man and wanting advice or a shoulder to cry on when it goes wrong.

Neither of us are sexist or misogynistic, we just wanted a female perspective on things and maybe some support we’ve certainly got the former if not the latter!

[quote baroqueandblue]@saturnalialand most people responding to your posts here can see that you're not listening, fundamentally. You won't budge from the denial you're in, so what's the point?! You've got the bit between your jealous teeth, or your 'friend' has, and you want people to tell you to do what you're itching to do.

So do it, and live with your choice. What more needs to be said? [/quote]
He’s not ‘itching’ to get revenge.

Maybe he was when he found out, but time heals and the responses on here have helped more than you realise.

Well if it was my son, I'd support him through it, advise him to cut contact and make better choices next time.

Neither of us are sexist or misogynistic, we just wanted a female perspective on things and maybe some support we’ve certainly got the former if not the latter!

Support? For what? Shagging someone married multiple times, getting dumped, staying in touch with them and spending time psychoanalysing them and presuming the married guy is telling the truth about their marriage...

Why would you want, or get, 'support' for that?

The wording I used was “many of the posters on here are wives / partners and mothers...” and so I wasn’t suggesting that everyone or all the female posters were wives / partners and mothers.

Missed out an important word in your retelling. You said:

Considering many of the posters on here are wives / partners and mothers

"Considering".

My issue wasn't with you presuming everyone one on here is a wife / mother / partner. My issue is that you said you were surprised at the reaction "considering" the fact that some are.

Very clearly expecting a 'be kind' reaction from women in general and especially women who are partners / wives / mothers.

It's reductive and shows that you see women through the labels you assign them and not as whole, equal people.

I’d never assume anything about all the women on here being mothers, but those that are, imagine if your son, as the ex-boyfriend, came to you with this situation. Would you all be so quick to condemn then?

I would give him the exact same advice I gave you and your friend - to grow up and cut contact.

I would be incredibly disappointed if I had a son who had an affair at all, I think most people would be. I wouldn't cut him off, but I wouldn't pander to him and say he did nothing wrong. It is wrong. It's foolish and selfish and should be a lesson learned, not an ongoing drama.

Leaving aside the married part of this, all that's happened is he has had a relationship / affair with someone who, presumably, turned out to be less interested/ involved than he was, and has broken it off. And perhaps treated him badly throughout or at the end or whatever. That's a normal event for a lot of people. They have their hearts broken and they eventually get over it and hopefully find someone new and better.

"My friend accepts he needs counselling, but the husband reacted badly saying it made him feel uncomfortable. "

Wait, what? Your 'friend' won't get counseling because this man doesn't want him to?

@AcrossthePond55

"My friend accepts he needs counselling, but the husband reacted badly saying it made him feel uncomfortable. "

Wait, what? Your 'friend' won't get counseling because this man doesn't want him to?

The husband is worried he’ll be discussed, which of course he will be, although no names or anything identifiable will be mentioned, but this hasn’t meant he’s in any way understanding, encouraging or supportive of the need for counselling

My friend can self-refer via Time To Talk, although I understand the waiting list is long and he would prefer a counsellor who’s from the LGBTQI+ community as they may have direct experience of such situations.

@SGBK4682

Leaving aside the married part of this, all that's happened is he has had a relationship / affair with someone who, presumably, turned out to be less interested/ involved than he was, and has broken it off. And perhaps treated him badly throughout or at the end or whatever. That's a normal event for a lot of people. They have their hearts broken and they eventually get over it and hopefully find someone new and better.

Thanks for taking some of the heat out of the situation and you’re right that ‘stuff happens’, however, the fact that one half was married to someone else can’t be ignore for long unfortunately.

In terms of the feelings the ex boyfriend is experiencing, has the fact that the married man is maintaining a false public image had an impact?

The married man is not living an authentic existence. This then impacts upon the wife and upon any man he enters into an affair with - those people are also being denied authentic existence because they become actors in the husband's charade.

The husband is worried he’ll be discussed, which of course he will be, although no names or anything identifiable will be mentioned, but this hasn’t meant he’s in any way understanding, encouraging or supportive of the need for counselling

It's none of his fucking business though! He has no say over whether your friend seeks counselling or not. This is why it's ridiculous to be maintaining contact with the married man. He doesn't need to know any of this and your friend needs to just cut contact and move on, including therapy to help ensure he doesn't do something so self destructive again as it's clearly been a massive headfuck.

He's still spending emotionally energy on this married man, even if they aren't technically having an affair anymore. They're still talking and your friend is still ruminating over the guy's behaviour.

You haven't explained why your friend hasn't cut contact. Has he not explained it to you? It is completely self destructive. He is either enjoying the drama or hoping for a rekindling. There's no other reason to continue speaking with the married man.

@saturnaliand

I second what above PP said. It's not up to this man whether your friend gets counseling or not. And the fact that your friend seems to think it is is very troubling. Svengali/Trilby comes to mind. I hope you are seriously and strongly encouraging him to get help.

It also points to the fact that at this point your friend isn't capable of making any kind of rational decision about this man. Your friend won't get counseling because he's worried about what that man will say, but he's not worried about that man's reaction to your friend blowing his 'cover' as well as blowing up his wife's life? Someone's thought patterns are definitely askew here!

Tell her. If it's true she can protect her health. I'm agog at people saying to mind your own business.

@justgettingonwith

In terms of the feelings the ex boyfriend is experiencing, has the fact that the married man is maintaining a false public image had an impact?

The married man is not living an authentic existence. This then impacts upon the wife and upon any man he enters into an affair with - those people are also being denied authentic existence because they become actors in the husband's charade.

Yes, I’m sure that the maintaining the false public image has an impact as a counselling session is something the married man has no control over.

He can’t stop it from happening, assuming it goes ahead anyway, and cannot respond to what’s said. I’d imagine he’s paranoid that personal information, even something small like his real first name, might be used and it just brings it a tad too close for comfort.

It’s not an authentic existence you’re right. For someone to have known someone else for a number of years, whether sexual or not, and no one else in the life of either person is aware of their existence is certainly not the norm for most.

Come on. She knows. She would have to be fucking stupid to not know!

@youvegottenminuteslynn

The husband is worried he’ll be discussed, which of course he will be, although no names or anything identifiable will be mentioned, but this hasn’t meant he’s in any way understanding, encouraging or supportive of the need for counselling

It's none of his fucking business though! He has no say over whether your friend seeks counselling or not. This is why it's ridiculous to be maintaining contact with the married man. He doesn't need to know any of this and your friend needs to just cut contact and move on, including therapy to help ensure he doesn't do something so self destructive again as it's clearly been a massive headfuck.

He's still spending emotionally energy on this married man, even if they aren't technically having an affair anymore. They're still talking and your friend is still ruminating over the guy's behaviour.

You haven't explained why your friend hasn't cut contact. Has he not explained it to you? It is completely self destructive. He is either enjoying the drama or hoping for a rekindling. There's no other reason to continue speaking with the married man.

Why is there still contact?

I can’t easily explain what I don’t understand myself, but my friend, whilst not hoping for a resumption of the affair, I think he’s hoping for a proper acknowledgement that he (my friend) meant something at one stage to the married guy and that he is sorry for the upset and the hurt and to genuinely feel some remorse.

I can hear the groans already as I appreciate people saying he got involved with a married man and shouldn’t expect anything, but for what it’s worth he seems to maintain contact in the hope he’ll get a few messages of support.

He doesn’t.

Instead, it’s either along the lines of him feeling uncomfortable with the idea him being discussed in counselling or he just asks my friend if he’s met anyone recently, has he shagged anyone else as the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else.

It has been a massive head fuck for sure.

@LondonGrub

Tell her. If it's true she can protect her health. I'm agog at people saying to mind your own business.

I think that ship has sailed in terms of considering it as a possible thing to do.

The ramifications would be huge and uncontrollable.

If my friend had really wanted to do it, he would have done it already.

I’m sure he has moments of wanting to, but common sense prevails.

@IncompleteSenten

Come on. She knows. She would have to be fucking stupid to not know!

I don't think that's a given unless they're not having sex.

I've known two women who were married to gay blokes, and one of them had not a clue that he was gay. No idea at all. She was hysterical when he told her.

he seems to maintain contact in the hope he’ll get a few messages of support.

Hopeless. Seriously, your friend has more issues than the one you made the subject of your post. A good therapist could help him but even that would take time, by the sounds of it. He's refusing to accept reality. The married bloke doesn't give a shit about him, and forcing his hand will only make him give less of a shit. That's something your friend has to come to terms with, one way or another. It's sad. Few people will have any sympathy for him because being the 'other wo/man' is culturally unacceptable, generally speaking, which is why any good parent would discourage their child from going into an affair (since you were pondering that side of things earlier).

I can hear the groans already as I appreciate people saying he got involved with a married man and shouldn’t expect anything, but for what it’s worth he seems to maintain contact in the hope he’ll get a few messages of support.

But 'support' for what, exactly? What kind of support could this man possibly offer the person he's dumped and moved on from. I know, you can't really answer that because another person's mind & motives are never truly understood by someone else. But if I had to hazard a guess, it's not 'support' he's seeking, it's a renewal of the relationship. No on hangs on like your friend is unless they want the person back.

But at this point, I think your answer to any questions or statements your friend makes should be "You need to discuss this with a qualified professional". He's moved way beyond any help a sympathetic friend can offer. Your friend seems to have an 'addiction' and needs help in breaking it.