Husband doesn't love our baby

[Hbos89]

Hey guys, I really need some advice.
My husband and I have been together for 5 years. Our oldest daughter is 2 and we have a 2 month old baby girl.
Since being parents, we've struggled as a couple but we've been working hard on overcoming our issues. But that's for another thread.

Right now however, I'm faced with something that just feels like it's the end for us.

When I got pregnant the second time, my husband wasn't as involved as the first time around. He didn't care much about the ultrasounds. Didn't follow up on how big she was or how she was developing. I thought maybe it was just less special cause he'd already seen it all once before. But it's all just gotten so much worse since she was born.
There must be about 500 pictures of our oldest daughter on his phone from the first few days in the hospital. Of the baby, there are none. I noticed he never picked her up unless he had to. He doesn't call her sweet names, which he did/does all the time with the oldest. He says things like 'I wish she would just sleep all the time. Any time she wakes up, I can't stand it. I don't have the energy to deal with her.' He also gets very angry when she cries, like she' s doing it on purpose to annoy him. Today he admitted to not feeling any love for her at all.
I've tried to take care of her all on my own. I do all the feedings, chance all the diapers, hold her when she cries. And I'm doing that on top of caring for the oldest and doing the household (70/30 for me I'd say). Problem is that our youngest also has bad reflux, so she cries a lot when you put her down. I carry her around upright all day long. I don't ask for much help, but when I do it just escalates very quickly. Last night I asked if I could take a bath and leave the baby with him. I was gone less than 10 minutes when I heard her crying. I texted to see if he was okay, after which he came barging in, dropped the baby in my arms fully clothed and walked out saying 'I'm going to f*ing kill her!', punches a wall before leaving and then he's gone.
This kind of thing has happened several times before. Never with the oldest.
I'm trying to be understanding. He's having a hard time feeling any love for her. That's not something he chooses. I know he feels ashamed that this is happening. It's all so out of character for him. He's always been nothing but gentle with our oldest. I'm the strict one and he'll just give her anything she wants if she smiles at him nicely. But I just feel unsafe around him now. I'm afraid he'll end up hurting the baby. I also feel very alone. I never get a break and I feel like I have to love her enough for the both of us.
Despite our issues in the past, I have never felt like I loved him less for it. But this is different. This is my baby. My kids are my whole world and I'm very protective of them. It scares me, but I'm not looking at my husband the same way anymore.
I've asked him to talk to someone, our family doctor or a therapist. He refuses.

Help! What would you do if you were me?

I don't think they are, @Vanishun

From what I know about male "PND" (though I accept and understand why many women object to it having that name), it could well be related to the birth of the first child. It could be a delayed reaction - or his extreme immersion in his first child could also be a symptom.

I don't say this to minimise his behaviour towards the baby, but it is a real thing. The big question is whether the OP's husband will seek help - which he obviously needs to do. However, I imagine he will find it difficult, because all the men I interviewed about this said that the really big leap was accepting that they needed to seek help. Their first inclination was to pretend it wasn't a problem.

I’m so sorry OP. Please find a safe space to take your children to and stop being “understanding” of him. He’s an adult. He’s not entitled to punch walls. He’s threatened his baby and completely let down his children and wife. This is not a time for understanding.

I’m surprised how many people suggest that you ask him to leave. I would be very cautious about confronting a man who punches walls and talks about killing his baby.

I know you don’t want to leave. I know it is very hard. But at the moment you have two healthy children and if you stay I do not think that will remain the case. Even if he doesn’t physically hurt her (and it looks like one day he will), she can’t grow up healthy living with a father who despises her. And you can’t flourish there either. Do you have family or friends you can go to? If not, maybe talk to women’s refuge.

@TravelLost

I agree that he needs to see a doctor immediately and I would be asking him to leave if he didn’t.

But I don’t believe that he will be lifelong danger to the child, he likely Just needs help. If he chooses not to get that help then I agree the relationship is over.

I think with most of the other responders that safety has to be your first concern, and you need help.

Thinking back fifty odd years, my husband was indifferent to our children until they got to an age when they reacted with him (say smiling at three months) He could complacently listen to them yelling with no response. I, with my first child, used to feel terrible anger and frustration at not being able to find out what was wrong and why she was yelling. Occasionally, I felt I could not pick her up in case I should throw her down again. I did not suffer the same extremes as you are suffering. I mention my experiences in case you and your husband get the help you need eventually - just to show there might be a positive outcome.

I think it's hard from a post to get perspective on whether there is a real risk of violence, although the bath thing sounds bad.

OP, my DH was like this after DC2. Doted on DC1 (DD) but resented DC2 (DS). He did a bit of shouting swearing and wall punching. It was out of character.

He has anxiety. The baby set it off. This is how it came out. Could this be the case for your DH?

I had to spell it all out for him. He thought punching the wall was an ok outlet for aggression and I should trust him that he would never hurt us. I had to explain that to 8others it seems like a threat- 'this is what I'd like to do to you' etc. Asked him if he would do it in front of his mother. Asked him if he wants the kids scared of him.

To be honest he did his best to cut it out and as he got used to the 2 DC situation he went back to being a normal person. Well, until COVID fucked up his mental health- now he's been having OCD about the virus. The thing is he knows he has MH problems and is getting treatment. It's no fun but he's not going to hurt us.

People on here will say just leave but it's not as simple as that is it?

I would talk to my health visitor and get them to involve social services so you have back up to get him to leave and restrict access.

I think because he is so good with your first born you are giving him much more leeway than you should. He's threatened to kill your baby - he's telling you he's a risk to your baby - please listen to him.
Just a little bit of shaking could create brain damage in your child and he will end up in prison. You need to act now to save your family and possibly your baby's life.
Do you think he thinks this baby is not his? I can't see a reason why he is projecting all this hate on this child.

Leave. Honestly op. Regardless of what love and kindness he feels towards your eldest, there's something going on here that needs professional help. Keep all of you safe.

I am sorry but I would not have him around your baby that s is a serious red flag, what if he snaps and does something to the baby?

@sunnytimes83

Wow, what harsh answers! Is it at all possible your husband is suffering from post natal depression? How much sleep he gets at night? How is he performing at work since second birth? A refluxy baby is a very very hard phase to get through so you do need to look after each other. A joint or separate GP visit would be a great idea x

Harsh??

Do you not think it's not harsh enough?

He is a potential danger to the baby.

And even if it never escalates into violence, the mental damage of having one Golden Child and one Scapegoat cannot be underestimated.

She needs to get him away and seek legal advice. He's dangerous

I think he definitely doesn't need to be in the family home while this is sorted. Not least because there's a two year old for whom this must be most distressing to witness.

You need to get the children away from him, OP. He needs help, but you daren’t wait till he carries out his threat of violence. Good luck xx

Please get your children away from him. She is a defenseless baby who relies on you to keep her safe. One more push and he could flip and do something that could be life changing. She is not safe left with him.

the mental damage of having one Golden Child and one Scapegoat cannot be underestimated.

This also is important. He is harming both your daughters with this behaviour. I agree he needs help but the DC are the priority. The mental damage will already have started.

How is this post natal depression if he was completely disengaged since pregnancy?

Did you know you were carrying a girl before birth? I have seen this kind of revulsion with the baby in a man who was disappointed that they had yet another girl. One girl is fine, Daddy's princess. All girls - unacceptable.

Regardless of what the reason is for his behaviour, you must create physical distance between him and you and the children. He is a ticking bomb and since you've taken over childcare and housework and, most importantly, the mental load for both, there is little incentive for him to do anything about it. His position is just too convenient.

How is he in other areas of life - work, social life? Does his depression extends to these as well?

I suggest you watch last nights 24 hours on police custody. It showed the police dealing with injured babies, in the second case the father did much of the care & seemed to love the baby, he would take himself outside and "punch a lamppost" when frustrated but in seconds he injured his baby to the extent that it will need 24 care for the rest of its life.

@Papierdecoupe

There really is no room on mumsnet for men to suffer from mental health problems, is there? They’re always only capable of manipulation and abuse. I’m sure in many cases that is what’s going on, but surely in some they’re just the same as all of us - imperfect humans. I’m going to assume your husband is a good man, not out to kill you and your children, purely because you say you’ve been happy with him for years. That doesn’t mean to say you shouldn’t protect yourself and your children.

Men do suffer mental health problems. Postnatal depression in anyone can present as intolerance to crying, feeling overwhelmed and out of character behaviour. The wall punch and words he used must have been terrifying, and you certainly do need to make sure he isn’t taking care of the baby until he’s no longer feeling that rage reaction to her crying. It’s really good that he feels secure enough with you to be honest about how he feels and you want to keep that going.

If he moves out for a while and you instead meet for two-hour bursts to do family activities that might help slowly build confidence back? Having him use headphones with calming music on when he’s interacting with your baby might also help. Based on what you’ve said, he certainly shouldn’t be unsupervised with her. If you direct him to the charity ICON, they might be able to help him.

My husband had a less extreme response to our very colicky second born. He felt inexplicable rage dealing with the baby screaming and told me he felt scared by the rage reaction he had. I did the same as you, and did all care for the baby in the first 3 months. It was hard, but my husband did all the cooking, cleaning and caring for our other child in that time. He just couldn’t at that point cope with the baby. Yes, there were arguments and resentments, but we came through it and he’s now bonding with our second child and the rage he felt disappeared as quickly as it had come on. It’s disappointing to know someone you love so much is so ‘weak’ (for want of a better word), but we’re not all in perfect and rational at all stages of our life.

But it doesn't appear that the OP's husband does anything with the baby to get stressed

He's a selfish fuck who can't control his own emotions and expects you be able to pick up and deal with something he can't (or won't).

@Hbos89

I'll add some information. The second baby was planned and wanted by both of us. He does worry a lot, so before getting pregnant we talked a lot about whether we would have enough time, money etc. to have another child. He tends to be more pessimistic about those things than me.

And to elaborate on our other issues, they are not black and white, and definitely not just his fault. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to taking care of the kids and want things done at a very high standard. He sometimes feels like I suffocate the kids (and him) that way. I'm working on that on my end, because I know he's right. However, I sometimes feel like he just sits around and waits for me to tell him how to help out around the house. He'll always help out when asked, but doesn't take much initiative. He's also grown a lot in that aspect. So like I said, these are just normal day to day issues that couples with kids encounter. He's not the bad guy, or at least he hasn't been until this all started happening. He's never lost his temper or acted threatening in any way towards me or the oldest. He's always been a genuinely good guy. That's why I'm so shocked by the way he's acting now.

Since my post I've talked to him. He's been crying all night and feels incredibly ashamed of the way he acted. We've talked about him staying with his parents for a while until we sort this out. I've also made it very clear that we're on a breaking point. I will not tolerate his behavior, but even more I won't allow my children to grow up in a situation where they don't feel safe, loved, cared for or accepted by one of their parents. If he can't fix himself, he can't be involved in their lives. He agrees, says that if it was the other way around he'd do the same. He doesn't want to be a threat to our kids, but feels like he's overwhelmed and unable to control himself right now.
The replies about (postpartum) depression were interesting. I've sent him the links and I'm going to give him some space to read them and hopefully seek out some help.
Thank you all for your input

It’s dangerous how badly you’re minimising the fact your husband punched the wall to avoid punching your tiny baby. He’s a monster and you’re just as bad for minimising his behaviour.

But it doesn't appear that the OP's husband does anything with the baby to get stressed

This right here is the difference! A mother doing all the work day and night and getting frustrated is very different from a dad just hating being around the baby. Not doing anything- and getting annoyed after 2 minutes. That is actually very dangerous

I have a 1 month old and my OH was very disinterested and sometimes irritable/huffy in the first week. We had a frank chat and this is exactly what I said: you have no reason to be stressed. Things changed, he started making a really good effort and things are great now.

No way would I put up with threats to kill, or punching walls. That is terrifying. He needs to leave.

It doesn't really matter whether its abusiveness or poor MH. He poses a risk to the baby as he currently stands, and he needs to leave until he sorts himself out.

I think there may well be a mental health issue here, but that means your DH isn’t in his right mind and you are. If there is even the chance that he might be a threat to your baby, you need to get yourself and your DC away from there.

I suffered from severe PND and was hospitalised in a mother and baby unit. I can identify with the feelings of extreme rage, and the shame that comes with it, but I was never a danger to my baby. With the right medication I recovered rapidly and was discharged within two months, so it is possible for your husband to turn this around if he seeks help. You can point him in the right direction but ultimately it’s his responsibility. Yours is to keep your children safe.

This is domestic abuse OP, please insist he goes and stays with his parents, don't just talk about it.

Just because he stormed in and 'dumped' her fully clothed onto your lap while in the bath doesn't mean that next time he won't do something stupid like shake her. It only needs to happen once, and your poor baby could either die or become severely disabled because of being shaken

but in seconds he injured his baby to the extent that it will need 24 care for the rest of its life.

We had a horrific case local to me where the "dad" did just this. He got pissed off one day and picked up one of his newborn (2 month) old twins, shook him and threw him against a wall. He's basically a blind vegetable now. (Not to mention the guilt the "normal" twin is experiencing that a split second decision as to which child he picked up could have ended up differently for him instead of his brother). Most people who knew/know him said they never imagined he'd be capable of such a thing. But obviously he was, and he did.

Your husband is already showing signs that he IS capable of doing something like this, so PLEASE, for your child/ren's sakes, and their very lives, get them away from this vile piece of shit before it's too late.

Even without the physical violence, he's already set up a golden child vs scapegoat situation, which is also absolutely abhorrent beyond words.