October 2021 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its late October 2021 now, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

My previous posts are on here regarding my mum. I'm in an abusive relationship with my son's dad. She thought we'd broken up cos I lied stupidly. I told her tonight we didn't break up and I'm being abused. She said she won't believe me about the abuse until she speaks to my abuser. She told me my wonderful nan who passed away in November will be looking down on me disgusted.

Why does abusive mum often equal abusive partner.

@KeeG8181 I really feel for you.
It’s incredibly hard to untangle yourself from an abuser whether that’s a partner or a parent. But you can. You can replace them with decent people who will care for you. Don’t feel bad or stupid about these things taking time.

And then more of it in Hagville. Having a nice chilled out time with leisurely food and wine yesterday afternoon. We FaceTime SIL - MIL aka Hag is furious that SIL didn’t have time to ring her on Xmas Day, SIL has two teen boys and was staying at her partner’s family place and HEY MAYBE SHE DOESN’T WANT THE XMAS MISERY - and catch up with her. Then for some unknown reason Mr Monkey rings his hag of a mother (now thankfully back in her lair) and is greeted with “I need some things from the supermarket tomorrow”. We are half an hour drive away, we don’t drive so the driver would be my mum. Slave Son is the supermarket lackey, not us. He is 10 minutes drive away from her.

Fuck knows where this latest bollocks is from, but, obviously, designed with the aim of pissing on our time away. I drunkenly ring Slave and ask if he’s ill - he’s not - so if not ill, why is this falling into our laps? I also tell him that he needs to get a grip on this and he and Mr Monkey need to sort Power of Attorney with her. He’s never particularly liked me - I stand up to his mum - so he’s not impressed. He knows and Hag knows that I’ve empowered Mr Monkey so I’m not popular.

Mr Monkey rings Hag this morning - why?!? - to check on the supermarket issue. Hag: “I just worry about Slave Son and his legs”. Funny that his disability is dragged out at convenient moments for arch manipulation. “And this cold is awful”. Mr Monkey: “then don’t go out to the supermarket.” We’re back to the usual shit after dumping her back in her slum on Boxing Day.

She is soooooooo Fucking vile. When we dropped her back on Boxing Dat, after all the usual crap of ‘don’t buy me anything’ we’d endured (so we didn’t) she’s showing us the slippers her neighbour gave her. They look as if they won’t be banished to the spare room. I’m now getting flashbacks to Xmas Day like when She’s sitting at my mum’s dining table and Hag is looking at the tiled floor and saying: “so, what would you do if I fell on that floor”.

My answer would be gather up the cheese, wine, leave her on the floor and depart.

2022 has to be different. I’m finding Mr Monkey a counsellor and I emailed him this article on narcissists. I cannot be arsed to talk it through with him today. I see every single tactic in this BRILL article

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2016/06/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you/

Jesus wept. We’re still at Mummy Monkey’s. It’s bliss apart from me still feeling LIVID at the run up to Xmas (since September!) with the Hag and her vile behaviour.

We are having a late lunch with two of my mum’s friends who she looks after.

One woman is 91 and her husband has just gone into a home with dementia. She spent Xmas alone - we didn’t know or she would have been welcomed with open arms - as her son and family had Covid.

The other is in a wheelchair most of the time and is 80.

Mum is treating us to a lovely take away from a gorgeous restaurant in the village. Doubtless, there will be a squabble over contributions to the bill which won’t be cheap but my mum is generous and of the opinion that there are no pockets in your shroud.

Hag never brings ANYTHING for Xmas lunch.

Mr Monkey has just phoned her so she doesn’t ring him and ruin the meal.

Oh, you’ve remembered your mother.

MM pretends the reception is bad and he can’t hear her.

He reminds her that another old lady hasn’t had it so good. He tells her about the meal and what we’re eating.. She is bound to stew on that as she planned to invite herself for the whole week we’re here. FFS.

Because of rampant Covid, Mr Monkey is going round tomorrow to do a PCR.

Cue moaning.

Mummy Monkey will drive him over.

Oh, I don’t want her to come into the flat/slum.

FFS. She’s seen it when Hag was in hospital and we did DIY E.g. scrape the wallpaper off her windows and take her old hoover away which gave ELECTRIC shocks and replaced it with an old one disabled friend was getting rid of. A Fucking Dyson.

Hag: are you sure she’s not cheating me?

It was practically new.

So, mummy monkey is expected to sit in the car and wait for an hour or possibly longer as the Hag will kick off with Mr Monkey.

No thank you for the test. No thank you for Mummy Monkey driving over. And no thank for Xmas Day.

She’s horrible.

Hello! I haven't posted for a while, apologies if I'm butting in :) just a really quick question for those in the know.... I have a friend, who, asks me (or rather tells me) "You're not yourself/ I can tell something is wrong" etc etc from time to time and it has started to get on my you-know-what's!!! She said it in an email to me yesterday. Perhaps I'm getting wound up over spilt milk?!.. Perhaps she sees something I don't?!...... but it makes me feel off. I have a fairly toxic FOO etc so perhaps I attract these types?!....perhaps she knows me better than myself and I'm easily wound up?!!.....any thoughts please wise ones?

So perhaps I need to clarify....
I'm usually just going about my business, and the whole "You ok? I can tell something is not right?" makes me stand to attention. This then leads me to question myself, reread my recent messages and go over our conversation to see if I have given her anything to cause her to worry about me. It's strange but I'm willing to accept that this could be my shit not hers....

@MonkeyfromManchester your mum sounds lovely and her friends too. So sorry for the one who spent her Christmas alone.

@KeeG8181 I'm sorry about what your mum said about your nan looking down on you. Surely if your nan can see everything that's going on she'll know about the abuse and will look on that with disgust not you.

My update.... my gran continued to tell me she would be alone on Christmas day and refused our invite. My brother told me repeatedly my dm was going around and I should ignore, he was right. My dm did go to my grans on Christmas day. I don't think my gran knew this though as she had even cooked her own turkey on Christmas eve. No idea what's going on with that, my brother says they're both doing it to wind me up and I should ignore it. I think he's right. My gran has asked me again to apologise to my mum for "withdrawing from her" she did go on to say she understood and knows my mum hurts me.

Everyone seems conflicted, it's such a horrible situation. I have two children (one with severe disabilities) and I just can't imagine ever doing these things, it just makes no sense at.

Considering taking a leaf out of Monkeys book and going to the in laws for new year.

monkeyfrommanchester the sooner your DP is able to go low contact the better. The hag really is a piece of work.

Your mum sounds lovely though. Far too nice to be running around after that vile hag.

@MonkeyfromManchester the link you posted was spot on!!! Very good/scary reading!

Your mum sounds amazing!!! There aren’t enough Mummy Monkeys in this world!

Sorry I’ve not caught up with all posts, I’ve been feeling a bit from but thinking of you all!

@Zoolife101 it sounds like what the friends is saying is maybe triggering you in some way… have you had this kind of comments from people previously who’s intentions weren’t good? On the face of it, your friend could be concerned about you, or is it more forceful? Pushing with this line when you’ve said you’re ok?

@Justrealised you could never imagine doing this as you are nothing like that! It’s so confusing to come from a FOO that is so alien to us… I often feel it would make sense if it transpired I had been swapped at birth!

@Notmenottoday thank you! You are probably right! Having been working on this complex, crazy FOO, stuff for the last couple years I think I am probably fairly easy to trigger....ESP at this time of year
Quite often in my FOO my "mental health" has been used as a way to validate their own poor behaviour or the behavior of others eg) when my psycho ex was cheating on me and I shared my concerns and how abusive he could be it was me "imagining things" or "taking too much on" and "not thinking straight" when in actual fact I was fine.....just living with a philandering nutjob !

So in this situation I'm like hmmm is this genuine concern (but it doesn't feel genuine even though I can not vocalise why), is there actually something wrong with me that I am not seeing (again, I feel no more stressed than usual...!although it's been a particularly trying month ), or does she like to tell me how I feel (which is definitely a FOO pattern) which could mean I'm attracting the same old narc- leaning characters into my life

It's a funny one. Perhaps she is genuinely caring, it's just the way it's said that leaves me uncomfortable.

And actually after waffling away I guess I see the rub a bit clearer ...how does one tell the difference between someone being a trigger to someone being a bit toxic..answers on a postcard please

@Zoolife101 keep an eye on it and your guard up. I think gut instinct is usually right! If she says this again, maybe ask “what makes you say that?” and see what the response might be.

It’s horrible when those you are meant to trust shake your foundations and make you question yourself! Especially in areas where really you are seeking support.

I can relate, I get very easily triggered by people laughing at me. Not in a humorous “you’re funny” way, but when it’s at my expense. Even if those doing it think it’s light hearted “come on, that’s so funny!” It really gets to me. Mainly because I was invalidated A LOT when I was young? I was “too sensitive” or told I was always messing things up (followed my tinkly laugh) only joking, you’re so sensitive.

"your too sensitive" yuck. That has to be one of the worst, most damaging, things said to a kid. I bloody hate it....( Not triggered at all, honest )

Yes I think I need to trust my gut a bit more. I think the last time she said it, it felt like I was knocked off guard, we'd had a really nice, but very busy day out with our very young kids....I was shattered, but in that slightly manic and sleep-deprived but very content way. I felt really, I guess, affronted, that she turned round and said "I meant to say, you seemed really not yourself today, what's wrong? I could tell something's up straight away." Not a big deal I guess but when your having a good time it leaves you thinking... am I conveying something else? The thing is I really wear my heart on my sleeve so if something was up she would be the first to know!!!! Ah well!!

I’m at a crunch point in challenging toxic df. I do really love him and I do admire some qualities he has and I know life wasn’t easy but dear God, he is doing my head in.

I posted a short story of my life on social media- it was for a campaign for women and girls rights. He found it and went apeshit ordering me to delete it for ‘accusing him of abuse’ and ‘slandering the family’. I hit back saying that a text message was not the way to make the request, that the one line of history was all based on facts and wasn’t about him and that anyway it was true that I had no happy memories at all. He has come back saying I have prematurely taken years off his life and he can never forgive it and I am dumb and woke and self absorbed etc etc

I want to go back and point out that this verbal abuse needs to stop and isn’t appropriate in dialogue between two people who claim to care for each other. I also want to point lit that his response is his responsibility not mine and to tell him about an event he made so terrible for me that I too, will never forget it- so I can empathise with his dramatic response to my gentle challenges.

But I’m scared.
To challenge the dynamic and name the toxicity.
To have it explode in my face.
I don’t want to be NC and I don’t want to fall out forever, I just want to interrupt the pattern of fear and control that he uses to silence me when I raise an opinion or criticism or dissent that he doesn’t like.

Handhold? Dynamic shifting success stories? Advice most welcome.

Sounds rather trite but it does read like a truth hurts situation. I think it's very brave and I can see that will definitely ruffle a few feathers.
Interesting that you haven't actually even mentioned anything regarding him in the post...
Not that I'd want to hide your courage but I'd be tempted to delete him off social media, maintain the contact you desire in real time but go NC through all other media. I am NC with my father which actually began as his choice but over time I realised I felt better and therefore I have maintained it. It's definitely not easy. Good luck! X

@Justrealised my mum is a star. Old lady was really matter of fact “it’s a global pandemic and worse things could happen” but I know!!!! We had a lovely evening.

If both you and your brother think you’re being played, you’re being played. Go to your in laws next year. Do what YOU want. Leave them to it. I think a lot of children from toxic families who spot the games develop brilliant self-awareness and are great parents because of it.

@StrawberryFizz26 she’s fucking horrible. What if she used that intelligence that she puts into arch manipulation into something like volunteering? But no it’s far better to use it to fuck other people up.

@Notmenottoday that article is brilliant. I’m going to create a bingo sheet and play Narc bingo when overhearing her BS with Mr Monkey. I will design it and send it to everyone on here!

@Zoolife101 I’m 500% on instincts these days. I think we have them for a very good reason. I love your comment about philandering nutjob!

@Angliski what you’ve got going on there is 1) years off my life (guilt for you) and 2) namecalling.

Further up in one of my MANY rants about my toxic mother in law aka the Hag is a link to an article about the behaviours of toxic family members. You may well spot a lot of your dad’s behaviours there.

I suggest you don’t back to your dad to open up a dialogue and you empathise. He’s not displaying any empathy to you. Just drop the conversation because it will become a massive to and fro and will not make you feel good. You won’t change his behaviour. Think about what you need. Communicate on your terms. This a great place to talk and get support.

Unbelievable.

We had a lovely late lunch yesterday from 4.45pm with my mum’s two friends - 91 and 86. I suggest that MM phone the Hag at 4pm so our evening isn’t ruined as she is bound to ring knowing we have an enjoyable evening ahead.

We have a lovely evening. Two sweet old ladies. One has a husband who’s just gone into dementia care and she spent Xmas Day on her own (unbeknownst to us) because her son had Covid. The other is barely mobile. They are cheerful, we play parlour games, eat lovely food and laugh.

I hear arguing at 8am this morning. I’m in the spare room as Mr Monkey snores (!), especially after wine, so I get up and go into our bedroom.

Hag is on the phone. She’s shouting at MM that she’s not eaten since 4pm yesterday as she ‘misunderstood’ the bit about not eating 30 minutes before a PCR test which is due today. Laying the guilt on really REALLY thickly.

I missed the earlier tactic of the whimpering voice at the start of the call - “when are you coming over? I’ve not eaten anything” - as stage one hadn’t woken me up.

She had phoned MM last night to ‘check’ on the eating issue for three times during the course of our dinner (of course). He didn’t hear the phone because he was enjoying himself with two normal old ladies (and my 76 year old mum, but she still thinks she’s 56)

What he is supposed to do is rush over there right NOW this morning at 8am. We are 30 minutes drive away. MM is reliant on my mum to drive him over as we don’t drive. My mum is fast asleep.

Hag is shouting at him (stage two) and trying to guilt trip him into doing what she wants E.g. that he sabotage his own break over Xmas . Hag doesn’t get the result she wants so she angrily hangs up.

MM goes to the loo. Hag rings his mobile and I pick up. WHY DID I DO THIS?

“He’s in the loo. He’ll ring you when he’s free”

I hang up.

She IMMEDIATELY phones my mum’s mobile which is on the kitchen table! My mum is asleep as Mr Monkey and her stayed up til 1am. Hag knows I won’t pick up mine after all the times that she’d ring me to get me involved. Nope, just checked my mobile - upstairs - no missed call.

Thank god, my mum is asleep.

He rings her back.

“Don’t hurry over”

This is supposed to elicit the action of him going to her his mother’s lair immediately.

“I won’t. It will be some time today.”

The reason for the call 1) to make us have a shit time whilst we’re away at my mum’s 2) to feel guilty about being away leaving the ‘vulnerable’ old lady on her own 3) to punish us for not inviting her for a week here (the thought!!!!) 4) anger because she wasn’t invited last night.

Last night in the 4pm conversation with mr Monkey
“Oh, I didn’t know there was another lady going. I thought it was just one.” With a sniff.

Designed to elicit guilt and action.

“Christ, quick, get in the car and let’s pick her up and let’s inflict her on other people.”

NO WAY.

Angliski

I would drop the rope here with regards to your df; he does not want to hear your point of view because the only one he accepts is his own. Many people also have hard lives and choose not to act like he does either; he does this because he can and it works for him.

Responding to him also keeps a door of communication open that should otherwise remain shut, these types really like nothing more than a fight and or the last word. Radio silence is all powerful here and your best revenge here is to live well and without him in any aspect of your life.

@MonkeyfromManchester I love your step by step analysis, it’s like a reading comprehension for toxicity.

I’m still in hospital. I hate to think what my parents and sister are doing while I’m here. Yesterday my mum apparently dropped off a statement of “her side of the story” so I’m afraid I will lose even the support I have here. Too depressed to do anything even get out of bed. Frankly I know I’ve ruined Christmas for the entire family and I’m about to ruin everyone’s lives again and I don’t want to be alive any more. I can’t bear the thought of going back and I can’t deal with the alternative. Desperately need help but there appears to be nothing in person and nothing outside the hospital and if I get police involved my mum will probably flip and accuse me of all sorts of things. I’m on morphine and a beta-blocker and too anxious to sleep and too depressed to move really. Desperate and really really loathing myself.

@Angliski sorry you’re experiencing this. I have a similar response whenever I tell people except I get accused of abuse in return and my mum spreads lies about me in advance and collects evidence. I would cut him off on social media, leave the post up but don’t go back to him about it as he will never listen and you’ll just get more bullying. It’s all about image from narcissist. My mum operates like the current government and it looks like your father does too! I’ve also been stalked over social media without my knowledge.

@CecileDeRetour thank you. I’ve explained to DP that NOTHING the Hag does can be taken at face value ESPECIALLY when we are here as she is FURIOUS that we are here as jealous of my mum.

Her side of the story, love, will have been seen countless times by medical professionals. The same is true of elderly people with their carers and slagging off their children. You won’t lose the support you have there. They are paid to look after you, even if you’re not getting 100% what you need. Fuck the “ruined the whole Xmas”, you have internalised their view of you. Keep trying with getting support at the hospital or externally. Christmas is a hard time to get support from organisations because staff are off and it’s often a peak time for crisis. That’s an explanation, not an excuse. You have to be tough and assertive and get some support. You need to take control back and work through it - yes’m it’s painful - but you deserve a far better life than the one you have now. Hugs. Xxx

Not been on here for a long time. Had major issues with my dad, since childhood.
During the summer my eldest dd (14) spoke to me and said she doesn't want her gd to touch her anymore, she said that he would touch her on her bum or stroke her arm and that she didn't like it. I spoke to him and said it's inappropriate, he totally twisted the situation, got very defensive and at no point asked if dd was ok. He demanded that he talk 1:1 with dd, which I refused. He has denied the whole time, made out that dd is a liar. There have been 2 occasions that we've seen him since this phone call. Both times he's refused to acknowledge dd, glaring at her etc. Dd doesn't want anything to do with him.
Today, I've had a row with him over the phone, he demanding that this is sorted, that she's not a child and she knows what he's doing.
I know she is telling the truth, she is not a liar, but it also happened to me as a child, which I feel terrible that I put her in harm's way.
Wwyd, would you leave it as it is, go lc, and not let dd not be near gd? Would you have a 'meeting' to discuss situation, with both present.

They’ve got an IDVA here over the phone who can find a refuge space and then say they can make a plan. What I need is someone to speak to my parents on my fucking side or at least be physically present when I go back, or it’s just me against three of them who have decided they have a right to be in my space, have me keep them company all the time and to take my belongings and read my correspondence. I can’t abscond to refuge like this because it’s not free and my cards are there and they’ll be able to access my account and my laptop if I go, or call the police or try to get me tracked down and sectioned. I keep thinking why don’t we just have a conversation and I will say we obviously aren’t getting on, I will be out of your hair in a few days but that’s never worked because my mum wants someone around to validate her all the time. She’s going to wreak such havoc even if it doesn’t affect me. I keep trying to explain what the problem is and refuge said that there should be a social worker or someone to accompany me but even the IDVA is by phone only.

@Iamtheweedonkey - your dad thinks there is nothing wrong with his behaviour. He believes that he can act however he wants, and that women and girls should suck it up. Women and girls should do as they're told, and cowtow to men.

Fuck that. Believe your daughter. Protect her. Don't put her in a situation where she can be confronted. The 'meeting' is a bad idea.

If she doesn't want to see him, then that's her decision and that's fine. Give her a big hug and be glad that she feels able to set her own boundaries. Her body, her choices. (And we all remember what it's like to be a 14 year old girl, right?)

@MonkeyfromManchester - can you block The Hag's phone number on all phones except Mr Monkey? She's fucking outrageous, ringing your lovely mum like that.

@Iamtheweedonkey if your father made your daughter feel uncomfortable it’s a bad idea to put him the same room as her. Believe her (which I’m sure you do). Go LC. No one needs toxicity in their lives. And certainly not anything that feels inappropriate at best, creepy abusive at worst.

@CecileDeRetour keep pushing for a social worker.

@Sicario I know! I’m a tech muppet so I think I’ve blocked her. If she ever dares ring me - last time was May 2021 when I hung up on her - the call will not be answered. And she knows it.

Hence call to my mum. Mum was asleep and I doubt VERY much that my mum would answer preferring to believe her son in law’s experience of his DREADFUL mother. I was pretty amazed at her ringing my mum. No low.

Despairing at no one taking pity on her. My mum has seen it all and asked MM why he still sees her. That’s a LOT coming from my mum.

No social worker, the IDVA is on leave, no refuge place until well into the new year. So now I’m going back alone and can’t sit still because I’m thinking of all the things my mum and sister will be doing back there before I get back. Fucking hating myself as well. Sorry for all the updates. I explained I didn’t want my parents in my stuff and that they would stop me leaving and the doctor asked if I could get them to bring my purse in and then said I was creating problems when I said I couldn’t. For crying out loud.