October 2021 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its late October 2021 now, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Step away.you’re never going to be able to win as the rules will always change to ensure you don’t

@Escapingafter50years You really can’t win unfortunately in the sense that they will never ever accept responsibility. Even at the expense of their relationships with their own children.
As hard as it is the only way is to begin the journey ( you’ve clearly begun already) to processing that you won’t be very have the mother / daughter relationship you crave from her.
That sentence in itself is so simple to write but the complexity and pain attached to it is indescribable.
If cutting her off completely seems too much at the moment you could tell yourself you are taking a MH break and cease contact for the time being.
Make yourself a priority for now. Just putting yourself first and allowing yourself to put your own needs ahead of your mother’s for once will be a crucial move for you right now.

Also I never find anyone’s story boringly long so please get it all down ! This is I’ll also be a massive release for you .
I promise you will get nothing but validation here.

Also @Escapingafter50years the conveniently forgetting to stop doing something they know upsets you is a common theme.
You will find many common themes, also sadly validating.

Escapingafter50years

Your mother used DARVO on you and she has a willing cohort of flying monkeys (sent in by mother to further do her dirty work for you. These people are not interested in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored.

DARVO is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.

First you have Deny – that’s pretty self-explanatory. You’ll see the person accused of wrongdoing simply denying that that’s the case; ‘I do not hold those views’, ‘I never said that’, ‘I did not do that bad thing’.

The Deny stage is where gaslighting starts to come into play, with the person often trying to simply deny someone else’s lived reality. ‘No, that doesn’t happen’, ‘no, you’re making that up’, or ‘that might have happened, but it’s not as bad as you say it is’.

Then there’s Attack bit. This is when the accused person will turn around the criticism to focus blame on the person calling them out. So let’s say a celebrity was called out by someone on Twitter – they might go into attack mode by accusing that person of just being jealous, or bitter, or a liar.

Finally, you’ve got the Reverse Victim and Offender stage. This is where things get sneaky and subtle. Suddenly, the accused person will turn things around and say that actually, they’re not guilty of doing something terrible. In fact, they are the ones being treated poorly.

In this stage, you might see someone introduce their own trauma as an excuse or a distraction tactic. They’ll respond to accusations of racism, for example, with a story about how they faced gender discrimination when they were younger. Or they might focus their statement on how they feel ‘bullied’ by the accusations, so those reading feel that the person who has been called out is actually the victim, facing online abuse rather than being challenged on their actions.

You are absolutely going to have to drop the rope she holds out to you and grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. You do not need her approval, not that she would ever give you this anyway.

@AttilaTheMeerkat my mum has used all of these against me in messages yesterday, I actually used some of the stick responses that you have in the very first post. Thank you for these, she stopped, I think she wasn't expecting me to reply the way I did and couldnt answer.

She said it was ok that she hurt me using my niece because shes going to then do the same to her so it's equal.

To the poster who was worried about their post being too long and all the other who post, thank you for sharing your stories and thoughts.

Has anyone ever wondered if it's them that is the narcissist? I'm looking at my own behaviour and wondering if I've got it wrong. It just isn't normal for so many of your own family to behave like this. When I look at my close friends relationships with their mums and wider families, they're nothing like mine. I hate the idea of being like this with my children when they're older and them feeling like I do now. What I mean is if it's me that's the issue.

@Justrealised the fact you are asking means you are not . It’s normal to think that though. It’s almost like an instinct to cast ourselves as a scapegoat because that gives back some control.

@Justrealised it’s not you. And you’re not repeating with your children. Toxic people are really good at making it feel like it’s your fault.

I think my mum had had wine last night as she emailed me and said ‘we could drive to Scotland sometime in December and take The Hag (toxic MIL) so she could see her grandchildren’.

I had a flicker of ‘maybe’ and then I shut it down ‘sister in law is really busy in December with her job’

Which means FUCK NO. JUST NO.

The misery of sitting in a car with her, the drama of a hotel, the centre of attention shit, the mawkish self-pity, it doesn’t bear thinking about. No.

This is the other thing that Toxic People do to the well-adjusted. We think we can solve their problems and ‘heal’ them. As I’ve realised with The Hag, I can’t heal toxic. No one can.

My parents do DARVO currently not talking to me because ‘they are really hurt’
If and when I get back in touch they will deny what happens, accuse me of everything I have ever done wrong and they can’t help me as I’m not self aware - my father will often say I played a mean practical joke on my brother aged 17 just after he played a mean one on me -this is 30 years ago and the worst thing on me - the times he punched me in my face are acceptable as he was just reacting to me being a shit. So then this is attack and reverse then they will talk about how horrible I am and how I have to prove I trust them by letting the kids go for a sleep over without me - or some such nonsense. He will never see what he does.

@IAAP Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly what happened to me too. 2 or 3 adjusted ( re-crafted) stories have become narrative of what a nasty , ‘aggressive’ person I am.
They all, especially my brother as they were as you say incidents between he and I, twist the narrative.
Whenever we are in the company of anyone new the stories come out to make me look a certain way in front of them. They tell the stories as ‘fun’ so that I will look exactly how they are portraying me if I react or else ‘Too sensitive’ the toxic favourite .
It’s my brothers words but TMs narrative.
I adored my brother growing up , I ran home from school to play with him , taught him to take his first steps and helped my mum change nappies. At just 7 years old I was often asked to mind him.
None of that ever gets brought up!

@MonkeyfromManchester - I honestly think this may be why she’s behaving somewhat currently.
DO NOT fall for it. You have a kind heart and so it’s hard because your instinct is to be kind.
You must be kind to yourself and MM as you both need this clear boundary at Christmas.

@therealsmithfield they love to seize the narrative.

THANK YOU for reminding me to stand firm.

Oh yes The Hag is doing ‘nice parent’ impressions at the moment. Talking to MM last night I’m really clear that I’m not having my Xmas ruined. He totally gets it. He feels the same.

He’s taking her to the hairdresser and for lunch in a couple of weeks. I’m not going despite the pub serving the best cheese and onion pie EVER. And, oddly enough, her behaviour is, generally, much SO better than if we three were going out. HMMMM..I wonder what that’s about.

She’s so dim and deluded and ENTITLED that she thinks the nice shit is going to change my opinion and actions, MM has my back on this 150%. Our Xmas on our terms. I fucking loathe her.

@Justrealised I used to think that I was the issue, until I found this thread. My DH is also scapegoat in his family so having this on both sides seemed to make it even more likely that “it must be us” however this is just the story they have created and have us believe. It’s been hammered home so much that we even believe it internally at times.

Having DC of my own has made me see so clearly though that being loved and cared for shouldn’t be dependent on a list of expectations, and if you don’t meet them you are cast aside. That’s not normal! Yet these people convince us this is somehow acceptable and if we don’t please them we will pay the price.

It’s so unhealthy and hard to break out from after years of having this drummed into you. It’s very juvenile also… DHs family exclude us from things as a punishment for not dancing to their tune. Of course this suits us, as we are want contact to be low. But when we do see them they harp on and on (and on) about places they’ve been and things they’ve done without us. We simply respond with “that’s nice” on repeat. It clearly rattles one or two members as they don’t get a reaction, so go on a bit more about things they have planned together. Again, we repeat “that’s nice” but of course we are strange/difficult/boring/miserable/whatever the buzz word is that day.

The are not unkind or cruel for excluding immediate members of their family, in their eyes that’s a reasonable way to treat people who don’t tow the line and by extension their own GC are left out and told about what they’ve missed out on as part of our “penance”. They are effectively trying to provoke a reaction…

It’s so bizarre isn’t it that goading for a reaction? Before counselling I vividly remember being with my TM and being wryly amused that in two hours she had tried almost every single strategy to get me to bite so that she could rage back at me and toxic dump all of the negative emotions that she couldn’t process onto me. Unfortunately, she roped in flying monkeys that I couldn’t - at the time - ignore so she got what she wanted in the short term but that really was a turning point and the first time that I really saw for myself what DH had been saying for years. I’m trying so hard not to replicate this dynamic but it’s not easy.

Hi
My parents use DARVO... but... this year has been really illuminating because (soon to be ex) DW does too. She's Autistic. My dd has noticed it too. It's her default on everything. She's very forgetful, doesn't listen and is scatty. But crucially she really isn't a bad person. Her DARVO is to cover for her own inadequacies. For about 5 years I knew this but I couldn't prove. I was the one who was 'wrong'. But since realising via here and counselling...with my DM (who practically invented the concept!). Its instinctive. They don't realise they are doing it. And they lack the capacity to change. I really had to grieve this. As until about 6 months ago I was always hopeful both my parents and DW would change. Then I realised that I needed to separate as I'd been too well trained by my parents and not going to let history repeat!

It's shocking how they twist stories. When I was hit by my ex husband and had help from the DV team, police and my GP my mother berated me as 'she couldn't sleep and she couldn't get any medication' they were hundreds of miles away. WTF. She cut me off once saying 'I can't hear any more the whole situation is too stressful you married him you take care of it -it' s stressing me' I however, would hold my daughter and do anything I could for her -if something like that happened to her. Or indeed my son.

I'm so sick of the words, that I can't take a joke, that I have no sense of humour, that's I'm too emotional or if I cried -I was ruining the atmosphere.

My meds are finally starting to kick it and I'm feeling a little better today.

Hugs to all.

@therealsmithfield Thank you, that's a very helpful idea to take a "temporary" mental health break. In my WhatsApp message I told her I was seeing a therapist due to what she did. To be honest, I would like never to have to see her again, the thought of being physically in her company makes my skin crawl. But phrasing it as temporary is perhaps not a bad thing for right now, if she thinks it's permanent she will have her revenge on me.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Thanks, wise words as always. I agree I need to grieve for the relationship I didn't have, I just don't know how to do this and hope my counsellor will be able to help me on this.

I informed 2 flying monkeys, aunt and cousin, that I am seeing a counsellor due to this situation. Aunt would always take "mother's" side anyway, herself and "mother" are totally enmeshed, but I believe she has been fed a load of lies about me. About a year ago I said to aunt that "mother" rarely calls me except when she wants something and aunt said "mother" would say the same about me. Yet I would make at least 3/4 of the phone calls and I'm not looking for anything from her When I asked "mother" why aunt would say this she told me not to mind aunt, she doesn't know what she's saying. But actually I think "mother" has been stitching me up.

Cousin left a voicemail for me telling me she had visited "mother" and got a shock when she saw her, she has "lost 2 stone", is "crying all the time" and says she "said all the wrong things". Cousin thought I should know. But cousin obviously doesn't know I saw facebook photos of aunts recent birthday where "mother" was out with them and they apparently had a fantastic evening, just a week before cousin's visit.

@IAAP Your post resonates so strongly, I don't know how many times I have been told I'm too sensitive or I can't take a joke or I have no sense of humour. But this never works the other way, if I said this to "mother" I would have all hell unleashed upon me.

It kills me that I have spent so many years trying to appease this vicious bitch.

Hi all, I hope it's okay for me to post and share my story here. I have unfortunately over the past 18 months become completely estranged from my mum (my dad died when I was a teenager, I'm in my 40s now, no siblings or aunts/uncles/cousins, so she is truly my only biological family other than my dc).

I found out about a year and a half ago that her partner (have been together 15 years now) was convicted of sexually abusing his own daughter. She has always known. He told her on their first date apparently and she was okay with it, because she thinks everyone deserves a second chance. His ex-wife divorced him when the abuse came to light and his daughters have had no relationship with him since. They were mid-late teens when the abuse occurred and are now mid to late 30s. He has never met his own grandchildren.

My mum hid this from me for 15+ years. I always had a bad feeling about him. I couldn't put my finger on why. About 5 years ago, I found out that another close family member was a paedophile (and went to prison). My mum was very vocal at the time about this family member (in dh's family) and how we should cut ties with his family if they supported him. (We did actually go NC with several of dh's family members as a result). I've felt so uneasy about my mum's partner though that I have regularly, for years, done google searches on him to see if anything came up. It never did. Finally, one day last year during lockdown, something happened where he was being particularly abusive to her and me and I was wtf, and searched again as I often do. And there it all was! They don't live in the UK, so in the country they live in, criminal records are a bit easier to find online. What I found showed very clearly what he had been convicted of, which were quite serious child sex offences.

I actually spent about 3 months in therapy before I told my mum what I'd found. I had assumed she didn't know and I wanted to make sure that I was in the right place to support her. I assumed she would be devastated....But it turns out, she's always known. She doesn't think it's a big deal. It could have been worse. She thinks her partner is perfectly fine now and wouldn't do it to another child. This is despite the fact that in recent (pre-COVID) years, I know that they have become members of a 'family' naturist club. And they regularly go to this naturist club where there are young children and the children are 'required' to be naked. They can only have any clothing on if they are a non-potty trained baby or toddler in the pool area. One of her partner's convictions is for indecent exposure to a child. She totally doesn't think this is a problem and is convinced that his interest in attending this club is completely not sexual and all totally fine.

Anyway, to make a long story short, none of this has been okay with me. I was myself sexually abused as a child and have been raped as an adult. She doesn't care. In fact, when I disclosed it to her, her response was, 'well, maybe you should tell me what they actually did to you so I can better understand why you seem to be so upset about it'. I have attempted over the past year to get her to engage with me. Even though I think her behaviour is appalling, she is my only family, so ideally, I do wish we had a good relationship.

Since she found out I knew, she has gone months without speaking to me. I've reached out to friends of hers, some of whom are supportive. Others have treated me like I am some sort of criminal. I have no idea what she has told them. I know she hasn't shared anything with her closest friends about her partner's past, because they have been just as shocked as I have been. She has, over the past year, continued to post complete bullshit on Facebook to get sympathy from her online friends. Things like about how she loves her grandchildren so much (even though she hasn't attempted to speak to them in over a year and brought a convicted paedophile around them). The very last straw was she posted something about a mother's love and how she will always love and protect her daughter (me) unconditionally. I lost my shit with her and told her how inappropriate that was and how disappointed I was that she would post shit like that publically on Facebook (but had been ignoring my attempts to contact her for the previous 2 months). She then deleted me from Facebook and blocked me. I haven't heard from her since. This was a couple days before my birthday. Same as last year, she didn't acknowledge my birthday at all (or my kid's birthdays).

I know she is gone, sucked into a controlling relationship with an abusive man who has so warped her mind that she is happy to throw away everything for him (he is also very wealthy). But it makes me so sad. I have had lots of therapy and there are days when I think it's okay and feel like I have come to terms with it, and there are days when I don't.

The last straw was a couple weeks ago she sent a close friend (one of her best friends for the past 30 years) a nasty text message basically telling her to watch her back, as she knows this friend keeps in touch with me. The friend screenshot the text and sent it to me. She said I've blocked her on Facebook (nope, I didn't) and that I've refused to consider any way forward to having a relationship with her (actually I've offered up so many suggestions, she just refuses to engage or respond to any of my attempts to contact her, I email regularly, she ignores me). In fact, she told this friend she had just emailed me to ask to see my dc. She had. I emailed her right back and requested she engage with me so we could work on our relationship and get her back in their lives. She has ignored me since.

So just wanted to share my story and reach out to anyone else with a parent like mine. I suspect we won't have a relationship going forward. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again (even though, oddly, I've done nothing at all wrong). But I still feel so heartbroken about it all.

I have a narcissistic mother... I made the mistake of going to her with my marriage problems (in a sexless and loveless marriage... my husband shows no interest in me at all)... I knew it would be a mistake. She basically didn't offer any support, just pointed out all my faults. Here are some examples of her recent messages to me:

"There is something wrong with you. It's no good going to therapy and telling them your version cos you won't get the truth, just the answers you want. Straight away you are on the attack. I don't care. You are a disloyal manipulative spiteful person. We are all sick of hearing how you have 3 children. Grow up. You say you're do poor but every week you have bought stuff. You're not even a convincing liar."

"How can you expect someone to be loving to you when you threating divorce be and stamp your feet. No sooner have I told you this, you are straight in with more threats. You are so stupid. I told you he loves you because any other guy would have left you years ago but he has bitten his lip and endured all that you throw at him. Well i am bored telling you the obvious. If you are too stupid and want to throw away your marriage, that's up to you."

There is something wrong with you. It's no good going to therapy and telling them your version cos you won't get the truth, just the answers you want. Straight away you are on the attack. I don't care. You are a disloyal manipulative spiteful person. We are all sick of hearing how you have 3 children. Grow up. You say you're do poor but every week you have bought stuff. You're not even a convincing liar.

@SophiaLauren that’s absolutely awful. I feel so sad for you. It will hurt really so very badly that you get no support there. I hope you are getting support from therapy and/or other people during your divorce. It’s a natural instinct, I think, to reach out to people who are supposed to care and it’s terrible to get that response. Your mum is obviously a very angry person. We are your supporters here. This forum has been a lifeline to me.

@mindutopia
Wow. Just wow. It’s your mum’s needs all the way isn’t it? Do the men in her life fill some massive hole and her child is way down the list of priorities? Or is this new? I’m shocked - and I’m not easily - by the naturist club. She’s really got her fingers in her ears and going la la la. She’s so angry at you. You know the truth. All the truths. I feel so sad for your heartbreak. Huge hug.

@Escapingafter50years good for you. It’s a real shock to the system when you go ‘enough’. The toxic person in my life is my MIL so it’s nowhere as hard as ‘flesh and blood’ (or as I described it to my BF about the Hag - ‘scales and acid’). It’s so incredibly hard to look over the years of damage these people do and try to reconcile this with the examples of good parenting we see around us. All I can say is keep going and your tribe is here.

@IAAP ‘too stressed’. Awful. Awful. Awful. It’s shocking when you read it to yourself in B&W. I’ve had to keep writing Hag Life down so I don’t slip from very LC given my natural help instinct. I’m so so glad the meds are kicking in.

Hugs to everyone on this wet and grim Monday. Keep on keeping on.

@Pigeontown nightmare on having this with your family and wife. You’ve got a lot of wisdom on not repeating history. Recognising it all is a superpower, I think.

@Notmenottoday narcs are like toddlers or teenagers trying to provoke a reaction. It’s constant Narc Showtime which is exhausting. The spite is off the scale. I marvel at how utterly twisted it is to want to live a life in such a way to hurt other people. I’m so glad you have a great DH and children (but, obviously, that doesn’t lessen the pain)

Thanks@MonkeyfromManchester
Have been on here for ages and I've been following your situation. You write well (sorry I know that's not the point). But you sound so strong.

@mindutopia
I hope you don't mind but I've messaged you. Just because I have experience of naturism (parents not me). And I don't want to post on here as could be outing.

@Pigeontown this place is amazing, it really is. Over 18 months it’s helped me immeasurably and I feel much stronger. Just exhausted! You’ll know what I mean. They are so tiring.

Thank you about the writing. MM was laughing the other day at something RIDICULOUS the Hag had done* and said ‘we should write it down and it could be a comedy’. Little does he know…

*when she was first here in Jan 2020 for five LONG weeks one of her props to be an attention seeking Narc was a pillow or a cushion ‘no, that’s not comfortable’ ‘you’ve not arranged them properly’. In spring 2021 it mutated into throws on the sofa which she would need to be arranged around her in a certain way. We ended up calling this her Woolly Toga. It was a very fitting look to some 84 year wannabe tyrant that she rocked a Roman Emperor look. Sadly, we could only supply daytime TV rather than full on Gladiators vs Lions in our tiny house. Must. Try. Harder.

[quote MonkeyfromManchester]@Pigeontown this place is amazing, it really is. Over 18 months it’s helped me immeasurably and I feel much stronger. Just exhausted! You’ll know what I mean. They are so tiring.

Thank you about the writing. MM was laughing the other day at something RIDICULOUS the Hag had done* and said ‘we should write it down and it could be a comedy’. Little does he know…

*when she was first here in Jan 2020 for five LONG weeks one of her props to be an attention seeking Narc was a pillow or a cushion ‘no, that’s not comfortable’ ‘you’ve not arranged them properly’. In spring 2021 it mutated into throws on the sofa which she would need to be arranged around her in a certain way. We ended up calling this her Woolly Toga. It was a very fitting look to some 84 year wannabe tyrant that she rocked a Roman Emperor look. Sadly, we could only supply daytime TV rather than full on Gladiators vs Lions in our tiny house. Must. Try. Harder.[/quote]