Living Apart - New Norm

[1MillionDollars]

I've come to the realisation that I never want to live with a woman again, will never be financially entangled, will never be in a situation where I can't just leave.

I want to start a movement (Not Really)

The way we do things over the last 100 years has changed. You couldn't live together unless you were married or have kids, very taboo. Same sex couples adopting, raising kids...A big no no.

When we have kids we move in together as it's practical, just that really practical and it's the norm.

I think even with kids people should maintain their own spaces/places, the kids still see two loving parents there for them, but it becomes normal for one person to go back to their own place. I know it sounds like it might not work but if it was normal from a child's birth, it would just be that. Normal.

They say 50% of people getting married in 2021 will be divorced and probably a massive percentage of those unhappy and stuck.

Let's save the hurt and trauma of separation by just not doing it. I think living apart/that being normal is less harmful than splitting apart.

One thing I realise is that I just didn't have my own space, constantly feeling Im not doing this or that.

I realise a lot of things would need ironing out... but desperate living....Who's with me 😊

I think you must live on a different planet to most working class people. Most would be lucky to be able to afford live alone in a nice, decent, safe place that wasn't a shoe box and actually be able to afford paying the bills, but most people need to live with another person. There are exceptions, but if you live where the jobs are, choosing to live alone isn't an option that's affordable.

OP, you must know that your post was goading. You're a man (I assume) who's on Mumsnet, a site for women, and declared that you'll never live with another woman again.

@Monthstogo21

15 years here. Still separate houses. He is a messy bugger and I'm a neat freak. Both had houses before met. No kids. he is on my sofa at present eating my ice cream 🍦🍦🍦but will get me tea in the morning then I'll send him home before park run, dog walk, ou assignment and 4 hr work. Then he'll appear and we will walk dog he'll cook dinner. Rinse and repeat. 😁

. . . Go girl 😂

@EarthSight

OP, you must know that your post was goading. You're a man (I assume) who's on Mumsnet, a site for women, and declared that you'll never live with another woman again.

. . . Goading. No. This is a forum, a popular one where there are lots of people. Where does it say you have to be a man. I have been on here for 10 years back and forth.

You can replace the word woman with man if you want it's not gender based. I'm just a man.

Was never meant to be goading in any shape or form. Not my fault people took it like that.

Many women have responded without getting offended.

This is a place for everyone.

@Sammiekim

First of all - there is already a massive housing shortage an increase in homeless and a higher demand for housing.

Why on earth would it then be a sensible idea for every capable adult to live "independently."

Second of all living together doesnt have to be all room and gloom if navigated correctly. For example the space you crave can be found in seperate rooms in the house or hobbies outside of the house. But being together means majority of the time chores are shared. There is someone to cuddle at night. Someone to talk to when you've had a bad day. If done right a relationship should enhance your life and living situation. Life should feel easier with someone around. No ones indepence has to be lost to sharing. You can still have good seperate incomes, and separate lives.

. . . It's not all doom and gloom but....

There are so many people out there just not happy with it all. Even if you think they have a perfect relationship behind closed doors they don't. So many people on here, people I know etc.

I'm happy for those that are happy, but I just think, given the divorce stats which will rise, something isn't right.

@EarthSight

It’s posturing and goading at the same time.
OP seem to be here for approval or affirmation. But in a strange way.
This is a strange thread.

I don't think so. He's suggested that a less common but possibly growing trend might continue and that he can see advantages for all parties. Lots, including me have either fully or partially agreed. Others have pointed out flaws to do with practicalities, fair split of childcare etc. Others have immediately tried to undermine any opinion he offers because he's a man and therefore must only be coming at it from the perspective of a 'typical' male who shirks full on family life. He's not suggesting it should be forced on anyone or that it would suit everyone, just that maybe the assumption that a relationship must progress a certain way or not be valid is now outdated. Plenty of people live alone, and if your main reason for moving in is financial, as a pp said just now, as its apparently 'impossible' to afford to live alone its hardly surprising that so many relationships fail or limp along unhappily because they can't see how to afford to split. When you're forced to (as I was when ex left for ow) you work it out.

In USSR, people were sometimes forced to live in shared apartments - entire family would be cramped into one room, with other families occupying the other rooms in the same apartment, sharing the kitchen and the bathroom. Hell on earth. All in the name of 'housing shortage' mentioned above... not a good argument imho.

A little better but still not ideal - multi-generational living, when it happens because people can't afford to live separately from their parents or grown children, for financial or practical reasons.

Nuclear family in a single-family dwelling - better again. Children, if lucky, get a room each. Mum and Dad more often than not have to share one bedroom. Works for some people... I guess. Rich people and aristocrats may be able to have a house large enough where everyone gets their own bedroom, bathroom, and maybe even a study - much, much better way of living, but only few can afford it.

New-ish invention - 'nesting' arrangement. Kids stay put in the family home, mum and dad each have a small place elsewhere that is just theirs - a dream come true. Still couldn't afford it personally when I was married unfortunately.

Similar sort of thing recently becoming popular in Germany - a house or an apartment with kids-and-common areas in the middle, and separate parent 'quarters' to each side. May have one kitchen in the middle, or two separate ones. Can work for separated but co-parenting couples as well as married but wishing for more personal space.

"Guest marriage" - some couples actually get married (or stay married) but don't live under the same roof. Doesn't mean an open marriage, or doesn't have to at least. May still spend a lot of time together, stay for sleepovers at each other's place - just not every single night.

Quite a few options. As long as both partners agree and happy - why not.

I do this, and yes, it is as brilliant as you imagine. Partner of 7 years. I live with my children and he lives alone. His are grown up but visit regularly. I live in a city. He lives in a beach front apartment 30 minutes drive away. I stay with him for a few nights in the week while my kids are at their dad’s house. He spends the weekend at my house with the kids and me. I get Sunday night, Monday night, and Thursday night off. He has a ‘big’ job so he values the three nights off to work late, knowing that when he’s with me he either doesn’t work late and not at all at the weekend. It’s quite structured but it works really well. I might move in with him when my kids leave home, but there’s no rush and no need to think about it for a good while.

@HugeAckmansWife

I don't think so. He's suggested that a less common but possibly growing trend might continue and that he can see advantages for all parties. Lots, including me have either fully or partially agreed. Others have pointed out flaws to do with practicalities, fair split of childcare etc. Others have immediately tried to undermine any opinion he offers because he's a man and therefore must only be coming at it from the perspective of a 'typical' male who shirks full on family life. He's not suggesting it should be forced on anyone or that it would suit everyone, just that maybe the assumption that a relationship must progress a certain way or not be valid is now outdated. Plenty of people live alone, and if your main reason for moving in is financial, as a pp said just now, as its apparently 'impossible' to afford to live alone its hardly surprising that so many relationships fail or limp along unhappily because they can't see how to afford to split. When you're forced to (as I was when ex left for ow) you work it out.

. . . Thank you.

@BlueLorikeet

I don't get / care about the housing shortage argument either and your example helps highlight that.

Why should people be forced to live together.

There is plenty of land in this country and the gov (yes their responsibility) need to think differently and sort it out. They give contracts to developers for affordable housing but the developers get around it and the housing is not affordable, only to the middle class and single.

Why can't we build up. I'm not talking 70's tower blocks but beautiful towers with communal areas and gardens. Spacious rooms. We only have to look to different countries to see how the do things.

Years ago I saw a documentary on a building complex created in Scandinavia. The way it was designed encouraged friendliness/ community / interaction and you didn't feel like you were sardines in a tin.

I bet some on here worrying about the housing shortage live in houses bigger than what they need.

@1MillionDollars sorry you lost me when you said " I dont care about the housing shortage."

Nice for people like you that can comfortably say that in a house. Try telling a homeless person that to their face. Or a single mother that has been waiting on a council list for years just for a box one bedroom flat because there is a massive unbalance of supply and demand. .

How ignorant of you.

Incase you didnt know the uk, and majority of other counties are completely over populated. Where I live in Surrey it is so densely packed that any tiny bit of land is taken up and now been built up sky high. I kid you not down the road from me there was a sewage overflow because they built up cheap affordable housing by the dozen and did not consider the over fill. Residents are constantly petitioning against more builds. Councils ignore and persist. Builders rub their grummy selfish hands with glee. Meanwhile nature around us is being destroyed. Its horrific. But you want everyone to have their own homes just for the sake of it. Pure selfishness.

[quote Sammiekim]@1MillionDollars sorry you lost me when you said " I dont care about the housing shortage."

Nice for people like you that can comfortably say that in a house. Try telling a homeless person that to their face. Or a single mother that has been waiting on a council list for years just for a box one bedroom flat because there is a massive unbalance of supply and demand. .

How ignorant of you.[/quote]
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I meant in terms of this thread and for argument sake.

There are plenty of homes available, plenty of land to build and house people.

Didn't George Clarke highlight an entire area/street up north that was just empty. Needed some work but nobody did anything and was probably sold to a developer who would build even more unaffordable housing.

The housing market is a joke in this country. People paying £1500 per month for 2 beds but denied a £1000 mortgage because they are paying £1500 rent so can't save for a deposit.

It's an absolute joke and my opinion is they don't want to fix it or not prioritising it until the streets are full of people. Kicking the can down the road.

@Sammiekim

For your information. I have massively struggled to get a place where I can have my kids due to my circumstances. Try getting passed no DSS and affordability checks at estate agents. Even private landlords can carry out massive checks now and even if you can afford it, estate agents want you earning 3x the rent.

It has been stressful and depressing but luckily my parents have been able to help.

@Sammiekim

Before you can even arrange to view a place you have to answer an affordability question or have a guarantor.

As I said my parents were able to help out but even when you offer a HUGE if not all the rent up front, it's still not easy and nobody is interested.

I have found myself in a black hole of the system.

Doesn't stop me from thinking about a hypothetical situation though.

@Sammiekim

Incase you didnt know the uk, and majority of other counties are completely over populated. Where I live in Surrey it is so densely packed that any tiny bit of land is taken up and now been built up sky high. I kid you not down the road from me there was a sewage overflow because they built up cheap affordable housing by the dozen and did not consider the over fill. Residents are constantly petitioning against more builds. Councils ignore and persist. Builders rub their grummy selfish hands with glee. Meanwhile nature around us is being destroyed. Its horrific. But you want everyone to have their own homes just for the sake of it. Pure selfishness.

. . . Ooooh just relax

@Sammiekim

You have kids???If so isn't that pure selfishness in an over populated world??

Is it a good idea to build up on potentiable arable or oxygen producing land for spacing people out?

@Sammiekim

I put 100% on the fact that if we lived in a country like Russia and you receive a letter saying you must now live in a 1 bedroom house with 4 people, you'd be marching in the streets with disgust and would throw your housing shortage opinions out the window.

@1MillionDollars children needing housing is ALOT different and not even comparable to two consenting adults that have decided to have a relationship but just wanted the space to suit their lifestyle. Come off your high horse

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

Is it a good idea to build up on potentiable arable or oxygen producing land for spacing people out?

. . . I'm not a conservationist or a builder.

I am sure there are better solutions to what currently goes on.

This world will have no bloody greenery left at the rate we are going. I'm literally seeing it happen before my very eyes. I think the people that need housing first are the VUNERABLE ( children, single parents, homeless people, teenagers with no where to go, people that come into this country with nothing ) they should all be prioritised before we start on the "couples that want SpAcE from each other"

[quote Sammiekim]@1MillionDollars children needing housing is ALOT different and not even comparable to two consenting adults that have decided to have a relationship but just wanted the space to suit their lifestyle. Come off your high horse[/quote]
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You make a good point but to attack me and call me selfish is unnecessary?

Do you have children?

If so aren't you being selfish and thinking of just you?

@Sammiekim

This world will have no bloody greenery left at the rate we are going. I'm literally seeing it happen before my very eyes. I think the people that need housing first are the VUNERABLE ( children, single parents, homeless people, teenagers with no where to go, people that come into this country with nothing ) they should all be prioritised before we start on the "couples that want SpAcE from each other"

. . . Fair enough but this thread isn't about that. It's about would people and relationships fair better if we all lived separately.

Would we/children fair better if people weren't stuck, unhappy, would we save the pain on separation.

Divorce rates have risen and risen and will no doubt continue to rise. We have to ask ourselves the questions WHY?