Living Apart - New Norm

[1MillionDollars]

I've come to the realisation that I never want to live with a woman again, will never be financially entangled, will never be in a situation where I can't just leave.

I want to start a movement (Not Really)

The way we do things over the last 100 years has changed. You couldn't live together unless you were married or have kids, very taboo. Same sex couples adopting, raising kids...A big no no.

When we have kids we move in together as it's practical, just that really practical and it's the norm.

I think even with kids people should maintain their own spaces/places, the kids still see two loving parents there for them, but it becomes normal for one person to go back to their own place. I know it sounds like it might not work but if it was normal from a child's birth, it would just be that. Normal.

They say 50% of people getting married in 2021 will be divorced and probably a massive percentage of those unhappy and stuck.

Let's save the hurt and trauma of separation by just not doing it. I think living apart/that being normal is less harmful than splitting apart.

One thing I realise is that I just didn't have my own space, constantly feeling Im not doing this or that.

I realise a lot of things would need ironing out... but desperate living....Who's with me 😊

I agree BoredAndUnfulfilled

But your “ if is managed right with both parties fully committed to pulling their weight”

Is not compatible with the OP’s “ having that space that you can escape to when needed without any guilt or repercussions”

When you look at society level, so often it means men putting their needs above their children’s needs, and women picking up the shortfall

With tiny children often the situation is that you simply can’t “escape” to your own space when you “need” to. It’s one of the reasons that parenting with babies and toddlers is known to be hard going. Unless you are prepared to take advantage of the other parent. And often men do just escape and leave the hard work to someone else.

I lived with my exh for more than 20 years. The practicalities of sharing a home were neither what brought us together nor what kept us together. We spent most of the time (15 years) in rented flats and each could have moved out whenever we wanted without much fuss. That's pretty typical here in Germany and I think it's a pretty good setup. Something between what you are describing and the UK system: it's not as hard if you need to break up, but doesn't actively encourage you to do so by separating you from your partner.

What broke up my marriage was when my partner had to spend several years working in another town, only coming back at the weekends. Absence does not always make the heart grow fonder. Well, sometimes it makes your heart grow fonder for other women :)

Even as it was, when we lived together, over time the majority of the housework and childcare still fell to me, as the person who started out earning less. It was bad enough for my career and happiness as it was. If my exh had lived somewhere else, he would have ended up doing even less. He'd probably sign up to your scheme :)

Hahahahahaha.

That's all.

Oh no, I have something more constructive to add..

Hahahahahhahahahahaha.

Have a lovely day!

@altmember

Yes I am, but honestly it has nothing to do with it. I had conversations with a friend about this years and years ago. I said that if me and ex ever split up, I won't live with a women again.

So, this isn't some thing that has surfaced out of my situation. I have lived with 2 people. One for 5 the other for 10. I've just come to the conclusion it's not for me. I have 2 lovely kids now. That's enough for me.

I'm going to be concentrating on them and me. My ex's sister has raised her son on her own for 10+ years and not had many men or relationships in her life. I think she has made the right decision, but her family have thought it strange, because they can't get their head around it.

@Grimsknee

That's fine. I've not been on here for a couple of years so I've not seen those posts, which is why I'm asking.

I'm not getting belligerent, this is just a debate to me and I'm just not agreeing with everything people say, the say something, I question it. I'm allowed to do that.

Some people have agreed/disagreed, others have said things I want to question and 1 has basically told me who I am and what I'm feeling from very little information and thrown massive assumptions and judgements out there.

@RichTeaRichTea

I agree BoredAndUnfulfilled

But your “ if is managed right with both parties fully committed to pulling their weight”

Is not compatible with the OP’s “ having that space that you can escape to when needed without any guilt or repercussions”

When you look at society level, so often it means men putting their needs above their children’s needs, and women picking up the shortfall

Not sure who commented about “both parties fully committed to pulling their weight” but it wasn’t me.

@YukoandHiro

See. People aren't listening. I said during the baby years things would have to be different. At no point did I say the man just leaves and goes home leaving the crying and hungry baby to themselves.

For the record, during the baby years I would sleep upstairs. Baby would wake up, ex would feed, then bring baby up to me, I would change and settle baby and put back to sleep. I could do this as I worked from home.

People are just assuming this is what I'm saying and assuming this is what men would want as it works for them. A lot of women do it on their own anyway because men (generally) are still getting up and going to work so wives are being considerate of them.

I raise a to you. I totally agree as far life after divorce with kids is concerned. I don’t see myself living with another man again. I don’t want to inflict blending families on my child, different parenting styles, domestic drudgery and constant negotiations. I love my space with my son after divorce. I think living apart allows you to retain your identity whilst getting the best out of a relationship.

@RichTeaRichTea

Why breezy. I'm actually saying things should be shared.

Problem is I don't think people talk about it upfront / beforehand.

We worked out who was doing what. What days I was cooking, cleaning, childcare especially in the beginning. I've been lucky enough to be at home working since both of mine were born. I've done what women have done, apart from breastfeeding. It was hard but has been amazing to be with them nearly every hour of the day. I know first hand how hard it is for women, who's husbands go to work all day and they just look after baby. It's bloody hard.

So. I am offended when people think I am being breezy and think I don't know what I'm talking about and think I just want women to do the grind. I treated having kids as a job and tried to organise things and make things fair so we both didn't suffer or be completely stressed out and worn out.

for one person to go back to their own place
Would this always be the same person?

Part of the problem is inadequate housing where there is not enough space in a normal house to have any alone time. I have always been lucky enough to have always had my own room (an office) in every house my family has lived in. It’s sacrosanct. It’s mine. I retreat here when they all get too much for me. My XH had the garden and loft as ‘his’.

@Milomonster

I raise a to you. I totally agree as far life after divorce with kids is concerned. I don’t see myself living with another man again. I don’t want to inflict blending families on my child, different parenting styles, domestic drudgery and constant negotiations. I love my space with my son after divorce. I think living apart allows you to retain your identity whilst getting the best out of a relationship.

. . . 👍🏽

I will not subject my children to another women or family, I will not subject a women to my children.

I've raised 2 step kids. It was hard and horrible in my situation, I know other's experience will be different, but from my experience I will not do that to them, they will never have anothe mum / step mum.

@JustThisLastLittleBit

Part of the problem is inadequate housing where there is not enough space in a normal house to have any alone time. I have always been lucky enough to have always had my own room (an office) in every house my family has lived in. It’s sacrosanct. It’s mine. I retreat here when they all get too much for me. My XH had the garden and loft as ‘his’.

. . . Yes. Space. Felt like I didn't have it. Also feel I probably needed it more than my partner, not saying she didn't need it either.

Not only the space as in physical space, but emotional space as in not feeling suffocated by partner, their needs, wants and how things should be done, when and where.

@1MillionDollars

Kudos to you for putting in the work you did raising the kids. It’s bloody hard work, and you seem to appreciate that (which is nice to hear from a man).

You’re always going to get grief from people on a public forum like this, especially one predominantly aimed at women. Don’t sweat it.

I think the main issue with what you’re suggesting is that it is so far from the societal norm that it rubs people up the wrong way. Personally I wholeheartedly agree with you - but I don’t think there will ever be a one size fits all solution, it’s about having the self-awareness to recognise and accept that just because society expects us to follow a set path, that path isn’t necessarily the right one for us as an individual/a couple. It must always be about working out what works in your own situation and being prepared to compromise whilst still maintaining healthy boundaries.

We already don't have enough housing in this country!

If millions of people started living in two houses/flats instead of one, how would that work?

My best friend has been with her boyfriend for 30 years and they have never lived together. They are 10 miles apart, each with a 3-bedroomed house each to themselves. She says it's the secret to their relationship's success.

It doesn't surprise me that a man thinks this is a great scenario. Don't get me wrong, I know many women would prefer to live apart too. However, realistically living apart is mostly a man's way of dipping in and out of parenthood and a relationship whenever he likes. Popping over to his partners house for the day for the nice bits, dinner, sex and and a film and then off he goes to his own house for a good night's sleep whilst the mother of his child/dren spends the evening clearing up after his children and waking with them in the night!

So because people get divorced no one should live together?

It is disturbing to me that people go into marriage already thinking about divorce.

It’s interesting.. I was reading some things about MRAs and you should like a parrot of what they believe.

“It’s going to fail anyway so why bother”.

Being bitter is very unattractive.

[quote BoredAndUnfulfilled]@1MillionDollars

Kudos to you for putting in the work you did raising the kids. It’s bloody hard work, and you seem to appreciate that (which is nice to hear from a man).

You’re always going to get grief from people on a public forum like this, especially one predominantly aimed at women. Don’t sweat it.

I think the main issue with what you’re suggesting is that it is so far from the societal norm that it rubs people up the wrong way. Personally I wholeheartedly agree with you - but I don’t think there will ever be a one size fits all solution, it’s about having the self-awareness to recognise and accept that just because society expects us to follow a set path, that path isn’t necessarily the right one for us as an individual/a couple. It must always be about working out what works in your own situation and being prepared to compromise whilst still maintaining healthy boundaries.[/quote]
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Thanks......Oooooh I fully now what Mumsnet is like, been on and off here for 10 years.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Even I followed societal norms and I just don't think it worked for me and there are other solutions out there that might have been better, but we all just do the same thing.

Maybe in 10 years there will be more and more stories of people adopting this approach from the birth of their children (some how) From x years to y years couple follow a certain approach where things are shared somehow, nobody is left holding the baby and then from a to b years another approach can be adopted.

As you said. This one solution fits all, isn't a solution for everybody but we are judged if we do it differently. But maybe this tried and tested approach is outdated, stupid and damaging.

Who knows. I'd love to come up with a solution that breaks away from this.

As another poster said. Children need to be in a loving stable home with two parents and they would be in a living and stable home, just a different one that they would be used to from birth.

@Notonthenewrug

It doesn't surprise me that a man thinks this is a great scenario. Don't get me wrong, I know many women would prefer to live apart too. However, realistically living apart is mostly a man's way of dipping in and out of parenthood and a relationship whenever he likes. Popping over to his partners house for the day for the nice bits, dinner, sex and and a film and then off he goes to his own house for a good night's sleep whilst the mother of his child/dren spends the evening clearing up after his children and waking with them in the night!

. . . @Notonthenewrug

See your just not listening and being a man hater. At what point did I say the situation should just suit the man. I have always said that something should be worked out if it possibly can to suit both.

@MarshmallowSwede

So because people get divorced no one should live together?

It is disturbing to me that people go into marriage already thinking about divorce.

It’s interesting.. I was reading some things about MRAs and you should like a parrot of what they believe.

“It’s going to fail anyway so why bother”.

Being bitter is very unattractive.

. . . @MarshmallowSwede

Oooooh brother!!!

Oh, more interested in argument than in the posts discussing the ideas seriously. Shame.

OP, I think your mother has a point. It’s too bad you can’t hear her and or self reflect.

The more you talk - the more it sounds like a man who actually resents having done his share of parenting.
You keep bringing up that for whole 3 years you did more than half, because your partner was retraining. Did you expect a medal for that?
If every woman who did more than a fair share for a time, or over time - just picked up and left - there will be no marriages left.
Except that most women don’t do that.
They stay and continue raising their kids and keeping the house going. They can’t do a runner and escape the responsibility of parenting by moving away. Which is what you have done.

And now you talk about having been abused. And having to escape it. All because you stayed at home and did your share of parenting. Seriously. Obnoxious doesn’t even begin to describe it.

You can live in your victim bubble all you want. But a leader of new world order you are not.
You are just a man who can’t get along with with a partner in a relationship. I am sure the mother of your two children wasn’t the easiest person to live with. But you also sound like a difficult person in so many ways.

So - yes. You’d do yourself and any of your future partners a favour by never living with anyone again. On that I think you and female population of the world can agree.

Yep. I don't think I'll live with a man again. I'm super happy in a relationship but living apart. Best of every world imo. I know he would like to live together but accepts us living apart.

Sounds a wonderful idea if you can afford it and no-one is expecting housing benefit to fund a choice and propping up the housing market.

Reality is that the working class are ever more struggling and single households ever more unaffordable for the many.

I live in an expensive area and my DC would struggle to rent anything other than a room in shared house on their sole salaries.