Living Apart - New Norm

[1MillionDollars]

I've come to the realisation that I never want to live with a woman again, will never be financially entangled, will never be in a situation where I can't just leave.

I want to start a movement (Not Really)

The way we do things over the last 100 years has changed. You couldn't live together unless you were married or have kids, very taboo. Same sex couples adopting, raising kids...A big no no.

When we have kids we move in together as it's practical, just that really practical and it's the norm.

I think even with kids people should maintain their own spaces/places, the kids still see two loving parents there for them, but it becomes normal for one person to go back to their own place. I know it sounds like it might not work but if it was normal from a child's birth, it would just be that. Normal.

They say 50% of people getting married in 2021 will be divorced and probably a massive percentage of those unhappy and stuck.

Let's save the hurt and trauma of separation by just not doing it. I think living apart/that being normal is less harmful than splitting apart.

One thing I realise is that I just didn't have my own space, constantly feeling Im not doing this or that.

I realise a lot of things would need ironing out... but desperate living....Who's with me 😊

I don't get the housing shortage. Are you saying that people should live together to solve the shortage. Surely most people live separately before they get together, why not just keep the same situation. There is no rule or law that says people together/ those that have kids should live together. That's not a problem couples should have to think about.

Well normally people own/rent a small house/flat before they meet their partner. Then they often need to combine resources in order to get a bigger place suitable for housing DC.

Or does just one of them have the space for the DC and therefore end up doing all the work? And Daddy has a little shag pad? Or can they both afford a 4 bedroom house with garden?

Honestly you sound like Carrie Bradshaw wanting ‘2 days off’ her marriage.

If all couples lived separately, think of the number of houses we would need to house them.

You know what. Foolishly I didn't think about both people needing say 2 to 3 bedrooms. Can't believe I overlooked that.

Why do people assume that I think the man wants the shag pad and the women does all the work. I understand women generally get the short end of the stick but in my experience and especially the last 3 years I did more than my fair share and I am sure there are lots of men out there that do too.

I am talking about sharing it ALL equally, finding a system where this works. Hypothetical maybe but still a division of labour.

When people talk about women getting stuck with doing it all, it annoys me because I bloody did loads.

I never mentioned the practicalities of running two households. I only said in my situation it's completely impractical to blend our two families.

You're right though, couples shouldn't live together for practical reasons. Just as they shouldn't in a relationship for practical reasons, and they certainly shouldn't be having children for 'practical reasons'. Couples shouldn't be starting families of they can't cope with cohabiting.

Most people don't have kids and then decide to move in together though do they? They get together, live together, and then decide to have children together (even if that was a common aim from the outset).

Obviously it's quite different if you start a relationship where you aren't going to have children together. I think you're looking at your own personal position and assuming that would work for everyone else. When it clearly doesn't for young couples starting families.

I've come to the realisation that I never want to live with a woman again, will never be financially entangled, will never be in a situation where I can't just leave.

Your opening statement makes you sound like an avoidant/commitment phobe.

I think that sounds great.

I hated the night feeds and sleep deprivation that came with having a newborn so it would have been lovely to hand all of that over to DH when he got back from work and go to my own little place around the corner where I could blob out and sleep in peace while he looked after our baby at home.

I might suggest it for the next baby! I will be a much more chilled and happy person if I have space from him and our DC and time to have long lies at the weekend. And I'm sure he won't mind picking up the childcare and chores because, after all, having kids is just like a hobby for men. I can maybe come round at weekends to take the kids to the park.

Sounds fab to me. Where do I sign up?

Why do people assume that I think the man wants the shag pad and the women does all the work.

OP, you said upthread that you were a SAHD for a few years, but this is very unusual to be honest. Most mothers do the primary care.

@altmember

10+ years in a relationship and just because I've decided, like many others I won't live with a partner again because it doesn't work for me, I'm a commitment phobe. I've just come to realise I value my space to much and the hassle of living with someone just brings problems.

By your logic, if I said I never want to have kids, I must hate kids.

Sheesh.

@TheDuchessOfBeddington

I worked from home. We shared it, but if she got a job which at times she did I would pick up the slack.

I have done more than my fair share, I will tell you that now, which is why I get annoyed when women are the martyrs here....Yes I do realise, it is mainly women who are the primary cares in most cases, but not in mine and for the last 3 years I did 80% of it. Even my mum says 'now you know how women feel' I just don't think that's helpful.

[quote 1MillionDollars]@altmember

10+ years in a relationship and just because I've decided, like many others I won't live with a partner again because it doesn't work for me, I'm a commitment phobe. I've just come to realise I value my space to much and the hassle of living with someone just brings problems.

By your logic, if I said I never want to have kids, I must hate kids.

Sheesh.
[/quote]
Ah right, you're fresh out of a relationship. Clearly it'll take some time to 'get over' it. Many people meet someone new and eventually decide to cohabit again. Some people stay bitter and twisted until the day they die, and never love again.

I've been where you are. Things will get better, if you let them. Or you can choose not to have an amicable relationship with your ex and create stress for both of you. We did shared care for a while, and it's bloody hard work to juggle and plan everything with separate households, do 60 miles a day of school runs etc. Now I have the kids full time it's actually easier than 50/50.

Eh. Every couple of weeks there's a thread started by a woman who vows never again to entangle herself residentially or financially to a man. I myself am almost 100% certain that if anything happened to my very happy marriage I would never live with anyone again.

This is a shift in thinking for a lot of women, a lightbulb moment of realisation that they can be happy and secure living alone ... It is really not so revolutionary for a man to announce the same, OP!
Men have been deciding families and cohabiting are all too hard since time immemorial because society has always been set up for them to have independence. It's only recently that women have that same independence.
I have to say it's a bit obnoxious of you to post "I just want to see what people think" then get belligerent when a bunch of women have different opinions or when they question the (YOUR WORD) practicalities of raising kids across two separate households.

@category12

Obviously a split down the middle of duties goes without saying.

No, no, it really needs saying and some sort of agreement worked out. Otherwise the resident parent will get the shitty end of the deal. Surely it makes more sense and is fairer if both parents share the second residence as well - then they can alternate who is getting the "space".

Otherwise it's just exploiting the other person.

Agree with this.

And if you have small children, you can’t just leave guilt-free without some sort of co-operation about who is caring for the children. I don’t mean leave the relationship, I mean physically walk out of the house whenever you like - it’s not fair for one person to have that right and not the other. Many men do seem to retain the right after children and women tend not to. This isn’t forever as the children get older, but you have to be realistic about it.

Of course it won't work.
Your kid is screaming at 3am. Do you ring the other parent, drag them out of bed and tell your child, wait until your other parent arrives to calm you down?
Likewise your baby/child is throwing up, do you remove yourself from the situation and ring the remote parent as they need to do 50% of the childrearing?
How on earth is this better for the child?
Basically you are saying it's better for children to live as if they are from a broken home with each parent living separately.
Well no, research will tell you it is better for children to live in stable, loving environments with 2 parents who love each other and put each other and their family first.
It's only good for parents to separate if they are quite crap together and don't get on.
Living separately is fine (if you can afford it) but not where young children and babies are concerned. Parents with newborns need someone else to help them.
If you don't have children together then fine, live apart, I can see the benefits there.
What I believe is that more people should refrain from ever having children in the first place.
I do think we are sold a lie.
Why logically with so called human intelligence and modern living, do people keep having children?
Surely life is far easier for most humans not to have them.
I also think for many, many people committing all to one person for life is not going to happen. So why pretend that you are able to do it? I know social norms push people into having a child and then staying together etc but really, if it's not for you don't do it!

There’s not enough space or housing for e wry one to live alone.

This thread is sort of hilarious because for women with small children, it’s not the fact that it hasn’t dawned on us that it would be lovely to have the freedom to go off and be by yourself at the drop of a hat that stops us doing just that - it’s, you know, the fact that it would be dangerous and neglectful

Only a man would say this about the baby years. Man, even when they've been through it with a partner they really have no idea do they?

@RichTeaRichTea

This thread is sort of hilarious because for women with small children, it’s not the fact that it hasn’t dawned on us that it would be lovely to have the freedom to go off and be by yourself at the drop of a hat that stops us doing just that - it’s, you know, the fact that it would be dangerous and neglectful

Yes it's a bit "A man! A man has arrived to share his manly view that raising children is hard work and it would be better for society if primary caregivers had time for themselves!"

In fact this thread has just confirmed to me again that if my (fairly happy) marriage broke down, or I was widowed, there is nothing on earth that would convince me to be in ANY sort of relationship with a man again, living together or not. They have no idea what mothering takes.

@Grimsknee. I have to admit I didn't read it that way. I read it as society should be more accepting of one parent having children, living away from them, visiting now and then and not really taking financial responsibility for them. I might be being unfair but, since one parent actually has to be present 24/7 to care for the kids, I assumed by 'one parent' getting to live alone, the OP meant the man. Because he says this arrangement should be in place from the baby's birth and of course it's going to be difficult for a newborn (especially if bf) to be away from their mother.

So I'm afraid I read this as men should be able to dodge in and out of parenthood... have all the benefits and much less of the hassle.

[quote SausageSizzle]@Grimsknee. I have to admit I didn't read it that way. I read it as society should be more accepting of one parent having children, living away from them, visiting now and then and not really taking financial responsibility for them. I might be being unfair but, since one parent actually has to be present 24/7 to care for the kids, I assumed by 'one parent' getting to live alone, the OP meant the man. Because he says this arrangement should be in place from the baby's birth and of course it's going to be difficult for a newborn (especially if bf) to be away from their mother.

So I'm afraid I read this as men should be able to dodge in and out of parenthood... have all the benefits and much less of the hassle.[/quote]
Agree. Wouldn’t it be lovely to only have to do the easy bits of childrearing?

I would love to do this in a few years, I think it could actually save my marriage in the long term once the kids are all adults.

I love to renovate houses and my DH yearns for this to stop, so he doesn't have to get involved. He wants a quiet relaxing time.

I would also just like my own space. We have lived together since we were 19 but, i couldn't afford to do this without us selling our current house. So in my head we sell this one, buy a small new build for DH and a small wreck for me.

In truth I don't think he would go for it though because of the social normality aspect of it. He is very bothered about how he is judged and would see it as some sort of failure.

I’m in! As a woman with high functioning autism just coming out of a long term relationship, I am definitely with you on not wanting to live with a partner again. Having had 2 major relationships in the past 16 years and feeling trapped in both of them, I’ve come to realise how much my independence means to me.

I think everyone can see the benefit of living separately from a partner for many people. It’s the OP’s breezy “of course everything must be shared” when it comes to parenting that is being questioned

I think a lot of it comes down to societal norms and expectations. You meet someone, fall in love, get married, but a house together, raise a family and live happily ever after. Awesome. Only for a significant percentage, that isn’t actually the case nowadays, is it?
I don’t see why two people who love each other can’t live separately if that’s what works for them. It wouldn’t work for everyone, but for some it is a much healthier option. Yes, if there are children involved then a lot of things would need to be discussed and agreed upon, as is the case when people get divorced, but there’s no reason that it can’t work as long as the lines of communication remain open and both parties are flexible when required. It’s called effective co-parenting, and it can work brilliantly whether the parents are still in a relationship or not - it takes a certain amount of maturity on both sides, but in fairness both parties should have that level of maturity if they have a child together anyway.

I'm not 'bitter and twisted' and swearing to never love again as a pp said, but I did have every aspect of my life turned upside down when ex decided to fuck off with OW. I won't ever put myself in that position again so maintain my own place, with my kids and see my dp of 5 years on evenings and weekends when ex has them. If in the future, when the kids are grown, we do move in, I will maintain my assets independently.
I think if a couple can organise things so they live v close by, there's no reason why that can't be a stable home environment for children. Home isn't just about the physical space and if is managed right with both parties fully committed to pulling their weight there's no reason to think that is any less stable and happy than a cohabiting couple arguing about whose turn it is to take the bins out or what to spend money on.

@SausageSizzle I was trying to be cutting, but I actually think you've pinpointed my female socialisation subconsciously making me put a charitable spin on the OP....