Page 4 | What do I do now? Ashamed

thisplaceisweird · 18/10/2021 10:13

@LetHimHaveIt

I don't understand this at all. If it wasn't hard enough to hurt him or move him, then it's not 'physical violence', is it? You shouldn't have done it. But you don't need to ring round apologising to friends or prostrate yourself in front of your kids 🙄 and he doesn't need to have an elaborate think about his next move. If you don't much like each other, split up.

Agree, all very dramatic!!

timeisnotaline · 18/10/2021 10:16

He didn’t want to talk at all, he just wanted to pontificate on how he’s perfect and your not. You haven’t actually had a conversation with him. He’s loving that you are grovelling isn’t he? It doesn’t sound very healthy for you.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 18/10/2021 10:27

@drpet49

** If this was the other way around, we'd all be telling you to leave him - once he's been violent once then he has shown his true colours, it will only escalate from here etc.

You know there's no excuse for what you did. Bringing up issues about snide comments etc is deflecting from what happened - there's never an excuse for physical violence.**

^Completely agree with the above. I also think OP is minimising what happened. Eve her kids are angry at her.

This.

Not that they're there yet, they're only ittle, but I tell my DC the same when they've been fighting. It's not ok to respond to words with physical force, the moment you do that you're the one in the wrong. No excuses as an adult, you walk away, you seek help, you leave, you don't get physical.

TheAntiGardener · 18/10/2021 10:31

@Ledition - I agree with every word. I don’t believe a single push as described by the op from anyone, male or female, is in itself ‘abuse’. It’s more of a serious red flag coming from a stronger party though (average man v average woman, able-bodied person v person with disability, younger person v elderly) as abuse is more common this way around and the more vulnerable party is at great risk if violence escalates.

I had to explain to my partner, who has a very loud voice, why it was so intimidating when he raised his voice when annoyed or frustrated. He didn’t get it because he’s not at all afraid when I raise mine. But he is much bigger than I am and it makes me feel physically afraid.

I know this is unpopular on here, but I find women trying to be scrupulously fair to men on this subject frustrating. This is not the first thread where a woman has reacted physically to a man’s goading and all attention has been on her ‘abuse’.

None of this is to say that men do not suffer DV and should be supported when they do.

WhoWearsShortShorts · 18/10/2021 10:36

So if he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for, spell it out.

"When you say xxx it makes me feel xxx. You need to stop doing xxx because it makes me feel xxx."

Maybe you do need to have a think about the friendship and why these friends cause you to act in a certain way but if you are crystal clear about why you don't like what your H said and he continues to do it or minimises the way it makes you feel then you definitely have a H issue.

Hadjab · 18/10/2021 10:36

I know that. I said that above, I was thinking about things, trying to work out why it happened and why I was so angry

I think you’ve answered that yourself, already

I have been a bit on edge - a few years back, my friend said something negative about my dd, not realising that my dd was in earshot, and things were sticky between us for a while after that. And I'm more conscious of wanting the dc to 'be good' so that my friend thinks well of them…We were supposed to be seeing the same friends tonight. I have messaged them and made an excuse. I just don't want to go with such an awful atmosphere

TheVeryThing · 18/10/2021 10:37

Is accessing private counselling an option for you?
You should treat this as a pretty big indicator that something is not right with you. Posters will come on this thread and argue all sorts in term of who is to blame but none of us has the information to say what is going on.
It sounds like there is a lot to unpick and I don't think that you are going to sort it by talking it through with your husband.
It also sounds like you are very sensitive to how others perceive you. If I overheard one of my friends criticising my kids I would be very annoyed and would not put my children in that position again.
For now, all you can do is apologise to those you have upset and try to get yourself back on an even keel. Longer term you do need to work out what brought you do this and that may require outside help.
Good luck.

KurtWilde · 18/10/2021 10:40

What I'm reading here is:

Man pushes woman's buttons.
Woman pushes man physically.
Response of the majority: Oh well yeah you shouldn't have done it but he goaded you into it, why are we focusing on you physically pushing your husband when it's clearly him in the wrong, he's the abusive one for goading you? And he's bigger than you so he shouldn't have even batted an eyelid or made you feel bad.

Now imagine it was:
Woman pushes man's buttons.
Man pushes woman physically.
Response if the majority: He's showing you who he really is, this is just the start of it, he'll escalate it from here, are you safe? LTB

And those of you who've been on MN long enough KNOW this is the response a woman who's been pushed by her partner would get, so please don't say the double standards on this board don't exist because you know they do.

Original poster

whitehorsesdonotlie · 18/10/2021 10:43

@CheekyHobson - If he doesn't want to agree to stop speaking to you in a way that you find unpleasant to the degree that you end up lashing out at him, this might be something to really sit with, and ask yourself what that says about how much he values your happiness. In fact how well you feel respected and heard in your relationship.

Sometimes we spend so long feeling fundamentally unsatisfied in a relationship that we come to believe a kind of lack of outright misery is all we can or should expect, and lose sight of the fact that relationships are meant to add to our life, not detract from it.

This resonates a lot. Thank you.

I have looked up counsellors this morning. For me.

OP posts:

Coronawireless · 18/10/2021 10:46

[quote TheAntiGardener]@Ledition - I agree with every word. I don’t believe a single push as described by the op from anyone, male or female, is in itself ‘abuse’. It’s more of a serious red flag coming from a stronger party though (average man v average woman, able-bodied person v person with disability, younger person v elderly) as abuse is more common this way around and the more vulnerable party is at great risk if violence escalates.

I had to explain to my partner, who has a very loud voice, why it was so intimidating when he raised his voice when annoyed or frustrated. He didn’t get it because he’s not at all afraid when I raise mine. But he is much bigger than I am and it makes me feel physically afraid.

I know this is unpopular on here, but I find women trying to be scrupulously fair to men on this subject frustrating. This is not the first thread where a woman has reacted physically to a man’s goading and all attention has been on her ‘abuse’.

None of this is to say that men do not suffer DV and should be supported when they do.[/quote]
Exactly what I think.

Coronawireless · 18/10/2021 10:47

@KurtWilde

What I'm reading here is:

Man pushes woman's buttons.
Woman pushes man physically.
Response of the majority: Oh well yeah you shouldn't have done it but he goaded you into it, why are we focusing on you physically pushing your husband when it's clearly him in the wrong, he's the abusive one for goading you? And he's bigger than you so he shouldn't have even batted an eyelid or made you feel bad.

Now imagine it was:
Woman pushes man's buttons.
Man pushes woman physically.
Response if the majority: He's showing you who he really is, this is just the start of it, he'll escalate it from here, are you safe? LTB

And those of you who've been on MN long enough KNOW this is the response a woman who's been pushed by her partner would get, so please don't say the double standards on this board don't exist because you know they do.

You do know that most men are a lot stronger than most women, right?

Hadjab · 18/10/2021 10:47

@Bogeyes

I've been a victim of what is called jokey banter. It's not banter at all. It's bullying and very damaging. He can dish it out but cannot take it. He's an arse

What exactly is it though that OP’s DH can dish out but can’t take? Did OP respond to the snide, critical remarks with her own snide, critical remarks, which would have been an equal and appropriate level of response? Or did she resort to the use of force, a disproportionate response, as force was not used against her in the first instance?

Ledition · 18/10/2021 10:53

And those of you who've been on MN long enough KNOW this is the response a woman who's been pushed by her partner would get, so please don't say the double standards on this board don't exist because you know they do.

Yes because they'd fear for her life. As we know due to the prevalence of men murdering their partners the threat of escalation and to a woman's life in such circumstances is very real. There's no equivalence the other way around. Women don't have these same violent patterns and very, very few women can match their male partners in size and strength. OPs husband is not in any immediate danger as you well know so bleating on about "double standards" is tiresome drivel.

Haveyoubrushedyourteethtoday · 18/10/2021 11:31

If a man came in here and said his wife had pushed him, there would be no posters piling on to ask ‘are you safe?’ ‘Are your kids safe?’ ‘Can you go somewhere safe?’

Double standard? Sure. There’s a reason for that. Cop on to yourselves.

Redredwiney · 18/10/2021 12:01

@Haveyoubrushedyourteethtoday

If a man came in here and said his wife had pushed him, there would be no posters piling on to ask ‘are you safe?’ ‘Are your kids safe?’ ‘Can you go somewhere safe?’

Double standard? Sure. There’s a reason for that. Cop on to yourselves.

But that is different to this scenario but reversed. Husband has been goaded and belittled regularly by wife. He reaches breaking point and reacts physically. Didn’t intend to hurt her and probably doesn’t intend to do so again. Caught up with anger in the moment and feels ashamed.

Are you saying that because wife and children are safe and it was a one off that he was goaded into, it’s ok?

Namechangedforthethousandthtim · 18/10/2021 12:05

It all sounds very dramatic and a bit unnecessarily so to be honest. Making snarkey comments is annoying but I'd just call him out on them and move on with the day. Pushing someone so gently one time, so gently that they don't even stumble or get hurt, is not really that bad either IMO. It was one time! I think you're almost TOO sorry and making it into a bigger deal than it is, and sounds like your DH is milking it for all it's worth, probably to regain the moral highground after the snide comments. Your kids sound very sensitive. It's not good of your husband to be playinf the victim in front of them, he's probably worrying them for no reason!

Coronawireless · 18/10/2021 12:08

It would never be ok for a man to hit a woman, no.
It’s not good for any adult to hit another, but it’s far worse for a man to hit a woman.
Stop pretending you don’t know the difference!

Namechangedforthethousandthtim · 18/10/2021 12:12

If my husband and kids were behaving like yours, I'd be marching downstairs telling them they're all being ridiculous and they need to get a grip to be honest. Also, please don't apologize to your friends over some jokey comments you didn't like. You'd look soooo melodramatic and just ... Odd? They probably didn't even notice or care. People make jokes. It's fine.

BatshitCrazyWoman · 18/10/2021 12:21

@CheekyHobson

Well, you seem to be well aware that what you did was wrong. You've had the appropriate reaction to doing something wrong - you feel ashamed. You apologised straight away. You've sought advice from others. This is all an appropriate set of responses to behaving in an unhealthy way.

However I see a lot to be concerned about in terms of the health of your husband's behaviour.

other similar comments he’d made over the last few days.
So your husband makes snide/critical/passive-aggressive comments towards you on a regular basis? Are you aware that this is a form of verbal abuse? If he has a problem with something you're doing, the healthy thing to do is to raise it in a direct way that describes what the issue is for him and asks for your help in resolving it.

He says they were jokes
So instead of apologising when you said you didn't like the way he was speaking to you, he twists a critical comment into a 'joke', even though you (and probably nobody except him) found it funny? Are you aware this is a form of emotional abuse?

dh just said I treat him much worse than he treats me, without giving examples
So he positions himself as a victim, but won't say what the actual problem is or how you are actually causing him real harm? Are you aware this is also a form of emotional abuse?

I’d had to tell ds off for his tone/attitude a couple of times today so was tense.
So your son is speaking to you disrespectfully... where do you think he learned this was okay? Could it be from his father's example?

The kids are now upset (15 and 16). I’ve tried to explain what happened and have apologised but they don’t want to forgive me and are angry.
Could they be upset because they feel uncomfortable seeing you react to your husband's provocations, and feel scared that he will become angry and lash out harder at you or them if you keep doing this? Is it easier for them to feel secure in the family home when Mum keeps her head down and doesn't rock the boat when Dad bullies her?

Dh says he doesn’t want to talk about it yet, he has to think about what I’ve done.
Perhaps he should also think about what he's done. This isn't a situation that is one-sided. There are two sides, equally valid, and if he wants to treat yours as not valid at all, that's something to pay close attention to.

I know it was inexcusable.
Why is what you did inexcusable whereas what your husband did completely excusable?

He’s now downstairs doing housework and being all ‘perfect dad’ with the kids.
Are you aware that behaving kindly and generously to make people take their side is a control strategy used by abusers, just like being critical and demeaning and acting like they're always being misunderstood and wronged makes people afraid to stand up for themselves against them?

All of this.

KurtWilde · 18/10/2021 12:22

It’s not good for any adult to hit another, but it’s far worse for a man to hit a woman.

And this kind of attitude right here is why more men don't come forward to report their experiences. The statistics of DV would look far different if they did.

Try telling my male family member - who was subjected to being pushed, shoved. slapped and more by his girlfriend - that it wasn't as bad for him as it would be for a woman.

Jesus wept, I'm off this thread, some of the shit you people spew is repugnant.

Tranquilitybasehotelandcasino · 18/10/2021 12:25

It sounds like spending time with these ‘friends’ has put everyone on edge. You want them to think well if you all so you’re probably being more picky about behaviour than usual, your DH possibly thought your friends would appreciate the jokes at your expense if he is aware that he’s also got to impress them. Your DC has already heard what this friend really thinks of them and probably isn’t looking forward to being around them. So, why are they still in your life? Why are you all having to be put under stress to pander to them? And if you saw then for the last few days, why were you also spending tonight with them? This is the last thing most people would want to do with friends like this.

Not excusing any of the behaviour from you or DH but it seems like these friends have yet again lit the touch paper and walked away from the fire. These aren’t really friends and you shouldn’t give a fuck what they think. If you have to put an act on around them, your friendship isn’t real.

Do you and your family generally get on well when you’re alone and not putting on this ridiculous act?

anon12345678901 · 18/10/2021 12:28

@Coronawireless

It would never be ok for a man to hit a woman, no. It’s not good for any adult to hit another, but it’s far worse for a man to hit a woman. Stop pretending you don’t know the difference!

It's never okay for a woman to hit a man. There is absolutely no difference when it comes to violence against another person. There's a difference in the damage that can be done as men are usually stronger, however there is no justification for either sex to be violent. Attitudes like that are the reason male victims do not come forward and do women no favours either.

Coronawireless · 18/10/2021 12:30

@KurtWilde

It’s not good for any adult to hit another, but it’s far worse for a man to hit a woman.

And this kind of attitude right here is why more men don't come forward to report their experiences. The statistics of DV would look far different if they did.

Try telling my male family member - who was subjected to being pushed, shoved. slapped and more by his girlfriend - that it wasn't as bad for him as it would be for a woman.

Jesus wept, I'm off this thread, some of the shit you people spew is repugnant.

No one said it was ok for anyone to hit anyone. But if you genuinely can’t understand why male on female violence is worse again, then off you go. So long!

Original poster

whitehorsesdonotlie · 18/10/2021 12:30

Thanks, all. There's a lot of good advice on here, and I'm taking it all on board.

We have had a good talk - a really honest talk, I think, and we both listened to each other. I know I'm not perfect, and I think there are things we can both do now to make things better, like talk more and improve how we communicate.

OP posts:

Haveyoubrushedyourteethtoday · 18/10/2021 12:31

No redwiney. If I thought that because the wife and children were safe and it was a one off that he was goaded into then that would be ok, I would have said exactly that. I didn’t say what the Op did was ok either.

Posters are faux indignant and confused at the ‘double standards’ and I’m not buying it. Surely so many women can’t be that clueless.