What do I do now? Ashamed

[whitehorsesdonotlie]

I pushed dh today. He’d made a sarcastic remark about me, like ‘Oh, Mum always knows best, doesn’t she?’, and I just saw red. This was after other similar comments he’d made over the last few days. He says they were jokes but I hate PA remarks, hate snide comments, hate being laughed at.

I apologised straight away and tried to explain why I had reacted like that, but dh just said that it had been a joke and I treat him much worse than he treats me, without giving examples.

We were with friends at the time, which made it all much worse. I feel terrible for losing my temper and causing an atmosphere.

I’d had to tell ds off for his tone/attitude a couple of times today so was tense.

The kids are now upset (15 and 16). I’ve tried to explain what happened and have apologised but they don’t want to forgive me and are angry. I don’t know what to do. Dh says he doesn’t want to talk about it yet, he has to think about what I’ve done. Fair enough. I know it was inexcusable. He’s now downstairs doing housework and being all ‘perfect dad’ with the kids.

We’ve been together 20 years, no violence, though we did argue a few times during lockdown, and the kids hate it when we argue. I don’t know what to do or where to go from here.

I just thing this is a bit of a none event and doesn't mean LTB or you are a terrible parent!

DH was being a dick, you lost your temper and have apologised. Adults make mistakes too and lose their shit sometimes.

Your DH and kids need to get over themselves.

Please don’t quote me out of context. I also said that the intent was there. OP is not going to be able to push her husband the same as he could push her because she is the weaker partner. That’s a fact.

It's not a fact at all. How do you know she's the weaker partner? Being a woman doesn't automatically make her weaker! That stereotype is so far outdated as to be laughable these days. I know many women who are most definitely physically bigger/at least as strong as their husbands, because not all men are built like they go to the gym every week and not all women are slightly built shrinking violets!

Exactly, read it like it was the other way round. My dh pushed me, everyone would be telling you to leave him! It doesn't matter what he was saying tbh, you can't control yourself. Get help.

@KurtWilde completely agree! I'm naturally muscular and strong and could easily push over a man if I wanted to.

What did your "friend" say about dd? Why is she in your house?

He sounds like an idiot, and you dont sound violent or abusive at all. If he kept pushing your buttons what did he expect? Are you physically smaller than him too? Was he scared of you? He doesnt sound very nice at all. I am sorry youre going through a hard time and youre not a monster like some PPs would have you believe.

Not condoning you pushing him but he also needs to take responsibility for his actions too. He probably knows how to push your buttons and how much it winds you up. It was wrong to do this in front of friends. The best way forward is obviously to talk and take responsibility. You should also discuss how you're going to present a united front to the kids - seems to me you're being painted as the only baddie here. Hope you manage to resolve it @whitehorsesdonotlie

If he kept pushing your buttons what did he expect?

Do you say that to men who have hit their partners?

You are spending a lot of energy trying to create a positive image of you, you DH and your marriage to your friends - why? Because the real thing is bad?

@whitehorsesdonotlie

To answer some questions...

Yes, the friends have been staying for a few days, and the snide remarks have been in front of them. H does it less when it's just us, and I don't mind it so much then.

I have been a bit on edge - a few years back, my friend said something negative about my dd, not realising that my dd was in earshot, and things were sticky between us for a while after that. And I'm more conscious of wanting the dc to 'be good' so that my friend thinks well of them.

We were supposed to be seeing the same friends tonight. I have messaged them and made an excuse. I just don't want to go with such an awful atmosphere.

Good idea to spologise to friends. I have done.

I'm not a violent person, and have never been violent in my life. Don't think it's likely to happen again.

You know there's no excuse for what you did. Bringing up issues about snide comments etc is deflecting from what happened - there's never an excuse for physical violence.

I know that. I said that above, I was thinking about things, trying to work out why it happened and why I was so angry.

Could it be because of possible menopause do you think?

I also HATE sarcasm.

It's passive-aggressive behaviour.

The double standards argument is so tedious. Women do not pose even close to the same level of threat to men as vice versa. The "double standards" are borne out of reality. How many women murder their husbands every week in the UK? Yeah none that's how many.

Yes men can suffer domestic abuse but that's not what's been described here. A push to a man's shoulder is not abuse. It's not good and it shouldn't happen but unless OP is a huge woman who dwarfs her husband in size and strength (which considering he didn't move is highly unlikely) there was no threat to him.

I could punch my husband square in the jaw and he still would feel no threat as he knows he can kill me with his bare hands if he was so inclined. There's a power imbalance borne of of biology.

And considering OP is tying herself up in knots when her husband was behaving like a complete dick makes it obvious where the real power lies in this relationship.

Well, you seem to be well aware that what you did was wrong. You've had the appropriate reaction to doing something wrong - you feel ashamed. You apologised straight away. You've sought advice from others. This is all an appropriate set of responses to behaving in an unhealthy way.

However I see a lot to be concerned about in terms of the health of your husband's behaviour.

other similar comments he’d made over the last few days.
So your husband makes snide/critical/passive-aggressive comments towards you on a regular basis? Are you aware that this is a form of verbal abuse? If he has a problem with something you're doing, the healthy thing to do is to raise it in a direct way that describes what the issue is for him and asks for your help in resolving it.

He says they were jokes
So instead of apologising when you said you didn't like the way he was speaking to you, he twists a critical comment into a 'joke', even though you (and probably nobody except him) found it funny? Are you aware this is a form of emotional abuse?

dh just said I treat him much worse than he treats me, without giving examples
So he positions himself as a victim, but won't say what the actual problem is or how you are actually causing him real harm? Are you aware this is also a form of emotional abuse?

I’d had to tell ds off for his tone/attitude a couple of times today so was tense.
So your son is speaking to you disrespectfully... where do you think he learned this was okay? Could it be from his father's example?

The kids are now upset (15 and 16). I’ve tried to explain what happened and have apologised but they don’t want to forgive me and are angry.
Could they be upset because they feel uncomfortable seeing you react to your husband's provocations, and feel scared that he will become angry and lash out harder at you or them if you keep doing this? Is it easier for them to feel secure in the family home when Mum keeps her head down and doesn't rock the boat when Dad bullies her?

Dh says he doesn’t want to talk about it yet, he has to think about what I’ve done.
Perhaps he should also think about what he's done. This isn't a situation that is one-sided. There are two sides, equally valid, and if he wants to treat yours as not valid at all, that's something to pay close attention to.

I know it was inexcusable.
Why is what you did inexcusable whereas what your husband did completely excusable?

He’s now downstairs doing housework and being all ‘perfect dad’ with the kids.
Are you aware that behaving kindly and generously to make people take their side is a control strategy used by abusers, just like being critical and demeaning and acting like they're always being misunderstood and wronged makes people afraid to stand up for themselves against them?

This doesn't sound that big of an issue, to be making such a big deal about it all. You seem to be in need,of keeping calmer about some things, for the benefit of everyone around.

I've been a victim of what is called jokey banter. It's not banter at all. It's bullying and very damaging. He can dish it out but cannot take it. He's an arse

@CheekyHobson

Well, you seem to be well aware that what you did was wrong. You've had the appropriate reaction to doing something wrong - you feel ashamed. You apologised straight away. You've sought advice from others. This is all an appropriate set of responses to behaving in an unhealthy way.

However I see a lot to be concerned about in terms of the health of your husband's behaviour.

other similar comments he’d made over the last few days.
So your husband makes snide/critical/passive-aggressive comments towards you on a regular basis? Are you aware that this is a form of verbal abuse? If he has a problem with something you're doing, the healthy thing to do is to raise it in a direct way that describes what the issue is for him and asks for your help in resolving it.

He says they were jokes
So instead of apologising when you said you didn't like the way he was speaking to you, he twists a critical comment into a 'joke', even though you (and probably nobody except him) found it funny? Are you aware this is a form of emotional abuse?

dh just said I treat him much worse than he treats me, without giving examples
So he positions himself as a victim, but won't say what the actual problem is or how you are actually causing him real harm? Are you aware this is also a form of emotional abuse?

I’d had to tell ds off for his tone/attitude a couple of times today so was tense.
So your son is speaking to you disrespectfully... where do you think he learned this was okay? Could it be from his father's example?

The kids are now upset (15 and 16). I’ve tried to explain what happened and have apologised but they don’t want to forgive me and are angry.
Could they be upset because they feel uncomfortable seeing you react to your husband's provocations, and feel scared that he will become angry and lash out harder at you or them if you keep doing this? Is it easier for them to feel secure in the family home when Mum keeps her head down and doesn't rock the boat when Dad bullies her?

Dh says he doesn’t want to talk about it yet, he has to think about what I’ve done.
Perhaps he should also think about what he's done. This isn't a situation that is one-sided. There are two sides, equally valid, and if he wants to treat yours as not valid at all, that's something to pay close attention to.

I know it was inexcusable.
Why is what you did inexcusable whereas what your husband did completely excusable?

He’s now downstairs doing housework and being all ‘perfect dad’ with the kids.
Are you aware that behaving kindly and generously to make people take their side is a control strategy used by abusers, just like being critical and demeaning and acting like they're always being misunderstood and wronged makes people afraid to stand up for themselves against them?

Good post.

Did your husband wanted your friends to stay over especially given the history with DD? Is your DD over it?

You want your DC and husband to be on their best behaviour so your friend won't judge them /you , which you yourself admit has put you on edge. That's not healthy either.

@BringOnTheOtherWorlders - You are spending a lot of energy trying to create a positive image of you, you DH and your marriage to your friends - why? Because the real thing is bad?

Yes, maybe. Need to think about that. I care about what others think. H, not so much.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose - Did your husband wanted your friends to stay over especially given the history with DD? Is your DD over it?

They're not staying with us but close to us, so we all have our own space.

@CheekyHobson - thank you. Lots to think about there.

To clarify: I walked angrily towards him and pushed him in the stomach. He was wearing a coat and hoodie. I'm 5 foot 2, he's 6 foot.

H wants to talk this morning, so we started, but he said that he's thought about it and he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for and he didn't do anything wrong yesterday, so I'm not sure where we go from here.

H wants to talk this morning, so we started, but he said that he's thought about it and he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for and he didn't do anything wrong yesterday, so I'm not sure where we go from here.

It's not much of a 'talk' if the talk involves him unilaterally deciding he's right and you're wrong and he has nothing to apologise for, is it? That's more of a speech, directed at you.

A talk typically involves two people expressing their perspective, considering the other person's and trying to come to an agreement that accommodates both perspectives.

However, even if he's set on believing in this particular instance he's right and you're wrong, in a broader sense, since he's your husband and as such presumably cares about your feelings, can he accept that you find sarcastic or snide remarks at your expense unpleasant and agree to stop doing speaking to you in a way you don't like?

If he doesn't want to agree to stop speaking to you in a way that you find unpleasant to the degree that you end up lashing out at him, this might be something to really sit with, and ask yourself what that says about how much he values your happiness. In fact how well you feel respected and heard in your relationship.

Sometimes we spend so long feeling fundamentally unsatisfied in a relationship that we come to believe a kind of lack of outright misery is all we can or should expect, and lose sight of the fact that relationships are meant to add to our life, not detract from it.

I also hate the extreme “double standard” thing. What’s sauce for the gander etc.
This means that if a woman asks for any rights, such as protection from physical abuse, or the right to earn money, she is aggressively told if she wants to be a man then she can be treated like a man. Her pushing a 6ft man will be just as big a crime as if he beat her up causing serious injury.
Bullshit!
Of course she shouldn’t have hit him at all as she’s supposed to be a mature adult. But it sounds as if there is much more to the story. Is he being a dick and undermining her constantly? Why is she so afraid of what her friends think? Why are the children so angry with her?
More going on here than worrying that she has physically injured her 6ft husband.

Maybe he deliberately provoked you. He has made you the absolute bad one here.... Sounds premeditated... Has he plans to split up and wants the blame solely on you?

[quote whitehorsesdonotlie]**@BringOnTheOtherWorlders* - You are spending a lot of energy trying to create a positive image of you, you DH and your marriage to your friends - why? Because the real thing is bad?*

Yes, maybe. Need to think about that. I care about what others think. H, not so much.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose - Did your husband wanted your friends to stay over especially given the history with DD? Is your DD over it?

They're not staying with us but close to us, so we all have our own space.

@CheekyHobson - thank you. Lots to think about there.

To clarify: I walked angrily towards him and pushed him in the stomach. He was wearing a coat and hoodie. I'm 5 foot 2, he's 6 foot.

H wants to talk this morning, so we started, but he said that he's thought about it and he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for and he didn't do anything wrong yesterday, so I'm not sure where we go from here.[/quote]
So he decided when you could talk -ie when he's ready but not before. Talking is two ways. But he has thought about it (implying he's intelligent and has thought about both sides) and decided -you are 100% wrong and he's 100% right.

Can't you see how wrong and awful this is..............it's called DARVO look it up.

So he's making decisions for your marriage -he's perfect. You're not.
He can goad you, mimic you, knock you down in front of friends and others -that's all banter is it? and a joke?

my father used to bully me like that then tell me (when I cried) how difficult and sensitive I was. That I was far 'too emotional' -and then off course he could flounce off and say I had upset him by telling him that he'd hurt me. My head used to spin.
He abuses, I cry, then it becomes my fault. etc

I agree with cheeky. There’s history with the friend and you were on guard- recipe for disaster when your own buttons are pushed. What is the general resentment between you and your DH? Is it this passive aggression? Or something else. What do you resent him for and what does he resent you for. To me- that’s the real work in a marriage. Most of the time if the good stuff ioverrules the resentments it’s ok. But when they build and there’s insufficient good stuff- it’s a slog

I feel quite frustrated for you.
It sounds like being around these friends is stressful as you have to put on a front and feel your parenting is under scrutiny.
It sounds like your husband orchestrated you coming out as the bad guy. So he gets to put you down in front of others and expects you to absorb it without any repercussions.

Okay , pushing him is not great but it sounds more like a barging into him rather than a considered act of violence.

As for the talk, I'd go back to him and say that he can decide what he likes about the push but he doesn't get to rewrite the narrative of his part leading up to it.

Make it very clear, that you do not find his PA remarks acceptable and he has shown complete disregard for your request that he stops these.

As for your children , apologise to them that they have been subject to your annoyance of your husband and make it clear to them that you have apologised but they do not get to treat you with contempt just in the same way your husband does .

It's time to be very clear about what your boundaries are.

I'm sorry but your friends sound so judgemental and add to the situation ... I wouldn't be surprised if they're your husbands friends so orchestrate their visits to put you on edge .

What other comments does he say to you and how often does he do it?
Is it daily, weekly?