If men are not getting enough sex at home ...

[Squaddielife]

They will get it elsewhere!?

Overheard a group of men debating his topic of conversation today and I was shocked at how entitled they all sounded. Very matter of fact. Some mention of hook up sites to fulfill needs when not being met at home!

Is this the general consensus? Is there some ground to this that basically if we're not satisfying the sex drive of our men then don't be surprised if they play away? Or is it part of the script that men use when found out to be cheating?

The number of seemingly 'good' boyfriends/husbands i know who go elsewhere for sex is disgraceful and I could never 100% trust a partner not to cheat because of it. Several of them have tried it on with me, others are close friends who have confided in me.

Those who have tried it on with me, in every case their partner is objectively a lot better looking than me too. I'm quite plain and frumpy whereas their girlfriends are often model-like.

@IWillFindYou sorry, I may have misinterpreted your post, it's all pretty raw.

I'm doing my very best, but I have been beaten down over a long time with someone I've loved who has constantly rejected me. I haven't cheated, but it really is awful to be rejected by someone you love.

@Auroreforet

I was having a conversation with female colleagues and the subject for some reason was sex and how often. Two women both in their 50’s, and only a few years older than me, stated that they couldn’t be bothered with that anymore. Very definitely felt it was in their past. I was shocked. Not because they didn’t want sex but because their decision was so unilateral. Their dh’s wishes didn’t come into it.

Surely a partners decision to no longer have a sex life with their dp without any discussion is also entitled.

When it comes to your body it is a unilateral decision no one else gets a say in your personal sex life because no means no

Always

Today 02:59altmember

No one (men or women) has an affair because their domestic relationship is healthy. If a man (or woman) is getting enough sex at home they won't have the appetite to play away. Not endorsing it, just pointing out the cold hard reality.

@altmember you are deluded! And the subtle victim blaming is disgusting!

If a relationship is irreconcilably unsatisfying to either party in some way (and they have any self respect), they'll probably leave. If there is some impediment to leaving (like kids, dependency or losing half of your wealth in divorce) they will stay and meet their needs in some other way.
A lack of sex in a relationship is pretty easily solved by substitution vs. something like financial dependency.

"No one (men or women) has an affair because their domestic relationship is healthy. If a man (or woman) is getting enough sex at home they won't have the appetite to play away. Not endorsing it, just pointing out the cold hard reality"

Surely what you mean is "No one (men or women) has an affair if they have a healthy sense of themself"

The reasons and motivation for an affair come from within the person having the affair not "because of the (un)healthy relationship".
As soon as your logic about a relationship becomes transactional ("You didn't do x y z so I had to have an affair") I would say that transactional view in itself is the unhealthy element not the apparent shortcomings of the partner in the relationship.

Does your DH know though?

youvegottenminuteslynn He knows I'm unhappy about the way things have ended up in the bedroom, because we've talked about it more than once. We've tried different approaches over the years, which have come to nothing. He doesn't know about my online relationship, which is why I said "I'm not cheating IRL yet". I know I'm cheating otherwise, and I'm not ruling out more with my online AP. But we hit an impasse: neither of us want to split, DH didn't want to open up the marriage. So my options are leave, which neither of us want; spend the rest of our/his/my life without any sex or intimacy, which I've tried for years and is making me increasingly unhappy; or cheat. I'm not proud of myself, I'm not attempting to justify this as a good or moral act, I know I'm being selfish and risking hurting someone I love. I am trying, and will continue to try, to minimise any effect my affair has on my marriage. I know the honourable thing would be to split, but life isn't always black and white - I'm not going to go into more details about the things keeping us together, partly because it's my business but partly because I don't want to come across as though I'm 'special pleading'. And I could only consider cheating with someone in a similar position who understands what it's like to still love your spouse but mourn the loss of intimacy and sex, where we're both in otherwise happy marriages and not looking to break up either of our homes. I'm not looking for an exit affair but nor am I looking for a meaningless shag. (In fact I wasn't actively 'looking' at all; we didn't meet on a hookup site but in an online group about a shared hobby.)

I don't believe that affairs or playing away come out of not enough sex. In my experience it is that men aren't getting the attention they think they deserve. This is why many men play away after children, they are no longer the focus of their partners attention and they think therefore they are entitled to look elsewhere.

Many many women do not get the emotional support they need and whilst I know manty women also have affairs you don't see them going off at every opportunity to find some of the love and attention they need.

@TempTempThrowaway

Does your DH know though?

youvegottenminuteslynn He knows I'm unhappy about the way things have ended up in the bedroom, because we've talked about it more than once. We've tried different approaches over the years, which have come to nothing. He doesn't know about my online relationship, which is why I said "I'm not cheating IRL yet". I know I'm cheating otherwise, and I'm not ruling out more with my online AP. But we hit an impasse: neither of us want to split, DH didn't want to open up the marriage. So my options are leave, which neither of us want; spend the rest of our/his/my life without any sex or intimacy, which I've tried for years and is making me increasingly unhappy; or cheat. I'm not proud of myself, I'm not attempting to justify this as a good or moral act, I know I'm being selfish and risking hurting someone I love. I am trying, and will continue to try, to minimise any effect my affair has on my marriage. I know the honourable thing would be to split, but life isn't always black and white - I'm not going to go into more details about the things keeping us together, partly because it's my business but partly because I don't want to come across as though I'm 'special pleading'. And I could only consider cheating with someone in a similar position who understands what it's like to still love your spouse but mourn the loss of intimacy and sex, where we're both in otherwise happy marriages and not looking to break up either of our homes. I'm not looking for an exit affair but nor am I looking for a meaningless shag. (In fact I wasn't actively 'looking' at all; we didn't meet on a hookup site but in an online group about a shared hobby.)

So my options are leave, which neither of us want; spend the rest of our/his/my life without any sex or intimacy, which I've tried for years and is making me increasingly unhappy; or cheat.

Or tell your husband you love him but can't live without sex, so you need an open relationship or to break up.

It's completely unfair to remove his agency in this situation by making out that you don't have the option to be honest with him. It suggests to me that you know he would say no to an open relationship. Which means you can't have a healthy relationship with him anymore, because you'd be lying and cheating on him.

Imagine if he found out, how that would make him feel.

At least give him the option to know the truth.

Mine did - of course the reason for the lack of sex (which I might add we were both experiencing) is that he wasn't lifting a finger to help with anything around the house, whilst I struggled to hold down my full time job he was swanning off on work trips, and even when he was home he couldn't be bothered to even get up 30 mins early so we could drop the kids off at school together and get a coffee (or anything, anything at all to spend time together).

Of course that's not how he describes it. In his head I was a happy home maker (and my little job was just preventing me looking after him properly) and he was under lots of stress at work (no more than me!), and wouldn't stay up late to spend time with him (because unlike him, I got up at 6 to get the kids to school), and I was unreasonable to not find him painfully squeezing my arse when he woke me up coming to bed past midnight enough of a turn on to immediately leap onto his penis.

[quote beingsunny]@IWillFindYou sorry, I may have misinterpreted your post, it's all pretty raw.

I'm doing my very best, but I have been beaten down over a long time with someone I've loved who has constantly rejected me. I haven't cheated, but it really is awful to be rejected by someone you love.[/quote]
I had to go back and re-read, because this got confusing.
I thought you were someone else, I don’t know why you tagged me personally.

@Kotatsu

Mine did - of course the reason for the lack of sex (which I might add we were both experiencing) is that he wasn't lifting a finger to help with anything around the house, whilst I struggled to hold down my full time job he was swanning off on work trips, and even when he was home he couldn't be bothered to even get up 30 mins early so we could drop the kids off at school together and get a coffee (or anything, anything at all to spend time together).

Of course that's not how he describes it. In his head I was a happy home maker (and my little job was just preventing me looking after him properly) and he was under lots of stress at work (no more than me!), and wouldn't stay up late to spend time with him (because unlike him, I got up at 6 to get the kids to school), and I was unreasonable to not find him painfully squeezing my arse when he woke me up coming to bed past midnight enough of a turn on to immediately leap onto his penis.

This sounds awful, I'm so sorry.

[quote SW1amp]@beingsunny

That’s your issue with measuring your self worth and attractive-ness based on how often another person wants to have sex with you

It’s a common trope on MN “it’s soul destroying when your DH rejects you for sex”
Well no, not if you have proper self respect and don’t use sex as a yardstick for your value in life

You need to work on yourself, and also see that a relationship is more than just a vehicle for 2 people to express their attraction for each other via sex[/quote]
Excellent post.

My ex was shagging around behind my back because l didn't put out very often but that was because l didn't fancy him so prob should have split up before it got to that point.

@Kotatsu. I'm sorry to hear about your experience . The inequalities in male-female labour, especially post-children, aren't mentioned sufficiently here.

If a couple are just starting out or are past the stage of having dependent children, then there is a lot of sense in the argument that they should go their separate ways if they are sexually incompatible.

For men with young children who still have the energy to play away from home, surely a first solution would be to do a greater share of the housework, nursery runs, night wakings and weekend childcare. Then they might find they have less energy/inclination for sex and their wife has more, and hopefully they can both meet somewhere in the middle. There is something very attractive about someone who cooks you dinner and puts the kids to bed without complaining.

@FlipFlops4Me

I think a lot of you know some very selfish men. I was ill for many months when we were in our early 40's - cancer, surgery and chemo. I couldn't have got involved in sex - I'd have been vomiting (or sleeping) my way through it! My husband didn't play away; he nursed me lovingly and carefully all the way through the whole thing. We slept snuggled up so that if I needed him in the night he could help straightaway (I couldn't sit up, turn over or get out of bed without help).

Now it's my turn - he could no more manage sex than he could fly - he is very disabled. I don't mind not having sex. I love him, not just his dick and his ability to fuck me.

My heart goes out to both of you. Great post.

@Goldbar I agree.

I dated a couples therapist and he said in 90% of couples he saw where lack of sex was the issue, the reason behind if was the woman being exhausted.

So he found himself telling men to step up the housework and childcare very frequently!

(The other 10% was illness, including mental illness, grief, erectile dysfunction, kinks, and affairs)

Unfortunately I think men often leave women with the mental and emotional load of everything. That and a lot of the time the house work and children. I know I often felt I should have been the paid house keeper. Connection is ruined, don’t want intimacy anymore so often they play away instead of putting in the work and doing their share but they believe it’s “women’s work”. I had so many arguments with mine before finally walking away. I wouldn’t have cheated on him though. He told me I should have been grateful he never did!!! He simply didn’t get it that I felt s**t.

I don’t know if it’s true but I would assume men have more affairs then women as we need more of an emotional connection and they just see it as something they just get.

For men with young children who still have the energy to play away from home, surely a first solution would be to do a greater share of the housework, nursery runs, night wakings and weekend childcare. Then they might find they have less energy/inclination for sex and their wife has more, and hopefully they can both meet somewhere in the middle. There is something very attractive about someone who cooks you dinner and puts the kids to bed without complaining.

Yes, exactly. It's very hard to fancy someone who doesn't roll out of bed until you're heading back in the door after school drop off, and who would prefer to put the time into chasing other women, than take an hour to have a coffee with you. At that point, you start to feel like the nanny/maid/personal assistant rather than a partner, and it all just evaporates. Of course the woman, left with the kids, still isn't getting any because when does she have time to now she's a single mother - so there's another source of frustration and stress.

@Animood. That's very interesting but unsurprising to me.

Small children make constant physical and emotional demands on their carers. They not only require constant interaction but they also touch you constantly. If many men whose wives are doing most of the caring for young children could just get their heads around the idea that she's unlikely to be up for it unless she gets a break from the constant touching and demanding attention beforehand, they'd probably have much better sex lives. While "take the kids to the park if you want weekend sex" sounds quite transactional, men who are out all week and then don't step up at weekends really only have themselves to blame if their wives don't make their sex life a priority. Why would you prioritise someone who constantly puts you last when you're already giving from an empty cup?

Many many women do not get the emotional support they need and whilst I know manty women also have affairs you don't see them going off at every opportunity to find some of the love and attention they need.

This is because, in the main, men are conditioned to put themselves first and women are conditioned to put themselves last. Men are much more prepared to take what they think they need at the expense of their partner and women mostly put up with it until it becomes unbearable.

My parents had a much more equal marriage than many of their generation as my mother was the higher earner, but still she used to be absolutely dumbfounded by my father packing his bag for a trip to the swimming-pool or a holiday and then sitting on the sofa with a cup of tea bemoaning her taking so long while she ran around trying to get three small children ready as well as herself.

It suggests to me that you know he would say no to an open relationship.

Well yes, I know he doesn't - I already said that in my post: "But we hit an impasse: neither of us want to split, DH didn't want to open up the marriage."

We've discussed it, he said no. Hence leaving me with the options I listed.

Whether I agree with this or not I think it's true. Not on a short term basis eg illness etc but where there's a serious mismatch between libidos both sexes do play away. Of course talking about it and any decisions being consensual would be ideal but I think for many men they want their cake and eat it

[quote Goldbar]@Animood. That's very interesting but unsurprising to me.

Small children make constant physical and emotional demands on their carers. They not only require constant interaction but they also touch you constantly. If many men whose wives are doing most of the caring for young children could just get their heads around the idea that she's unlikely to be up for it unless she gets a break from the constant touching and demanding attention beforehand, they'd probably have much better sex lives. While "take the kids to the park if you want weekend sex" sounds quite transactional, men who are out all week and then don't step up at weekends really only have themselves to blame if their wives don't make their sex life a priority. Why would you prioritise someone who constantly puts you last when you're already giving from an empty cup?[/quote]
I hadn't thought about all the touching- this is also so true!

So our message to men if they want sex is (a) do the dishes without being asked and (b) take the kids out for a few hours 😂

I wonder how many problems would be solved if they did this!!!

@altmember Not true I’m afraid, me and my ex-bf were having sex a lot, yet he still cheated on me, more than once, in my opinion it was entitlement.