Resent that mum never worked/had a job - causing rifts between us

[Waferbiscuit]

My mother married right out of University and since then has been a SAHM/SAHW. She only ever held one job, over the summer, when she was 20 and and has never had a job since.

She has lived a very comfortable life - children at a young age, divorced but remarried quickly so no change in her financial circumstances, moderately successful husband and kids at home until they left when she was 48. Since then she has spent the last 40+ years travelling, pottering and quite frankly stretching out daily chores into the day. She is part of a weird generation of mc women who expected to be cared for and probably never expected to work.

By contrast I have worked FT since leaving University, now a single parent, still working and juggling everything.

The fact that mum has never worked means she's lived in a real bubble, and has very skewed views about public life and the world of work. This causes huge rifts between us and really affects our relationship.

• She has very little concept of what work is like and the pressures of modern work so when I explain that I am stressed she thinks that it's my fault and I need to manage it.
• She doesn't understand that people need to do work outside of 9-5
• She has no real sense of what it's like to have someone instructing you/telling you what to do; she has literally been 'self guided' her entire life
• She thinks it's easy to get a job and promotion so doesn't understand why they aren't forthcoming for me or my siblings.
• She is deeply unproductive so thinks juggling means trying to do the dishes and laundry in the same morning and considers that 'busy-ness' to be on par with mine
• She is very naive about money and assumes everyone is on a relatively good wage. She doesn't understand why I can't go part-time.
• She dresses in organic frocks and proudly doesn't wear makeup or do her hair but her 'hippyness' is a privilege - she doesn't clock that other people actually have to look and dress professionally for work.
• She doesn't help me in any way - financially or with DCs - because she's always too busy doing nothing at all, but she's 'very busy'.

I know I should be grateful that she's not working in a factory to scrape by, but her naiviety means there's an entire aspects of my life she doesn't understand and over the years it's caused real tensions. I partly resent that she doesn't get it and partly resent that she's had such an easy ride that she takes for granted or really considers her due.

Posting just to see if anyone else has the same problem and how they made peace with it.

I think the generation gap is too wide to fully understand the generation above or below. People forget how much things have changed, even in just 10 years. And if they no longer work or have a wide and mixed circle of people they come across daily then yes, undoubtedly there will be a bit of a bubble.

My dad had a privileged upbringing, then got a job with a company he stayed with all his life and ended up near the top, with luxury company car (and all fuel paid for, even when we used it on family holidays abroad ), bonuses, final salary non-contributory pension. I mean, fucking gold-plated pension, it really was. I had no idea how much he got in retirement (he was able to retire early too) and we were discussing pensions one day and he showed me a tax letter. I was knocked sideways by his annual income in retirement from his company pension. Properly shocked. Because my mum had never worked most of her life he said he was worried about what would happen to her if he died as she would only get half his income to live off. He asked if we would make sure she was ok financially, as we had been left a fairly large amount of money from his sister. I explained that that money would be going towards building up my own measly pension and towards our children's university costs and first house etc, and that my mum's income would be more than either I or my husband were actually currently earning! I just laughed and said "Er, I think she will be ok for money, Dad".

They don't get it, the differences are too much. I've had the whole "well, yes, housing WAS a lot cheaper, then, but the interest rates were massive. We had to make cut backs". They don't seem to understand that these days both people in a couple need to work full time to afford even a basic small house, with long mortgages, and if interest rates rose to that extent they would be fucked as they're already paying everything they have towards housing, because the monthly costs are already massive because of vastly overpriced housing.

I think it's unfair to expect them to get it, though, really. How can they unless they've led a very varied life and mixed with lots of different parts of society? I would just keep repeating "well, I'm glad things were nice for you like that but things are very different these days." Just repeat and repeat and shut it down and change the subject.

As for Grandparents not helping with grandchildren, I think some of this is due to people having children later and later these days. My Mum was 23 when she had me, and I had my 2 children aged 27 & 28. So, she was a young Nanna, and could babysit with ease. My sister had children in her 40's. My Mum would babysit, but found it so much harder at 70 than she did in her 50's. I think my sister was annoyed by this, but you have to be realistic. Op's Mum is 80. How old are the Op's children? I don't think it's realistic whatsoever, to ask an 80 year old to look after children. People are allowed their dotage.

You criticising a woman in her 80s for not helping you enough and spending too long doing dishes and laundry.

I am baffled that our culture produced a whole generation of women who lived in a bit of a bubble - certainly like that for my mom and her friends. Not sure the value of it at all!

I don’t know why you’re baffled. After WW2 when women had kept the country running for six years, all the men came back, took the jobs and shoved them back in the kitchen. In the 1950s/60s a lot of men took pride in their ability to keep their wife and family on one wage. My dad was one of them.

Op my mum is a very very fit 74 year old. My dad and her recently flew 5hrs to where my sister lives and together looked after her childern who were about 3, 5 and 7 for over a week while my sister and her husband went to an overseas wedding for a week.
But I think you are being very unrealistic expecting your 80 year old mother to help with childcare.

@Pumpkinseedpesto

You criticising a woman in her 80s for not helping you enough and spending too long doing dishes and laundry.

To be fair to the OP, I suspect they tried too hard to hide some details and ended up bodging the ages. If the OP’s mum is in her 80s and her kids left when she was 48, that means the OP is in her forties herself and her kids are likely (might be a generalisation, right enough) old enough not to need childcare. I suspect the mother is actually younger than the OP is letting on.

You ought not to be thinking this way about your Mother. and comparing her to your way of life and thinking. It was the norm in the oldie days, to stay at home with your children, and usually it was not a problem for the Husband of the family, as children and a Husband/partner, benefited from a Mother at home, in many ways. Your Mother no doubt, will know all about the life styles of many women today, with all the rushing about and the stress factors in life, as lots of women have to go out to work now..

But an older parent, is not responsible, or has to help their adult offspring's, in whatever life they have chosen to have.

You sometimes read about Sahm's on here, who say that they can't cope with being ay home, with a baby, and toddler day after day, and they can't wait to get back to work, and then the kids are sent to nursery and childminders, The mind boggles, as to why they produced any children at all. And then some back to work Mothers, are stressed again, because of work demands, commuting, and still having to do all things at home.

‘One would think she'd be a bit more giving about it, seeing as she didn't really make that money herself, but that's another story.’

OP - Bottom line is - it’s her money, not yours. Your parents are not obliged to give you any money. It would be nice if they did, but you should not expect it or factor that into lifestyle choices that you have made (without her agreement), unless your parents have explicitly told you that they will help to financially support you as a grown adult.

I have not received and do not expect any financial support from my parents as an adult. Especially since their parents were 1st generation immigrants who worked and struggled to make ends meet in the UK, having been invited to leave their homes and families in the colonies to help build back the UK after WW2.
They had no choice but to be working class and almost all of these Mothers worked back then.
My generation has benefited from our Grandparents and parents hard work and work ethic, which has resulted in some of us becoming mc and, therefore, being in a position to finally create generational wealth to be able to pass onto to our children and future grandchildren.

You do know that a lot of companies fired women once they got married? It happened to my mother in the 50s. She did manage to find another job but not in her 'career' and she had to stop working when she had children. She managed to find a job as a TA once we were in school.

A lot of people have expressed surprise to both her and my dad that he allowed her to work.

I don’t know why you’re baffled. After WW2 when women had kept the country running for six years, all the men came back, took the jobs and shoved them back in the kitchen. In the 1950s/60s a lot of men took pride in their ability to keep their wife and family on one wage. My dad was one of them

Exactly! The lack of awareness of some younger people is astounding.

I don't get your issue with your mum not working, my mum was mostly a SAHM and I'm so glad she was there for me all that time. I feel really privileged that she wasn't forced to go out to work to keep a roof over our heads. I think it's sad that you resent that she had such an 'easy ride' as you put it - it makes you sound jealous and bitter to me. It's even more strange that she's in her 80's and you're still upset by this and still don't accept that you just have had different lives.

It's frustrating OP but you won't be able to change anything. My mum is similar. She has a professional qualification and did work but very part time as soon as she married. Husbands and homes needed to be looked after you see.

She is appalled that I have children and work FT and is positively outraged that I earn considerably more than my husband. Some of the views she has expressed are:
Men should get paid more because they are more likely to have a family to support.
Pay rises and promotions should be commensurate with age. Experience and merit doesn't seem to come into the equation.
When a woman has children she only needs to turn up at her job when it suits her and her employer will just have to understand.

Women should only work PT when they have children and if they need more money they should just "find a PT job that pays the same as a FT job". (Oh, if only!)
Utterly bizarre to me but makes perfect sense to her!

If the OP’s mum is in her 80s and her kids left when she was 48, that means the OP is in her forties herself and her kids are likely (might be a generalisation, right enough) old enough not to need childcare

Not necessarily! My SIL is 52 and has kids aged 7 and 4. My sister is 47 with kids aged 8 & 4. Plenty of women are having children well in to their 40's. It would follow that they won't get much help from elderly parents. My Dad would not be able to babysit my sisters children, as he can't stay awake long enough. My Mum did babysit one day a week before she died, but it wiped her out for a few days afterwards.

@ILoveJamaica I quite agree with you. My grandma was 23 when mother was born; mother 23 when I was born - grannies was therefore 46/7 when I was born and perfectly happy to have me nearly every weekend and I lived with my grandparents pretty much between 16 and 18.

I had my first at 35 and mother and MIL were 58ish (mother by then looking after grannie and MIL still working and 250 miles away).

I am 61 and our DC are 23 and 26. I have a feeling they may start earlier than DH and me but I still reckon I'll be 65 or thereabouts. I still work full-time but have a very back and don't think I could physically look after an energetic toddler all day. Occasional babysitting and emergency childcare yes but regular all day childcare no. Our means are such however that DH and I have already discussed offering help with the cost of childcare equivalent to one day per week per child which we think is fair but actual physical help, I don't think will be possible. Especially if our mother's who are presently 84 are alive when we become grandparents as they will have to be our first priority.

OP - Bottom line is - it’s her money, not yours. Your parents are not obliged to give you any money.*

This true but I think it's a very black and white selfish view. I hope you know it works both ways.... if OPS mother needed any type of care and she became not so "fit" I hope she wouldn't expect anything from OP in return.

Family isn't just about the money it's the thought behind it there's no way if I had a DD I could stand by and watch her struggle knowingly as I know what it like to be a single parent myself

@Pumperthepumper
‘Why didn’t he get a vasectomy and insist on condoms? Or abstinence? For someone who definitely didn’t want more children, he sure was very passive in them magically appearing.’

Valid questions, but I don’t have that sort of detail. I didn’t probe further and ask those sorts of questions at the time, as it would have been disrespectful of me to ask as their Niece in my late teenager years - mid 20’s. I was aware of and heard some of these family conversations, but it was not my place to challenge them.

My late MiL never did a day’s paid work in her life, brought up her children and managed her house with lots of help (paid and family). After FiL died, she lived on a pension of £40kpa, not one penny of which she had paid into. She never helped us or DH’s siblings with childcare, as she was too busy going on holiday, playing golf or just didn’t want to. That’s the way it was, no point breeding resentment about it. MiL was funny and kind, but not generous in the sense of sharing or giving anything of herself and certainly expected to be taken care of. The thing that surprises me is not her experiences, but that I have women in my circle and of my age (50s), who live like that too.

[quote HadEnoughofOtherThreads]@Pumperthepumper
‘Why didn’t he get a vasectomy and insist on condoms? Or abstinence? For someone who definitely didn’t want more children, he sure was very passive in them magically appearing.’

Valid questions, but I don’t have that sort of detail. I didn’t probe further and ask those sorts of questions at the time, as it would have been disrespectful of me to ask as their Niece in my late teenager years - mid 20’s. I was aware of and heard some of these family conversations, but it was not my place to challenge them.[/quote]
No, but maybe keep them in mind before you slag your aunt off on the internet for being a wicked self-impregnater.

dongke - not sure what your problem is.

Believe me redundancy pay is a relatively new concept. My father was made redundant / laid off - there was no redundancy pay. Life was hard for a while. My father ended up as a teacher - no gold plated pension there after working overseas for many years.

The point being over 14 years you can accumulate a pension and as to my nieces - lot of very good timing and common sense with dips and peaks in the stock market.

You sound bitter and resentful.

@MintJulia

I'm not so sure I'd want her life.

My mum was forced to give up her civil service job when she married in 1948. She was then a SAHM until 1970 but during that time she had to ask her husband permission to spend anything, had no right to make any decisions, was required to do all the housework (no washing machine, no dishwasher, no ready meals, cooking for 7) and put up with an abusive unpleasant husband. And because she had 5 children, she had no choice, there was nowhere to go, no way she could leave or earn a living.

Only when he was in failing health did she manage to take a job, because by then he couldn't stop her, but with 20 years out of the workplace, and needing school hours, she became a school cook.

You say your mum remarried quickly. Was that through necessity?
Not nice. Perhaps try to see your advantages, your independence, you'll never need to wash clothes by hand. You don't need to rely on anyone.

I agree totally with this!

If you made allowance for my abilities, me managing to kick a ball 20 yards up a park would be "on a par" with Marcus Rashford's most brilliant performance.

Crap example.

If you didn’t make an allowance for my 12yo daughter’s abilities, you’d consider her lazy and unfit for not being able to walk half a mile without having to rest, and it talking her half an hour. Which is what the OP is doing to her mother.

It's not about how much effort it tales the DM to do her dishes & laundry - it's about how she cannot seem to countenance how much doing a 40 hour week on top of that takes out of any working parent.

It is about the effort it takes and it’s about the OP not being able to countenance that at 80 years old, “busy” should be put in the correct frame of reference.

I think it is sweet that posters are trying to point out tha tthe OP's mum might actually have had a hard time of it, but I don't understand why she needs to have had a hard time?

And I don't understand why the OP, instead of rejoicing in her mother's good fortune, hates her for it.

Valid questions, but I don’t have that sort of detail. I didn’t probe further and ask those sorts of questions at the time, as it would have been disrespectful

Whereas blaming your Aunt, saying she forced or tricked her husband into having more children isn’t disrespectful at all?

My mum was older than yours and died a few years ago aged 89 but never had a paid job after she got married.
The 'marriage bar' also existed, formally and informally, till well into the 60s -- many middle class women were expected to give up work in marriage and get on with having and raising kids. (Working class women of course pretty much had to continue working, my DH's mum had various part time and evening shifts as soon as he was weaned.)
However, my mum had an even easier life than yours, she moved abroad for 30 years and had servants, both live-in and daily, a cook, ayah, and 'houseboy' etc at various times. She had a very active social life which revolved around 'the Club'.
I have always worked - I may envy her life in some ways i don't resent her for it. That would be pretty pointless -- It was just how it was. Besides, that weird quasi-colonial life we lived no longer exists.
Later, she was an excellent grandmother to our DC and her help was invaluable. I wish I'd told her that more often before she died.

@Rkyii55

Rkyii55
*
OP - Bottom line is - it’s her money, not yours. Your parents are not obliged to give you any money.*

‘This true but I think it's a very black and white selfish view. I hope you know it works both ways.... if OPS mother needed any type of care and she became not so "fit" I hope she wouldn't expect anything from OP in return.

Family isn't just about the money it's the thought behind it there's no way if I had a DD I could stand by and watch her struggle knowingly as I know what it like to be a single parent myself’

I agree 100%. DP and I work hard to give our children everything.

I was also a single parent with DC1 for a while, struggling to work PT whilst at Uni with a pre-schooler without any practical or financial support from either of my parents or DC1’s Father.