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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

999 replies

PhillyQueen · 02/10/2021 20:42

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

OP posts:
YouJustDoYou · 03/10/2021 09:32

Op, this will just become harder and harder and harder for you. YOU may love him, but he doesn't want you anymore. And even if he wants to stay married, the stabs of pain will just continue for you every time you see him smile when she messages him, every time you know he's choosing to spend time with HER over and above his KIDS, not just you. He's choosing her.

Franklyfrost · 03/10/2021 09:39

You either change the terms of the open marriage to accommodate a girlfriend or you break up. It’s not fair that you are being bullied into either of these options but it is a known risk of being in an open relationship.

It’s easy to love someone at the start of a relationship, so maybe you could stand your ground and wait.

Could you agree on limits as to how often he sees her?

Is there anything you want in exchange for him having a girlfriend? This could even out the power imbalance where he does what he wants and you have to agree to it or leave.

Personally I couldn’t deal with your situation. You don’t mention what your dh thinks about your relationship and yourself.

scarpa · 03/10/2021 09:40

@daisychain01

OP you do realise what you envisaged for your DH is actually very misogynistic. You're saying your husband can use another woman for sex but isn't "allowed" to be loving towards her. You're effectively barring her from getting anything enjoyable or pleasant from the interaction with your DH, no events, no memories just a quick bit of sex and off home to you.

That's deeply unpleasant. There is another sentient human-being involved in this, you know.

This is my feeling, too. Farming out the physical aspect of your marriage while denying any partners (and DH) something intrinsic to a lot of sexual relationships, in the emotional connection.

If this had been a polyamory type of set-up, where they were allowed external partners (as in girl/boyfriends), I could see it working, but that's the thing about having sex with someone - a lot of people like to have an emotional connection with someone they have sex with.

From the OP, it's why DH wanted this in the first place - he wanted that emotional connection and to feel loved and to have sex with that person, but he couldn't, so he was trying to replace the sex element elsewhere in order to replicate that feeling. And now he has found that combination of things, and that is incredibly sad for OP, but she can't be surprised, surely.

OP, you either both very seriously sit and talk about a polyamorous-style model (where emotional connection as well as sex is allowed), or you tell your DH you don't want that. And then he chooses which he wants, or you make the choice for him if you don't want to be seen as an option, but the problem is, you are now an option, in a way. He wanted 'love + sex', and he's getting half of that from you and the rest from someone else. He's not wrong for wanting that.

It might feel unfair that he wants to have his cake and eat it, and maybe that's what he is doing, but maybe he also just wanted what he considers a 'full' romantic relationship (i.e. including sex) in his life and that's no longer on the table with you, so he's trying to work out a way that he can hurt you the least while still being happy himself.

Anordinarymum · 03/10/2021 09:47

@PhillyQueen

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

It's a weird agreement when only one of you wants to go off and have sex with other people. It was inevitable that he would eventually find someone compatible with him sexually and in other ways and all done with your blessing.

Now you want it to stop because why? Because she is more attractive and younger and they actually like/love each other.

What do you have to counter all of this? Why do you want it to stop? Do you really really in your heart of hearts love a man who puts his dick into another woman?
After all of this time you have realised you could be losing him and now it has to stop?

Honestly.. it stopped a long time ago. I think you should show him the door. I can't see where this will be going unless he leaves you anyway. Be proactive and end it because it has ended only you are hanging on to something that does not really exist. He certainly does not care about you, and you are worth so much more than this.

PhillyQueen · 03/10/2021 09:51

I’ve read all of your messages, thank you. I cannot possibly respond to every point but I hear everything and don’t disagree with some of the seemingly harsher comments.

He’s already told me he wants to stay in our marriage and that he has no intention of stopping seeing this woman, both for sex and other activities. So yes, you’re right, I want him to stay too, for an awful lot of reasons, so I have to navigate a way of coping with his side-relationship. The sex part is far easier to cope with than the going to restaurants and holding hands in cafes because we agreed the former but not the latter. I have to learn how to deal with that and I don’t know how, hence why I posted here. It was surprisingly easy to deal with him having sex elsewhere. He didn’t devote a lot of time to it and I was happy we had found a solution and we were enjoying our lives.

Maybe I do deserve a different life but this is the one I want and I am very sure about that. I’m over 60, I don’t want to start again on my own or with someone else. I’ve had the financial means to leave for decades now had I really wanted to but I just don’t. Everything is fine, even the sex with other women was ok, until he met this one.

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

OP posts:
Sunshineboo · 03/10/2021 09:54

for what it is worth, OP i think you should play the long game - by that i mean;

  1. get your ducks in a row behind the scenes. get together evidence on paper
    of all financials and seek legal advice on how to handle a divorce for the best settlement and things you need to do.

  2. let this play out. don't try to stop it or limit it. this is effectively pushing him to her. make efforts to make his home life as normal as possible - a reminder if you like of what he likes about the arrangement being with you. you going on about this relationship is the exact opposite of that.

Quite often with a blossoming relationship, as things start to get more mundane as more time passes and that first flush of love goes, feelings change. If things are still good at home, there's a good chance that he'll choose the status quo, and you with it, over her. once things settle down, and that relationship ends or starts to dwindle, I would talk to him then about redefining what this means for you both.

I would ask you to think very carefully from your end. It is completely on realistic to think they'll find a partner to have sex with but he has no feelings for. And certainly you can't dictate how the other person feels for him. Other posters have covered this, may be part of this lifestyle going forward is you accepting that and drawing boundaries around this. so not taking calls in the home, clear times for seeing the new partner, being open with you about the developing relationship.

All this sound a bit grubby? then it's time
to leave. He is not comfortable staying in a marriage without sex. you are not comfortable with what it means to access physical intimacy outside the home in reality.

i really feel for you and i hope for an
acceptable outcome for both of
you. Thanks

Lovemusic33 · 03/10/2021 09:55

When you agreed to a open marriage did you agree to him having sex with other people and relationships with other people? I assume you just gave him the go ahead to get sex elsewhere? A emotional relationship is different and totally different to him just going off for a shag. I would be leaving him, the relationship is already over, he’s only staying because he wants the best of both worlds.

Sunshineboo · 03/10/2021 09:56

also - i think it would be good to
see a counsellor to help you with your feelings and to develop a way of living with all this

oakleaffy · 03/10/2021 09:56

@Arabelladrinkstea

But why not let him go with grace and love? After all, as you’ve said, you’ve had a wonderful life together and now he has the opportunity to be madly in love with someone, and you never know maybe you’ll meet someone too?

Personally I think YABU, if I really loved someone I’d want to see them happy

What bollox! ''If I really loved someone I'd want to see them happy?''

I assume you have never had a broken relationship.

@PhillyQueen ..Sadly he'd have had an affair wether you'd have agreed to an ''Open marriage'' or not..

It looks like he is in love with the other woman, especially of she is younger and probably well up for sex.

Sex does seem so important to men, A divorce will be very painful, but at least you will be free.

He won't stop seeing her, and it is pointless asking him to stop, as they'll only find ways to be together.
It's not easy.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 03/10/2021 09:57

@CrystalBuddha

I think your DH has been disrespectful in not being more discreet about his feelings for this woman - if he hadn’t been mooning over messages and acting like a love-sick puppy then you could have carried on as you were - assuming he has no plans to try and make a go of it with the other woman. Of course ‘feelings’ can be expected when your DH meets and has sex with another woman, that’s only natural and possibly naive to think that wouldn’t happen. But, the chemistry/love he feels for this woman doesn’t have to diminish the love he feels for you. It is very possible to be romantically in love with two people and with no plans to change the dynamics of the set up. I should know, I am your DH in my own marriage. I love my DH, we have a loving life together, but no sex, this was largely his decision and not a path I thought I would walk as I am a very sexual person. I have a DP outside of my marriage who I love very much and he loves me right back. (DP is also married and loves his wife dearly too) Do I want to be with DP full-time, no. Do I enjoy his company and enjoy non-sex activities, yes. Am I going to blow up my marriage over this - no. The main difference I see is that in order to be respectful to my DH I have to be discreet, so no mooning over text messages, no making it obvious how much I enjoy my DP, I don’t want my DH hurting or sad the way you are. If I were you I’d have a chat with DH and just explain that the way he’s going about this is making you feel insecure and jealous, could he please be more discreet and thoughtful. I wouldn’t enjoy an ultimatum from my DH and if it came to that I would feel really resentful towards him. There are lots of ways to love people, more than one person at a time even, so I wouldn’t necessarily worry too much about that aspect, but DH really does need to think about your feelings and protect you more than he has been doing. And for those posters who think a marriage with no sex is no marriage at all - not every single aspect of married life will be 100% compatible. I am not a companion or a flat mate, I am a loving wife who shares a life with their DH, we just don’t happen to have sex, it doesn’t make us ‘less than’ and I know plenty of couples who have little-to-no intimacy but aren’t just going to chuck the baby away with the bath water over one aspect that doesn’t function. There are worse things in a marriage than a lack of sex - also been there in the past.
Does the partner of your partner outside of marriage know her husband is sleeping with you?
whycantwegoonasthree · 03/10/2021 09:59

@BoredAndUnfulfilled of course - message away.

And yes, it is all about communication. Lots of it, and, as we laugh wryly about sometimes "another fucking opportunity for personal growth". There are lots of those.

The argument about time is a red herring though - one that people raise often "how on earth do you find the time?!"

Or, "a monogamous relationship is full time as it is." Except they're not though, are they. People have friends, hobbies, spent hours a day watching TV or on MN. Grin

It's more about how you spend your time. Most poly people I know are just real fans of relationship and connection and so that's how they spend their time. We spend time with friends, just like anyone else, it's just the boundaries between friends and lovers can be a bit more blurry.

It's a myth for most people that you fall in love with someone and then spend every waking hour with that person.

That said, I'm not saying non-monogamy is always easy, or doesn't involve work. Emotional work, sure, although I'd say that any functioning relationship requires that to do it well.

But in our case also a lot of logistical work. I passionately believe that love is infinite, and that the love my partners have for their other partners in no way diminishes the love they have for me.

(In the case of the OP there's a lot of people saying "he loves her now, not you" like it's a binary thing. We don't apply that principle to any other kind of love, so I have no idea why we do it with romantic love. I think it's entirely likely that her DH loves her as much as he always has. It's just that now he loves someone else too. It might Jean less time for the OP, but it doesn't necessarily mean less love.)

But back to time, just limiting logistics to my own immediate connections and their immediate connections, I have to take into account the needs and diary commitments of 7 adults (including my ex husband and his wife), my two kids, my 'nesting' partner's two university-aged kids, my other partner's three kids.

It's a lot of diary- wrangling and forward planning and absolutely the most ball-achey bit of non-monogamy.

If the OP decides to continue in her marriage, she's going to have to think about how she spends her time, and how they organise their time.

Those who have suggested it's a great opportunity for her to broaden her own horizons are absolutely right - either way. Not sexually, for her, it's clearly not her thing, but in terms of taking control over making her life the way she wants it, not just relying on "me and DH, plodding through the normal track of retirement without thinking too much about it".

Because it sounds to me like the root issue here is complacency. The OP and her DH have both taken each other for granted in different ways.

It's time to stop doing that whatever happens to this relationship.

Jobsharenightmare · 03/10/2021 10:01

My friend was the OW in this scenario. She was in a sexless marriage due to her ex-husband's abuse and the man had agreement to have sex only relationships outside his marriage. They started out meeting in hotels for sex but after 6 months of occasional meet ups I noticed she was telling me they were having breakfast together, then dinner before sex, then going for picnics and to the cinema so it was obvious it wasn't just sex then. His wife then suggested my friend become part of their family, but the man really just wanted a wife that wanted to have sex with him, not an open marriage and more than one partner.

No surprise they gradually fell in love and both left their spouses and have been happily married for 8 years, in a monogamous relationship as they both wanted.

I do believe many people don't leave an unhappy marriage until they have someone or something else come along, shining a light on a potential happier place that might exist. Until then, many people are just stuck in unhappy compromises and feel forced to compartmentalise their needs.

PhillyQueen · 03/10/2021 10:02

I don’t even know if OW has a current partner. I know very little about her, other than she exists, has sex with my husband and he is apparently in love with her. I did ask about her but DH said “no details. remember” which is what we agreed and have stuck to. I don’t even know if she loves him back.

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 03/10/2021 10:05

He has the best of both worlds if he stays at in the 'Open Marriage'..a wife who cares for him, and an exciting younger pretty girlfriend..He must be cock a hoop with this setup!

Not many women could tolerate it, but if you can... and it doesn't destroy you emotionally, then maybe just carry on.

Sadly a relative was in this situation {He was the unfaithful one} His wife thought she could ''Handle'' the affair, but the relative was so in love with the new woman he moved out..

I have asked if it was ''Worth it''? {Children are involved} and he said ''I was just so bored in the marriage''...and he still loved the ''Other woman''.

MollyButton · 03/10/2021 10:05

Supposing you and she were both seriously ill? Which of you would he rush to be with? Think about it.

Anordinarymum · 03/10/2021 10:05

@PhillyQueen

I’ve read all of your messages, thank you. I cannot possibly respond to every point but I hear everything and don’t disagree with some of the seemingly harsher comments.

He’s already told me he wants to stay in our marriage and that he has no intention of stopping seeing this woman, both for sex and other activities. So yes, you’re right, I want him to stay too, for an awful lot of reasons, so I have to navigate a way of coping with his side-relationship. The sex part is far easier to cope with than the going to restaurants and holding hands in cafes because we agreed the former but not the latter. I have to learn how to deal with that and I don’t know how, hence why I posted here. It was surprisingly easy to deal with him having sex elsewhere. He didn’t devote a lot of time to it and I was happy we had found a solution and we were enjoying our lives.

Maybe I do deserve a different life but this is the one I want and I am very sure about that. I’m over 60, I don’t want to start again on my own or with someone else. I’ve had the financial means to leave for decades now had I really wanted to but I just don’t. Everything is fine, even the sex with other women was ok, until he met this one.

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

That is a hard question because I would not put up with it but that is me and not you. He agreed to some things but now he has feelings for the other women he has reneged on everything. Perhaps you need to discuss the boundaries again in order for you to feel more comfortable. Perhaps you need to ask him where he sees this going? I don't know how you can live like this and feel for you. I don't believe you look like her grandmother. I expect you feel like that because you know he wants her. Maybe you should concentrate on you a little. Look after yourself - reinvent yourself even. You know, despite what you say you are important and special and worth more.
youvegottenminuteslynn · 03/10/2021 10:06

@PhillyQueen

I don’t even know if OW has a current partner. I know very little about her, other than she exists, has sex with my husband and he is apparently in love with her. I did ask about her but DH said “no details. remember” which is what we agreed and have stuck to. I don’t even know if she loves him back.
So the agreement was 'no details' but he dropped the bomb he was in love with her? Not very kind of him is it?
PhillyQueen · 03/10/2021 10:08

I asked him if he had feelings for her, expecting him to say no. He didn’t say no.

OP posts:
whycantwegoonasthree · 03/10/2021 10:08

@PhillyQueen - "no details" isn't working though is it. If you want to explore the possible ways forward from here you're going to have to start communicating openly with each other.

No decisions without information, is a pretty good mantra.

You currently don't have any, so how can you possibly know what you want to do next?

And if your DH is trying to avoid a difficult conversation then you need to point out that that's just not an option any more.

Fernando072020 · 03/10/2021 10:08

Op, I feel for you, it does sound like he broke the terms of agreement to have an open marriage but he also can't stop his feelings.
The reality is this is now causing you hurt, so if DH doesn't stop this affair (which is not just sexual but also emotional) then I think you're going to have to leave him. It's not fair for you to feel this hurt every time she's around - that wasn't what you walked into and your DH is being incredibly unfair.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 03/10/2021 10:13

@PhillyQueen

I asked him if he had feelings for her, expecting him to say no. He didn’t say no.
And he said that yes he loves her and that they've been doing stuff outside of sex and he wants to continue doing so?

So it's not 'no details' anymore as he's given you plenty of details. Enough that you've found her on social media.

So I don't get why he's still saying the rule is 'no details'?

CrystalBuddha · 03/10/2021 10:14

@youvegottenminuteslynn Yes his wife knows about me, DP was single when we first got together, she's known about me from the start as I was 'here first'

user1471538283 · 03/10/2021 10:14

I would get everything sorted out because it sounds like he is in love with her. I know you dont want to start again but you might have to if he leaves.

ElspethFlashman · 03/10/2021 10:15

What has happened, is that he's got himself a bona-fide mistress.

What may be worrying is that a mistress isn't just for sex, but also for emotional comfort.

Traditionally in these tales, the wife is treated more as a colleague. You talk about the events of the day and about your mutual friends and about your indigestion, but that's as deep as it goes.

You will have to see if it progresses that way or not.

At the moment, do you have much emotional intimacy? As in soulful chats?

Subbaxeo · 03/10/2021 10:17

I know if my partner made it clear they found sex with me unpleasant, I would be delighted if I found a man who made me feel loved, desired and enjoyed intimacy. You can’t really blame him for wanting a connection with someone when he’s denied that in his marriage. So the way to deal with it is to suck it up. Sexless marriages can work but only if you’re both content with it. He obviously isn’t and you seem to think he can use a woman like a prostitute and act surprised when he has feelings for the woman he’s having sex with. Most people want sex as part of a loving relationship not just something to scratch an itch.