Unappreciative 15 year old DD

[Workinghardeveryday]

I have 3 kids, dd15 and ds10, dd10.

My eldest doesn’t lift a finger to help around the house, she will clean her room about once a week.

Leaves a trail of mess wherever she has been ie, after washing her hair bathroom covered in conditioner, bottles everywhere, conditioner on wall mirror etc. Mugs and plates left wherever she has been, doesn’t even take her plate away from the table after tea.

I am fed up of it. I am fed up of feeling like a maid with no thanks. I have tried and tried to get her to help and pull her weight and she doesn’t.

On top of the above she is so rude!!! No manners, doesn’t make an effort to be friendly if she is that way out which is most of the time. Looks at me like shit.

Yesterday she was having a bad day and txt me about it. I wanted to do something nice for her so made her Brownies which are her favourite. Made the mixture, went to get baking paper and all gone, same with tinfoil (she used it all for something and never said). Had to go to the shop with ds10 who was off school poorly.

Anyway, she came back from school and sat in garden with her bf. I asked them both if they would like a Brownie and I had made them for her to cheer her up. She bit into it and pulled a disgusted face, said they weren’t cooked and horrible. Bf didn’t try his because of that.

May I add I make these a lot and she loves them. They were definitely cooked absolutely fine.

I was so hurt. It was the final straw. She knew I would feel humiliated in front of her bf which I did. She made me feel stupid, she does it a lot. I even said to dp I feel bullied by her.

What do I do to make her nice?!! It’s not a teenager thing. She has always been like this.

I love her with all my heart but I just don’t think she is a nice person most of the time. She bully’s ds too which I am constantly talking to her about.

I am fed up with it all. Any advice?

I have a 17 year old DD and a 13 year old DD....mine are exactly as you describe.

You simply CANNOT take it personally. Their brains aren't fully developed...they lack empathy still and they do love you...they just don't always show it.

Don't buy into her behaviour....I laugh at mine a lot as a way of coping. For example, not in a mean way but I take the mick a bit.

Best thing I did was grey rock the bad behaviour please don't take it personally I went through exactly the same with my dd she is a much nicer person now 💐 you don't deserve it says more about her craving a brownie now lol xx

I have a 15 year old too.
I try to create conversations with her and it's hard work. Her dad talks to her with no issue. Same with the mess. She will say she will tidy her room and doesn't. I am thoroughly embarrassed by the state of it and there is no way I can clean or hoover because it's a pig sty.

My advice is don't take it personally and don't put up with it.

So don't get upset but call her out every single time. Avoid the big "you never" or "you always" accusations just train her repeatedly - please do this, why did you leave that there, why are you being rude to me etc. Calm and consistent.

It'll pass. It's a horrible age.

Thing is though she has always been like this since she was about 4/5. She can be really cruel, for instance on Tuesday night she did a test in her room, photoshopped it to be positive and sent me it. I am CEV so she knew this would majorly panic me. She got satisfaction out of me panicking.

Dp has grounded her. She has never been grounded before. He’s fed up of her attitude too. The other night she wanted something from the shop (10 minute walk). He gave in and gave her a lift as usual. She had a big rant at him because he didn’t park closer to the shop. We are talking 4 small shops away. No ‘thank you’etc.

Her bedroom carpet is ruined. Straightener burn marks all over it. She hates her room, it’s too big apparently!!! How ungrateful.

She breaks everything she touches, no regard for anything that isn’t hers. Brand new kitchen, not even cooked in it, big scratches on work top where she chopped up crayons. Brand new bathroom, basin cabinet ruined where she has soaked it in water over and over. All new furniture in her room ruined with burn marks from straightener. Broken dyson from the one time she did her room. Breaks her phone charger regularly and takes someone else’s.

Sorry for the rant. I am just so tired of it all

What are the consequences of the destruction? She wouldn’t keep on doing it if she had proper consequences. If her room is too big(!?) and she moans about it I would make her swap with the sibling who has the smallest room. Every time she broke something I would be making her sell something/giving up her money to replace it. You can’t make her be nice, but you can refuse to do things for her if she doesn’t ask nicely or moans about it.

I know, I couldn’t believe it when she came out with her room is too big!! I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

As far as consequences, we take her phone. It totally devastates her. It works, she changes her attitude straight away. After a few hours of getting it back she is back to square one.

@Workinghardeveryday

Thing is though she has always been like this since she was about 4/5. She can be really cruel, for instance on Tuesday night she did a test in her room, photoshopped it to be positive and sent me it. I am CEV so she knew this would majorly panic me. She got satisfaction out of me panicking.

Dp has grounded her. She has never been grounded before. He’s fed up of her attitude too. The other night she wanted something from the shop (10 minute walk). He gave in and gave her a lift as usual. She had a big rant at him because he didn’t park closer to the shop. We are talking 4 small shops away. No ‘thank you’etc.

Her bedroom carpet is ruined. Straightener burn marks all over it. She hates her room, it’s too big apparently!!! How ungrateful.

She breaks everything she touches, no regard for anything that isn’t hers. Brand new kitchen, not even cooked in it, big scratches on work top where she chopped up crayons. Brand new bathroom, basin cabinet ruined where she has soaked it in water over and over. All new furniture in her room ruined with burn marks from straightener. Broken dyson from the one time she did her room. Breaks her phone charger regularly and takes someone else’s.

Sorry for the rant. I am just so tired of it all

Yeah this is unacceptable. I'd be removing her straighteners; she clearly can't use them responsibly so take them off her - assuming she didn't buy them herself. I did this to DD14 who kept leaving them on. They actually turn off after a period of no use but the switch is on so you can tell they've gone off automatically. Continuously breaking chargers? Then she doesn't get to take anyone else's and she can pay for a replacement for herself. I also wouldn't be giving her a lift to any shops etc if she's going to be ungrateful. If she challenges you, just explain that you're sick of her attitude and behaviour. She's still a child living in your house, you shouldn't feel bullied by her.

That said, some of her behaviour sounds typical of a teen; the shampoo and conditioner everywhere after a shower, plates and glasses left laying around etc. I just ask mine to clear it up - I once got a huff to which I went off on one about how I don't work all day, be everyone's cook and cleaner to then have to clear up after their deliberate mess. It's hard and I still have to ask or remind them all the time but now mine don't moan at me for it!

Some of it is normal teen rudeness, and the mess is fairly standard too, not that it means you should tolerate it.

The thing she did with the test (altering it to make it look positive) was just a shitty thing to do. No excuse. Just shitty. And cruel.

I sometimes wonder if there is something wrong with her. For instance, say something is on the tv that is really sad, someone with a disability etc, she finds it funny. It’s not that she feels sad so tries to mask it by laughing, she genuinely thinks it’s hilarious. Will share pictures with her friends of people with disabilities. If there is something sad about an animal that is completely different and she does look sad.

She isn’t affectionate with anyone only her bf. She hasn’t given me a cuddle in years even when we are getting along. If I try to give her one all light hearted it disgusts her. I bet it’s nearly 8 years since she wanted a cuddle!! She loves our dog though and is very affectionate to him.

I would ignore her room and let her live in a pig sty if she wants but laughing at disability is horrible and not on and I would come down on it like a ton of bricks and immediately remove her phone. It also sounds like she is mixing with the wrong group of friends if they are sharing this sort of stuff for larks. I might even consider flagging this up to the school.

I would be pointing out how immature her attitude is, and be telling her that seven year olds have more compassion. I would try and enrol her in some sort of volunteering programne for those less fortunate.

When my teens get bolshy like this I reckon they are ready for some responsibility just slightly above their capabilities and experience and that usually brings them down to earth a bit. Not easy in this Covid climate to arrange for this to happen but some position of responsibility is good where people are relying on them.

The thing is, her brain isn't fully formed yet, the amygdala bit, so she isn't thinking in the same way an adult would. She probably gives you a hard time because she knows you love her unconditionally but equally don't be bullied by her. In the situation with the bf and the brownie, I would have asked to speak to her privately in the kitchen, and say that you will not be treated so rudely when you had made an effort for her, and if she was not responsive to that, I would very politely but firmly ask them both to leave.

Really good advice from pp about not getting in to negative cycles of "you always do this" but be form, consistent, almost a bit cool with her and keep calmly asking "pick this up please", "please do this before tomorrow". Use humour too and try and be positive if possible.

Don't show any sign of neediness or chase her for any sign of affection. (But of course be there to listen and hug in a crisis.) It sounds awful but she is sub consciously looking for chinks in your armour! She is doing it to boost her own fragile ego. I would hazard a guess from this behaviour that she is finding adolescence fairly difficult although she won't show this side of herself to you, nd the Covid test prank makes her sound very young for her age.

Is she given responsibility for things? Why not hand over all of the dog care to her? Vet visits, cleaning up after illness, training, feeding, the whole thing?

And while this is going on op, step back a bit. Don't follow her up and down the emotional rollercoaster but make an effort i to feed your own soul. Do things that boost your confidence, make you happy and keep you calm. Don't be so available. There's no harm if one evening she asks you at the last minute to drop her off somewhere and you say "no sorry I'm out with my friends/Nordic pole walking/learning Russian".

Hang in there op. It's hell but she needs you. This too shall pass!

Some of this sounds like my son and some of what you do in response sounds like mine. You sound like a soft touch, like me and my husband. I had harsh parents so I can go too much the other way. I struggle with him being upset, so that doesn't help my sanctioning him. I had suicidal feelings a lot at that age, so I suppose it's where it comes from.

Is she like this all of the time? My son also 15 is on and off. Goes from lovely to hideous and rude. He is also disorganised and messy. He wouldn't do the pcr thing or laugh at disabilities tho.

How is she with her friends? Does she treat them well? The fact that she has a boyfriend is presumably a good sign. Her behaviour outside of the home might reassure you all is ok ans this is typical teenage stuff.

My eldest was terribly messy but never rude and shitty like my younger. He was always lovely, so this period with my youngest has come as a shock but I get the sense he is more typical than my eldest.

I

Fantastic post from hortibunda

4DD here …. Your post brings back a lot of memories. Parenting is bloody hard!

I think it makes sense to highlight to yourself all the privileges she has because she’s 15, eg phone, boyfriend coming round, straighteners, presumably more expensive clothes, money, allowed to cook independently etc.
Then think about which of these would hit her hardest if you withdrew them, from minor nuisance to the nuclear option.
Make sure that you and DH are on same page and would actually carry through.
Then have a chat with her at a ‘good’ time ( next time she wants something from you?) about the fact that privileges have to be earnt, they are not automatic and lay out a few basic ground rules. Tell her what will happen if she breaks the rules ( telling her the range of ‘consequences’ in your arsenal.)
But pick your battles … some of this is just not worth the fall-out, some of it is definitely worth coming down on.
It’s a hard time for you, but it will pass. You obviously really love her and care about having a good relationship so that counts for a lot.

What her father like? :/

Have you done a parenting course? They are brilliant. Would you do one?
Is your partner her dad?

Thank you all for the excellent advice honestly.

I will take things away for bad behaviour but also pick my battles!

Didn’t know there were parenting courses, I will look into these. Dp isn’t her dad but we have been together since she was 2. My ex husband lives 5 minutes walk away, remarried, doesn’t really bother with her at all. She has a great relationship with dp. She respects him more, probably because he doesn’t take any crap of her!

@Workinghardeveryday

Thank you all for the excellent advice honestly.

I will take things away for bad behaviour but also pick my battles!

Didn’t know there were parenting courses, I will look into these. Dp isn’t her dad but we have been together since she was 2. My ex husband lives 5 minutes walk away, remarried, doesn’t really bother with her at all. She has a great relationship with dp. She respects him more, probably because he doesn’t take any crap of her!

Sorry just had to jump back on when I saw this; our 14YO is actually my DSD but pretty much like DD (hence I didn't specify)!

Anyway, DH is very much like your DP - doesn't take any shit, is fairly strict and DD is great for him; you'd never hear a huff or a moan, will regularly sit with us, will give cuddles etc.

Her DM is the opposite...has always tried to be her friend, she has much more freedom at DM's and DM would go above an beyond to please her. To be quite frank, she treats her DM like crap. Will never cuddle her, looks at her with disgust, is very ungrateful etc.

Now whilst she's just as messy at both houses, (clearly, as teens are) we don't get that same rudeness and I do wonder if her DM had never taken the crap, and not always given in and tried to please her so much, whether her attitude there would be different.

I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

Then you tell her no, she made her choice.
It does seems there isn't alot of consequences. She didn't want to walk to the shop so someone gave her a lift, and I assume gave her money to spend in the shop, and she was ungrateful and rude.
On Tuesday night, 2 days ago, she spent time to photoshop the test in order to hurt and scare you, and today you spent all day prioritising making her brownies, including dragging her young brother to the shop who was too ill for school!

Posted too soon. Sorry.

But from the little you've told us she doesn't really have any longlasting or severe consequences.
I have disabled people in my family and it is absolutely appalling how she's behaving.
How long do you take her phone off her for?

Personably I used to get a large basket and dump their stuff in there of it wasn’t picked up - assumed unwanted and locked it in the car
I wouldn’t collect washing etc - if they want it washed it’s in the basket

I never took phones unless phone related issues

More natural consequences

No dressed and ready - no lift to school - they walk

Rude in the car? They can walk next time - and mean it!

You don’t have to make cookies or give lofts or pay for anything else - because of their rudeness

You are making a rod for your own back

@TheWitchersWife

I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

Then you tell her no, she made her choice.
It does seems there isn't alot of consequences. She didn't want to walk to the shop so someone gave her a lift, and I assume gave her money to spend in the shop, and she was ungrateful and rude.
On Tuesday night, 2 days ago, she spent time to photoshop the test in order to hurt and scare you, and today you spent all day prioritising making her brownies, including dragging her young brother to the shop who was too ill for school!

This. She doesn’t experience consequences. You say she respects your DP because he ‘doesn’t take any crap from her’ yet you also say that after he grounded her he then ‘gave in’ and gave her a lift to the shop. That’s not enforcing any boundaries or consequences. No wonder she behaves the way she does- she gets away with it.

Like the thing with the rooms- if she changes her mind, it’s tough shit. She needs to learn there are consequences to behaviour and choices, and that it’s not all about her.

Don’t take it personally and stop trying to make her like you, it will just push her away.

Do you talk to her about her dad being disinterested?

It's a pretty big thing however well she gets on with your DP

No advice but I was exactly like this at 15 and I hate myself for putting my mum and dad through it all.