Unappreciative 15 year old DD

[Workinghardeveryday]

I have 3 kids, dd15 and ds10, dd10.

My eldest doesn’t lift a finger to help around the house, she will clean her room about once a week.

Leaves a trail of mess wherever she has been ie, after washing her hair bathroom covered in conditioner, bottles everywhere, conditioner on wall mirror etc. Mugs and plates left wherever she has been, doesn’t even take her plate away from the table after tea.

I am fed up of it. I am fed up of feeling like a maid with no thanks. I have tried and tried to get her to help and pull her weight and she doesn’t.

On top of the above she is so rude!!! No manners, doesn’t make an effort to be friendly if she is that way out which is most of the time. Looks at me like shit.

Yesterday she was having a bad day and txt me about it. I wanted to do something nice for her so made her Brownies which are her favourite. Made the mixture, went to get baking paper and all gone, same with tinfoil (she used it all for something and never said). Had to go to the shop with ds10 who was off school poorly.

Anyway, she came back from school and sat in garden with her bf. I asked them both if they would like a Brownie and I had made them for her to cheer her up. She bit into it and pulled a disgusted face, said they weren’t cooked and horrible. Bf didn’t try his because of that.

May I add I make these a lot and she loves them. They were definitely cooked absolutely fine.

I was so hurt. It was the final straw. She knew I would feel humiliated in front of her bf which I did. She made me feel stupid, she does it a lot. I even said to dp I feel bullied by her.

What do I do to make her nice?!! It’s not a teenager thing. She has always been like this.

I love her with all my heart but I just don’t think she is a nice person most of the time. She bully’s ds too which I am constantly talking to her about.

I am fed up with it all. Any advice?

Conditioner all over the bathroom - OMG they'd be in the bin and not replaced.

That though petty would calm my anger - why should I live with suppressed anger and upset - raising my blood pressure and stressing me.
I would probably turn off the internet too.

Just stop.

Mess left in the bathrooms? Throw it in her bed. Same with stuff she leaves laying around. Plates. Cups. Breaks things? Don’t replace them. Needs cash? Get a job.

Fuck that.

Treat her how she treats you. Be dismissive and unbothered.

You’re her mother not her slave, she needs to realise that. By accepting her shitty behaviour you’re enabling it.

Stop.

Agree with @MMadness,

She is behaving like a rude hotel guest.

Why is her bf coming over after school? What about homework?

And, agree, move her to a small room. And she does not get to change her mind, for at least a year.

You are letting her treat you like shit. You control her money and technology. All of it should be dependent on her taking age appropriate responsibility and treating you decently.

Schools control teenagers and keep them happy at the same time (at least good ones do). It can be hard but firm and consistent in the way.

You need to get tougher, not ‘maybe I’ll be tougher’.
She sounds horrendous! Stop trying to hug her, be her friend, keep this up, this will surprise her eventually and you need to surprise her. Tie in her pocket money with her getting jobs in, don’t give in, at the end of the week if she isn’t getting the full amount don’t give it even if she begs.

Sounds awful to say but if you care about her like you say you do then you need to be tough to help her. You’ve let her become like this and you need to help her before it’s too late.

Give her room to the child she's bullying and do not let her switch back ever. None of this "she will change her mind and we'll have to switch it back". Put some bloody boundaries in place

You think you are being a cruel mother by instigating some rules but imv it will be a loooooong time, even when she has passed her teens, before she appreciates you and treats you and your views with any respect.

You, for her sake, need to buck up. She is a horrid person at the moment and you are perpetuating this with your hands off approach.

@Workinghardeveryday

I know, I couldn’t believe it when she came out with her room is too big!! I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

As far as consequences, we take her phone. It totally devastates her. It works, she changes her attitude straight away. After a few hours of getting it back she is back to square one.

Your problem is this.. my ds does the same when i rake x box etc.. however she knows play nice she will have it back in a few hours. Not long enough to really bother her

Watch Mandy Saligari’s ted talk on Managing feelings. She talks a lot about the dynamic which is happening here. She’s a therapist and has a written some books about parenting teenagers too.

@TheWitchersWife

I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

Then you tell her no, she made her choice.
It does seems there isn't alot of consequences. She didn't want to walk to the shop so someone gave her a lift, and I assume gave her money to spend in the shop, and she was ungrateful and rude.
On Tuesday night, 2 days ago, she spent time to photoshop the test in order to hurt and scare you, and today you spent all day prioritising making her brownies, including dragging her young brother to the shop who was too ill for school!

This really jumped out at me too. I'm sorry to say it but it sounds like you've spoilt her and she is just so used to getting her own way now that she doesn't respect you at all. If you took a room off her for her bad behaviour and swapped it with a siblings why on earth would you give it back once she changes her mind?! You are letting her control everything. I've witnessed this sort of thing with a friend whose 14yr old dd sounds similar and they have always been far too soft on her imo. I remember days of turning up at nursery and her dd crying so she would just turn around and take her home! The rest of us would gladly hand our toddlers over and leg it, within 2 minutes they're having a brilliant time with the other kids. The problems are far worse now she's a teenager but I think it's quite hard to reverse years of repeated messages that ultimately they will get away with anything because they have a tantrum. Like you they try the phone confiscation etc to no avail as she knows she'll get it back once she's been 'nice' for a day. It's all just too little too late.

Agree with the poster above. It’s easier to be the kind parent, saying yes and fawning over our children. I struggle myself to be strict enough but I tell myself sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and it’s not all about being liked.

Your enabling her - she doesn’t respect you as she knows she can walk over you.
She’s rude - you made her cookies - she’s rude.
She’s rude - Dp took her to the shop 10 mins away - she’s rude!!
I didn’t read the rest. I felt annoyed at you.
She’s treating you like crap.
She’s spoilt!!!!!
Do reward bad behaviour.
Put sanctions on her - your the parents.

If this is real, OP, you must see there's something wrong with your comment about the room? "She'll just change her mind and we'll have to move everything again..." Of course you wouldn't. She's not the boss of your family. Actions have consequences and every child needs to learn them.

My 14 and 15 year old sons can be messy and ignorant at times, but what you’ve described isn’t just ‘normal teenage behaviour’. It sounds as though she is incredibly rude and disrespectful (particularly laughing at disabled / commenting on your hair etc) and needs very firm boundaries put in place.

One of mine also has asd and isn’t great at showing affection or empathy but he isn’t actively unkind (there is a big difference!) and if he was there would be a consequence (probably removal of Xbox or phone).

I agree that you’re enabling her attitude and behaviour (not saying you’re doing it deliberately) and the fact you’re frightened of doing or saying the wrong thing is part of it. It sounds really tough.

I really hope things improve after you’ve spoken to her. Maybe speak to gp or even the school counsellor if her behaviour persists.

Being firm now might make you unpopular with her but it’s best for her long term

(I have had to fake having a thick skin at times so my teenagers can’t see they are getting to me!)

Sorry my post should say *disabled people

@Workinghardeveryday

I know, I couldn’t believe it when she came out with her room is too big!! I would move her rooms but I just know she will change her mind and it will all need moving back.

As far as consequences, we take her phone. It totally devastates her. It works, she changes her attitude straight away. After a few hours of getting it back she is back to square one.

There's your answer!

You'd move her back.

You drive her to the ship because she moans.

Whatever she demands she gets. She gets rewarded for her behaviour so there is no incentive to change.

She moans the room is too big you change it and that's the final decision and action. If she hates it's she learns actions have consequences.

Stop trying to make her "nice". She is who she is. Once she gets real life reactions to her behaviour she'll decide whether she wishes to carry in behaving this way or not. But you can't change anyone. Only change your reaction to it.

And if she does something so cruel as fake a LFT again treat her as positive. Refuse to be in room with, car with her (so no lifts). That probably means you won't be going into her room to get washing etc so that won't be done.

Posters have mentioned grey rock and that's what I'd do.

Don't give her treats like brownies that give her ammunition to bully you.

And ignore people who say this is just what teenagers are like. I work with teens, have my own and have many friends with teens. Yes, a few can be difficult during the teen years but the majority aren't.

Teenagers can be assholes. But I also think the way we live now does them no favours developmentally.

In the past she probably would have been working and engaging with the realities of survival, which humans are equipped to do at 15. Instead she lives in a protective bubble where she can sulk and make a mess and sit in the garden with her boyfriend being rude to you with no consequences. It's just the way we do things now, but she will improve when she has to pick up responsibilities in a few years time.

Could she also be punishing you for letting her father leave (whatever the real circumstances) she could be blaming you. And angry with everyone else as well because he doesn't appear to want her.

Feeling sorry for herself and hard done by.
Letting this run isn't a good thing for her.

She sounds awful. Does she ha be any undiagnosed SNs that would explain any of her behaviour? Some of it really doesn't sound right.

Re the damage, what consequences are there? I'd take away her hair straighteners. Not let her borrow anyone else's charger. Take away her phone if that works.

Have a schedule of chores. Be firm, yet don't react to her. Grey rock. It sounds awful.

And there are plenty of thoughtful kind caring teens out there so don't dismiss all this as her brain being immature. She's deliberately being horrible.

Agree with @ScienceSensibility.

You need to change things massively OP.

She will make your life miserable for a very long time, long into adulthood.

It’s difficult, OP, but as PP have said - good parenting also means saying no and imposing consequences. I’m not as good at it as I should be but I’m better than I was.

Children - including teenagers - need boundaries and feel unsafe without them. I don’t think she’s necessarily psycho - deep down (deeper than she knows too), I think she could be really scared because no-one is making the time and effort to say no.

I completely get it. But I always remember my dad repeating a line that a young adult child had said to her parents - possibly in some TV drama - but it struck my dad and it struck me. The line was “you didn’t love me enough to stop me”. It’s actually an act of love to weather the storms that come with boundaries without giving in. Accept that she may intensely dislike you for it in the moment. But our job as parents is to raise functional adults.

Like I said - I’ve been weak around this but have got stronger. A huge and very helpful realisation was that I could say to my DD when she objected to the new rules - “yes, I got that wrong before. This is what’s happening going forward.” And I’ve mostly stood my ground. I grew up a bit more myself - you have to grow up a bit more when you’re parenting teens.

The effort now will save you worse pain in the future.

Mine is 16 but similar in a lot of ways. It can feel like abuse sometimes. But she's not always like that and we do have good times together - we went for a walk together yesterday, for example. She will tell me she hates me etc but also hugs me and is reasonable at other times. My DH is softer with her than me and I'm constantly telling him he shouldn't be, although there is a balancing act for both of us in choosing when to ignore/ not respond and where she does actually need support and consideration. Her bad behaviour often actually masks anxiety or insecurity.

I agree some of what you describe sounds beyond normal - eg faking the test - but I'm not sure that couldn't be just another way of winding you up. Given her age and stage, I'd be surprised if anyone was willing to diagnose a personality disorder. My dd looked up BPD ( borderline personality disorder) recently and decided it described her. She has had a CAMHS worker for a few years (though dd generally refuses to see her these days) and I mentioned BPD to her on dd's behalf - she was dismissive and said she doubted it would be a useful diagnosis to get anyway.

I echo others on here - try to stay calm, ignore as much as you can, allow natural consequences to occur, don't go out of your way to please her, unless she's being respectful, don't beg her to change and be factual and unemotional when stating what you want / don't like. Broken record technique can work well - repeat instruction until you get compliance. My dd will go on and on about some issue she has too, but refuse to listen to advice - sometimes I just distract her as though she was a toddler until she changes the subject.

Thank you all for your advice, I honestly do appreciate all of it.

I am going to be harder - bathroom covered in conditioner (literally takes well over an hour to clean it up) she will do it. Phone gone until it’s done every single time. Her weakness is her phone. I will take it until she learns to be polite and clean her mess up.

I will not be bullied by my daughter. I am in control not her. I will man up and not allow her to treat me this way. Things have to change. I need to stop being a walkover.

I will always be there for her, I love her with all my heart! But it’s my responsibility to her to not let her be a spoilt brat!!

This is definitely NOT normal teen behaviour! Laughing at people with disabilities? That really is not normal. I'm a single mum to two very tall teen boys and they know that if they ever did that in my company I would go absolutely ape shit! I can be as soft as anything with mine but rude, ungrateful, nasty behaviour gets quickly stamped out. For their good and for the good of everyone around them.

She sounds as if she needs some very very firm boundaries. And it sounds as though she hasn't been given any and she's free falling. You owe it to her to come down like a tonne of bricks. Firstly, take her out of her 'too big' room. That's just ridiculous! She doesn't deserve that so just take at her word and she doesn't get to change her mind.
YOU need to start calling the shots. YOU need to take control. This cannot go on. I agree with the poster who said tough love is needed.

I'd sit down with her and have a chat about things. Say that the way she behaves isn't acceptable, but that you want to understand why she acts that way, how she's feeling, thinking.

I'd be emotionally supportive and try to address any specific things she might bring up. But the bottom line would also be that she is a part of the family, and needs to do her part. Make clear your expectations- specific things- and also what the consequences will be if she doesn't abide by that.

Then, the biggest thing, is to follow through, every time. If the phone is confiscated, she behaves and gets it back, but then is acting up again a few hours after, well then the phone is gone again, for example.

You need to be prepared for a lot of kick back, and probably 'I hate you', 'You're ruining my life,' 'It's not fair,' and any emotional manipulation she can come up with. Going by your posts, it sounds like your love for her (gorgeous and natural as it is) makes it hard for you to be firm and turn off your emotional response to her sometimes, but that's what is needed.

After a while, she should realise you mean business and it should get easier. And I'm sure in years to come she'll realise how crappy her behaviour was- we all cringe when we remember how we were as teenagers.

You are right, though. You are NOT her maid, and loving her to the ends of the earth does not entitle her to treat you like a doormat.

I do wonder if this is a strategy for getting your attention, even if it's negative attention.