CMS - Am I being greedy

[essieestherson]

I have been split from my ex for over 3 years, we have 3 dc who live with me and stay at his (at most) 1 night a week.

When we were together he was very abusive and slept with prostitutes, hence why we're divorced..

He has never paid the full amount of CMS due, always saying he can't afford it and then turning up in a new car, expensive new watch etc.. Every year I get an annual review from the CMS and I ask him to pay more, then he will bully and threaten me with going to the courts for 50-50 custody, or say he'll quit his job etc. So I always settle with whatever figure he suggests as I can't handle the stress of it all.

I have just had this years annual review which states that he has had another pay rise (now earning £85,000pa) and should now be paying me over £1200 a month, he currently pays £580. He has offered to up it to £680 but says anymore will bankrupt him. He has sent many abusive messages and refuses to talk anymore about it.

Yet he turned up to pick the kids up last week in a brand new Tesla...

My parents think I should just accept the £680 he is offering to stop all the nasty texts and threats etc.

Im just not sure what to do.. I work 3 days a week, but don't earn much and every month I am short of money. The kids have many clubs etc they would love to join but can't because I don't have enough money.

I know that £680 is a lot of money and way more then many get from CMS.. so I'm not sure if I should just let him get away with paying less, or fight further and ask for CMS to take the money straight out of his pay?

Another side note is that he is very unpredictable which worries me.. if I try and take the money straight out of his account he will probably do something drastic, quit his job etc - so we will struggle further.

I am just not sure what to do.

Have been trying to keep a log of it all since the beginning.. think I'd have quite a lot of evidence if it ever did go to court.

The kids are 13, 7 and 5

What evidence? What kind of texts etc

Just evidence of abusive messages, texts showing that he's only interested in 50/50 custody when CMS is being discussed. Messages of him telling me I have to sell the house and then right at the last minute refusing to let it go ahead until I agreed to 60-40 equity.

That won’t be sufficient.

You are an adult and so him telling you to do something is not abuse. Him changing his main at the last minute and you accepting it - is not abuse.

Even a text saying “I’m going for 50/50 to avoid paying CMs”, whilst very shitty, would never be brought up in court.

The courts don’t get involved in stuff like this.

In divorce cases they take emotion out of it and look at figures and interests of the children.

So if the eldest was desperate not to see him or he loved 80 miles from their school…. Then this is the kind of thing that is presented In proceedings

Ah really, I wasn't aware of that!

I’ve been through it with a very high earner
Albeit he was fairly reasonable

Can you imagine if courts got involved in reams of texts etc in divorce proceedings? It would never end.

Facts op. Facts.

Your consent order…. Was there nothing in it to allow for a variation?

So you need to approach this fairly clinically.

How do you know he earns that? Has he told you or was that what he was earning?

This person will not be reasonable and he has been clear as to his stance.

Do not get involved on arguing etc. Save your energy.

If I were you, I would see a solicitor and see whether anything can be done Re the previous agreement (or was this just done between you?)

At 13, your eldest can certainly have their wishes taken into account about how much they see him and who they live with.

Just because he says he wants 50/50 doesn't mean he gets it.

I would get some legal advice and see if a. there's any chance of revisiting the settlement and b. advice on keeping the status quo with contact.

Also, try the Rights of Women and Women's Aid for support/advice. While you're no longer with him, he's still manipulating and bullying you.

Thanks everyone.

The CMS letter I received stated that was how much he is now earning.. I assume it's accurate as it goes up every time I get a letter from them.

Greedy? The money isn't for you its so your kids can have a better life. Go for it and ignore his threats.

Phone CMS up and say he bullies you into accepting less and you need to use their collection service due to his ongoing abuse.

You've got another 13 years of dealing with his bullshit. You should really try and draw a line now and set some boundaries or this is it for 13 years. With very conservative pay rises he could be earning over £100k pa by then.

I had this exact same situation. ExH earned £134,000 and convinced CMS he earned £34,000. He constantly played the "hard up victim" card, pleading poverty, and then would do things like buy a new car, install a new kitchen, or book an expensive holiday.

You know your ExH is lying when he says that paying the right amount would cripple him. Why even listen to that drivel? He is a liar! He's quite happy to stiff his own children, that speaks volumes about him on the whole.

My ExH was was paying me directly, and as a form of control would be late with payments or miss months. The only way to deal with wankers like this, is to go through the CMS. This is money for your children, not for you, and you need to fight for them. Why on earth would you accept half of what they are due? They are missing out on clubs because you won't stick up for them and get what's due.

In the nicest way possible, you need to grow a backbone and stop bowing down to him.

Fwiw, it is now 15 years since I had to deal with all this, and my ExH is still a wanker towards me. We had DS graduation ceremony last week, and he treated me like shit.

Whatever happens your ExH is never going to be nice to you. He is most likely laughing his socks off that you're willing to accept half of what is due. He must be so pleased with himself.

He's never going to try for 50/50 with the kids. He won't give up his £85k job. Both of these things would interfere with his ability to be free and single, and shagging about. His dateability factor with women would go down the plughole overnight. Don't fall for this bollocks.

Put the claim in NOW.

Re the divorce and split of equity, if you have been the main care giver and the parent to go part time, then you should have walked away with about 70%. What about his Pension? You should have taken half of that as well. Is there any way to revisit this? You solicitor has failed miserably here.

Just to add, you don't need to deal with him at all, if you go via CMS. But should he send you any abuse about filing a claim, I'd suggest sending this reply :

"I have tried to keep the child maintenance payments between you and I, but as you know, you have consistently paid me about half of what the Government deems to be the absolute base line minimum amount. As you won't pay the correct amount, you have left me with no alternative but to open a case with CMS. If you keep sending me abusive messages, I will make sure that everyone we know, knows that you are trying to swindle your own children. If you want to file for 50/50 custody, or quit your job and sit on the dole, be my guest. I'm sure that will do wonders for your dating life, being stuck in the house half of the time with the kids, living off Aldi baked beans and pasta, with no money to take anyone on a date. Now fuck off with your angry messages and think about why you're being such a shit Dad"

Can you tell this is dredging up old anger

@essieestherson, you have had some very good advice on this thread.

I'm contributing to say that I've been through this with a high-earning XH. He couldn't threaten to go for 50-50 custody as he'd moved a long way away, but he was utterly vile to me. (Just the usual stuff - accusing me of spending the maintenance on gigolos, shoes and hot tubs.) My solicitor advised me to accept him paying 'under rate' for the first year, as I could then apply to the CMS for a variation of the Consent Order. Excellent advice, because boy was my XH furious . He couldn't believe that he, a Master of the Universe, had to obey the laws of the land!

I escalated things to Collect and Pay fairly quickly, and lost about the value of a bottle of wine a week in my 4% deduction. A good friend wisely advised me that it was worth losing that much money just to piss off XH . Honestly, it was one of the highlights of the whole horrible process to see XH's anger at being compelled to obey!

OP keep those texts and notes of events.

It builds up a picture of an abusive man who doesn’t want his DC nor has their interests in mind. They show he’s using the children as a method of continuing his abuse.

The evidence you have together would give CAFCASS food for thought if he ever went to court for 50:50 contact.

Also your DC’s wishes and feelings would be taken into account especially the elder two.

Don't bother engaging with him he will just use that to bully, threaten and intimidate you further. Just go down the collect and pay route.

You know it will get nasty so the more officialdom and less direct communication the better.

[quote AnInspectorBores]@essieestherson, you have had some very good advice on this thread.

I'm contributing to say that I've been through this with a high-earning XH. He couldn't threaten to go for 50-50 custody as he'd moved a long way away, but he was utterly vile to me. (Just the usual stuff - accusing me of spending the maintenance on gigolos, shoes and hot tubs.) My solicitor advised me to accept him paying 'under rate' for the first year, as I could then apply to the CMS for a variation of the Consent Order. Excellent advice, because boy was my XH furious . He couldn't believe that he, a Master of the Universe, had to obey the laws of the land!

I escalated things to Collect and Pay fairly quickly, and lost about the value of a bottle of wine a week in my 4% deduction. A good friend wisely advised me that it was worth losing that much money just to piss off XH . Honestly, it was one of the highlights of the whole horrible process to see XH's anger at being compelled to obey![/quote]
You sound spectacular! 😆

I switched to collect and pay too, ex must be spitting ad he has to pay a 20% admin fee to CMS on top of the child maintenance to me 🤣 it makes me chuckle every time I get a payment.

He's taking money off your children. It's what they are entitled too not you so it's not greedy to want the best for them.

I would go with cms and then if you want you can feel better by putting some away for the kids, accept what you need and save the rest for there Future :)

So you gave your ex 60% of the equity in the house and 100% of his pension ( which is probably worth more ) just so he wouldn’t be angry with you and difficult about the kids.

So how is that working out for you?

@IM0GEN isn't working too well for me...

Problem is I had just come out of a 8 year abusive marriage.. I didn't have too much support around me.

It was very complicated. I saw 4/5 different solicitors (paid for by my nan) who all said different things regarding my rights to stay in the house etc. I was sick of the abuse from him and the worry of what he was saying to the kids while they were with him. I didn't want them caught up in any of it. So I gave in.

This is why I want this time to be different.

Pass Go and collect £1200
He's bluffing. Call it op

@messybun101

Pass Go and collect £1200 He's bluffing. Call it op

Yip I agree...

call his bluff 🌸

Given that you were totally fiddled on settlement- I would just go for the £1200 and think bollocks to him

[quote essieestherson]@IM0GEN isn't working too well for me...

Problem is I had just come out of a 8 year abusive marriage.. I didn't have too much support around me.

It was very complicated. I saw 4/5 different solicitors (paid for by my nan) who all said different things regarding my rights to stay in the house etc. I was sick of the abuse from him and the worry of what he was saying to the kids while they were with him. I didn't want them caught up in any of it. So I gave in.

This is why I want this time to be different.[/quote]
Sorry if it sounded like I was blaming you. I’m not, I’m blaming him.

I understand why you did it, his abuse had worn you down over the years and you were used to doing as you were told .

But I’m just checking that you are aware you might be making the same mistake again - robbing your kids in the vain hope of keeping him sweet.

He’s a bastard and he will still be a bastard regardless of how much financial support he gives his children. He will still bad mouth you to the kids and his family and everyone else.

So your kids might as well get the money they are entitled to IN LAW.

99.9% of people who work in the insurance industry cannot go self employed. Everything is bought by procurement and often subject to national contracts. So he will have to pay up, unless he quits his job. But that would hard him ego and his lifestyle more than it would hurts yours.

Of course he could move abroad . But if he’s working for a company that has a Uk base you could still find him.

And TBH would probably be better for the kids if he lived abroad and never saw them. I know someone whose ex did this to avoid paying CS. And although it was bad in many ways and the kids did suffer financially, it was better to be away from his abuse and control.